Best PI machine for Salt beach

[dirtdigger1581]

I'm thinking about buying a PI machine for hunting the wet sand and shallow water(up to chest deep) of a salt water beach. I'm wondering what the opinions of everyone here are as to what PI machine is best for this application. I currently use an Excal II for the beach and it's been great, but I've heard there is a big depth advantage over the Excal when going to a PI machine. How deep can they actually get compared to the Excal? I don't mind digging a few more targets while on the beach if it gets me a few more goodies that are missed by the Excal. What's everyone's take on this? And what does anyone have experience with? Thanks for your help!

Happy Hunting!

-Nate

 

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[bigscoop]

So with everything else being equal, i.e., low mineralization and saturated sand & surf, at what point are we splitting hairs as far as which PI machine is best for the salt beach environment? At some point there has to be "adequate" VS "superior". The difference between these two, in the environment mentioned, can't be that significant.

And as per the Excal and WOT on the beaches I hunt on Florida's east coast......."It's ability to I.D. small gold and deep gold in the saturated sand and surf sucks"......and it absolutely kills me to admit that. Why? One of the reasons is because of the saturation of salt/water, the other reason is because the sensitivity has to be dialed down in order to attain smooth performance (limit the falsing caused be the highly conductive surroundings). Because of these issues, I have no doubt that I'm losing half of the machine's ability to accurately I.D. small and deeper gold in the saturated sand and surf. It will still find fairly deep bottle caps, junk jewelry, tungsten and stainless rings, cans, silver......but gold.....it just can't do it unless it's a real hunky piece, and even then the machine might null over the target or present a faint and/or broken signal.

Somewhere in one these beach threads I posted an image detailing that 80% of the gold I had found so far this year had been found on the upper slope of the beach. Why then, up until after the nickel test, had I not been finding a higher of percentage of gold in the saturated sand when I had clearly spent just as much time there? Answer.....the Excal and WOT can't find it and/or accurately I.D. it unless it's pretty shallow. This is what I've been painfully discovering and proving to myself. So under this light, DEW has a defined advantage over me in the saturated sand and surf.

 

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[DewGuru]

It's out there -- Keep in mind there is no "best" machine. What may be suited best at site a may not necessarily be suited best at site b. Treasure waits for no man, and treasure is where treasure is found. Also keep in mind you can't find it all. Yesterday, for me, was a prime example of that.

I made 3 hunts yesterday, 5 rings total. 1 fat gold, 3 silver, 1 junk. Last night in the weee hours, a pal and I were both swinging excals. I coughed up a gold, he got the coins. Another of our pals, went to that same beach this morning, same conditions, pretty much the same area, just a couple hours after we left, with his sand shark, and pulled up 5 rings, 1 gold, 2 silver, 2 junk.

The bottom is constantly changing and is never the same. What may not be exposed right now, may be within 2 minutes from now. Thats what makes it so entertaining, at least for me.

Many ladies say size doesn't matter ( ) -- I say it does, when it pertains to coils. Bigger gets better depth, but you lose some in the sensitivity. You want bigger gold vs small anyway --- thats where the money resides.

BTW - I asked pal his nickel count, and he was loaded. I nabbed 4 out of 10 coins last night on the 10" excal, auto sens, pin point.

 

[bigscoop]

It's out there -- Keep in mind there is no "best" machine. What may be suited best at site a may not necessarily be suited best at site b. Treasure waits for no man, and treasure is where treasure is found. Also keep in mind you can't find it all. Yesterday, for me, was a prime example of that.

I made 3 hunts yesterday, 5 rings total. 1 fat gold, 3 silver, 1 junk. Last night in the weee hours, a pal and I were both swinging excals. I coughed up a gold, he got the coins. Another of our pals, went to that same beach this morning, same conditions, pretty much the same area, just a couple hours after we left, with his sand shark, and pulled up 5 rings, 1 gold, 2 silver, 2 junk.

The bottom is constantly changing and is never the same. What may not be exposed right now, may be within 2 minutes from now. Thats what makes it so entertaining, at least for me.

Many ladies say size doesn't matter ( ) -- I say it does, when it pertains to coils. Bigger gets better depth, but you lose some in the sensitivity. You want bigger gold vs small anyway --- thats where the money resides.

BTW - I asked pal his nickel count, and he was loaded. I nabbed 4 out of 10 coins last night on the 10" excal, auto sens, pin point.

There are days when I find several nickels...just not deeper nickels in the saturated sand & surf. And "yes" I agree, that bigger coil hunts deeper, but it's ability to find and I.D. deeper gold, especially small gold, is severely impacted by that high conductivity of the saturated sand & surf. On the dry sand and upper slope I love the Excal and WOT, performs great! But it's what happens to that performance once you hit that saturated sand and surf that I don't care for. Take a tape measure, a few nickels, bury them and play with it.....you'll see what I mean. And, "pinpoint" with the WOT, for me anyway, is like trying to find a needle in the haystack. lol Just not used it enough I suppose.

 

[hobbit]

So with everything else being equal, i.e., low mineralization and saturated sand & surf, at what point are we splitting hairs as far as which PI machine is best for the salt beach environment? At some point there has to be "adequate" VS "superior". The difference between these two, in the environment mentioned, can't be that significant.

And as per the Excal and WOT on the beaches I hunt on Florida's east coast......."It's ability to I.D. small gold and deep gold in the saturated sand and surf sucks"......and it absolutely kills me to admit that. Why? One of the reasons is because of the saturation of salt/water, the other reason is because the sensitivity has to be dialed down in order to attain smooth performance (limit the falsing caused be the highly conductive surroundings). Because of these issues, I have no doubt that I'm losing half of the machine's ability to accurately I.D. small and deeper gold in the saturated sand and surf. It will still find fairly deep bottle caps, junk jewelry, tungsten and stainless rings, cans, silver......but gold.....it just can't do it unless it's a real hunky piece, and even then the machine might null over the target or present a faint and/or broken signal.

Somewhere in one these beach threads I posted an image detailing that 80% of the gold I had found so far this year had been found on the upper slope of the beach. Why then, up until after the nickel test, had I not been finding a higher of percentage of gold in the saturated sand when I had clearly spent just as much time there? Answer.....the Excal and WOT can't find it and/or accurately I.D. it unless it's pretty shallow. This is what I've been painfully discovering and proving to myself. So under this light, DEW has a defined advantage over me in the saturated sand and surf.

I cannot argue with the tests you have conducted in your conditions. You must be in an area where VLF's with monster coils have a hard time coping with mineralization. ( I will say one more thing about the test I conducted between the Excal with the WOT and the Sand Shark with the 8 inch...I had the sensitivity of the Excal set at BARELY over half. Long use in San Diego had proven to me that that was the most I could use effectively. Higher sensitivity was, in fact, counter- productive). Remember too the concept of "coin lines" and "holes". Dense items tend to congregate in certain areas...every beach is different...there are not necessarily detectable targets with high specific gravities everywhere on a beach.

If you have satisfied yourself that your Excal/WOT combination can't penetrate deeply in your conditions, your decision becomes easy: decide on a PI.
This statement is false: " At some point there has to be "adequate" VS "superior". The difference between these two, in the environment mentioned, can't be that significant. " It is vastly significant. The totally cool thing is: You can test it empirically by using the same method the best PI engineer in the world uses. You can see my previous post on this topic to see what I mean. You may decide to go with the Sand Shark. It has lots going for it. But if you get the chance to test a Sand Shark head to head with a Headhunter PI, you will see what I mean...the difference will become apparent...especially on those distant low conductors...
You will be able to look back on some of the posts in this thread and get a good chuckle...

 

[Craig-PI]

OK, let’s nip this “Pulse Delay” rubbish in the bud right now. The pulse delay argument is a red herring, started by Whites because the Sand Shark is eating the Dual Field’s lunch in sales – period. The Dual Field and the Sand Shark is basically the exact same machine as far as capabilities.

I found $2,800.00 (melt) in gold my first season with the 8” Sand Shark. The micro-processor and circuitry – in COMBONATION with the pulse delay, allow the Sand Shark to see smaller gold, deeper. Here is some of mine..

Terry... lets not nip pulse delay in the bud as its can be the difference between finding deep small gold and not... I'm sure the SS is a very capable machine but pulse delay does matter even if it doesn't matter to you... there are those of us it does matter to... take the time to do a little reading on all the sites about its importance.. I'll even share what your friend says on the Tereso website...

Even though the SAND SHARK is not capable of competing for the tiniest of metal targets, any normal-sized ring or other piece of jewelry is no problem.

Tesoro Metal Detectors - Official company web site with metal detector models for treasure hunting land or water.

I guess I can't post a link here lol...



The bottom line is its the hunter who makes the machine good not the other way around....

Where you have posted that a PI is 3 to 7" deeper than the Excalibur on the net is fantasy and dead wrong... if a PI is 1 to 3 inches deeper that is a lot... I know the capabilities of the Excalibur as I have owned one and now own the GT let me tell you on the beach they are top dog especially the iron infested beaches and in the water they hold their own but the PI rules there they are not iron infested.

 

[OBN]

Been to Florida several times, the depth on a stock Excalibur is Bad compared to Further North in the Mid-Atlantic states. In the wet sand one can get as deep as most PI's (PP mode n Amp)..But in the ocean water..she starts falling on her face. Quick...As far as a PI. I think every season hunter should have one, which? You almost have to live with one for a few years to know.


.

 

[DewGuru]

Again it boils down to what works best for one, may not work best for another. Rustys statement is a review on the beaches in his area (West US). I've clearly demonstrated (pictorially) in this thread:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/b...best-pi-machine-salt-beach-4.html#post2763992

That the Shark is more than capable of finding the tiniest of gold items, for me, in my area, Gulf Coast of FL.

My position remains the same... even if I were missing some "small" gold items, the bulk of "large" gold items that I find, far outweighs it (literally) and makes it a non issue for me.

Owning both an Excal (10") and multiple Sharks (8" / 10") -- I can confirm, in my area, the Shark is in fact deeper.

 

[bigscoop]

Terry... lets not nip pulse delay in the bud as its can be the difference between finding deep small gold and not... I'm sure the SS is a very capable machine but pulse delay does matter even if it doesn't matter to you... there are those of us it does matter to... take the time to do a little reading on all the sites about its importance.. I'll even share what your friend says on the Tereso website...

Even though the SAND SHARK is not capable of competing for the tiniest of metal targets, any normal-sized ring or other piece of jewelry is no problem.

Tesoro Metal Detectors - Official company web site with metal detector models for treasure hunting land or water.

I guess I can't post a link here lol...



The bottom line is its the hunter who makes the machine good not the other way around....

Where you have posted that a PI is 3 to 7" deeper than the Excalibur on the net is fantasy and dead wrong... if a PI is 1 to 3 inches deeper that is a lot... I know the capabilities of the Excalibur as I have owned one and now own the GT let me tell you on the beach they are top dog especially the iron infested beaches and in the water they hold their own but the PI rules there they are not iron infested.

I can't tell you how many times I've started digging a deep faint signal under my Excal, only to have that signal start nulling once I have removed enough saturated sand between the coil and the target, or once I have scooped that target out and placed the pile on top of the sand so I can sweep it. Happens quite frequently to me here on the east coast of Florida. This tells me something obvious about the Excal's ability in the saturated sand and surf in regards to deeper targets.

 

[Aka Nameless]

This thread delivers!

From my experience, from owning the Sand Shark and now the Infinium... the Sand Shark has nothing on the Infinium. Infinium picks up smaller items, that the SS doesn't even see, and is deeper on everything the SS does see.

Terry claiming that Pulse Delay means nothing, shows how much he knows... If I get 6 inches on a .5 gram gold ring at minimum pulse delay (around 10uS) on the Infinium, then turn the delay up to 3 (around 25uS), I get 1 inch on the same item... Pulse Delay is huge.

 

[hobbit]

This thread delivers!

From my experience, from owning the Sand Shark and now the Infinium... the Sand Shark has nothing on the Infinium. Infinium picks up smaller items, that the SS doesn't even see, and is deeper on everything the SS does see.

Terry claiming that Pulse Delay means nothing, shows how much he knows... If I get 6 inches on a .5 gram gold ring at minimum pulse delay (around 10uS) on the Infinium, then turn the delay up to 3 (around 25uS), I get 1 inch on the same item... Pulse Delay is huge.

BINGO !!! The infinium is a fine machine for sure. Keep in mind that some folks on this form maintain that they "regularly" find gold earring backs and small gold chains at 6 inches+ with a sand shark...

 

[Terry Soloman]

This thread delivers!

From my experience, from owning the Sand Shark and now the Infinium... the Sand Shark has nothing on the Infinium. Infinium picks up smaller items, that the SS doesn't even see, and is deeper on everything the SS does see.

Terry claiming that Pulse Delay means nothing, shows how much he knows... If I get 6 inches on a .5 gram gold ring at minimum pulse delay (around 10uS) on the Infinium, then turn the delay up to 3 (around 25uS), I get 1 inch on the same item... Pulse Delay is huge.

That is just amazing! You owned the Sand Shark for less than 50-hours before you sold it to a fellow that has found quite a bit with it according to your posts on Friendly. You bought an Infinium, but haven't found jack with it except your test ring, and you are an expert on pulse delay? LOL! I think even newbies can see through this cloud of confusion.

 

[Terry Soloman]

BINGO !!! The infinium is a fine machine for sure. Keep in mind that some folks on this form maintain that they "regularly" find gold earring backs and small gold chains at 6 inches+ with a sand shark...

OMG! The Infinium is a "fine" machine? Do YOU own one? LOL!!!!

 

[Terry Soloman]

You and I will probably never agree on this Craig, and that is allright. Rusty and Robert were both a little more than shocked when I finally made it to Arizona, for the Desert Sand Shark tests. They were both convinced I was wrong, until I proved I wasn't. How much did that picker weigh in at that we buried Robert? If memory serves, it was less than 0.5-gram..

I maintain that the Sand Shark can find ANYTHING the Dual Field, TDI or Infinium can - period. I also know with the 8" coil it is more sensitive to smaller gold than the Dual Field. It is just as deep as any other PI machine that costs $1,200.00 or less. I think THAT is what upsets so many of you. A cheaper machine is just as deep, and probably more sensitive.. Tough world we live in!

Terry... lets not nip pulse delay in the bud as its can be the difference between finding deep small gold and not... I'm sure the SS is a very capable machine but pulse delay does matter even if it doesn't matter to you... there are those of us it does matter to... take the time to do a little reading on all the sites about its importance.. I'll even share what your friend says on the Tereso website...

Even though the SAND SHARK is not capable of competing for the tiniest of metal targets, any normal-sized ring or other piece of jewelry is no problem.

Tesoro Metal Detectors - Official company web site with metal detector models for treasure hunting land or water.

I guess I can't post a link here lol...



The bottom line is its the hunter who makes the machine good not the other way around....

Where you have posted that a PI is 3 to 7" deeper than the Excalibur on the net is fantasy and dead wrong... if a PI is 1 to 3 inches deeper that is a lot... I know the capabilities of the Excalibur as I have owned one and now own the GT let me tell you on the beach they are top dog especially the iron infested beaches and in the water they hold their own but the PI rules there they are not iron infested.

 

[DewGuru]

Keep in mind that some folks on this form maintain that they "regularly" find gold earring backs and small gold chains at 6 inches+ with a sand shark...

Proof is in the pudding, which is posted all over this forum, well documented.
Don't hate. Just produce. Be glad to provide lessons. Bring cash, their expensive.

 

[hobbit]

Proof is in the pudding, which is posted all over this forum, well documented.
Don't hate. Just produce. Be glad to provide lessons. Bring cash, their expensive.

Bologna is .99 cents a pound at my local supermarket...
but I just realized I made a mistake...you said you regularly find thin gold chains at "average" of 12 inches with your Sand Shark...
by the way, are the chains generally connected to a slightly larger metal item? Like a pick-up truck?

 

[Craig-PI]

You and I will probably never agree on this Craig, and that is allright. Rusty and Robert were both a little more than shocked when I finally made it to Arizona, for the Desert Sand Shark tests. They were both convinced I was wrong, until I proved I wasn't. How much did that picker weigh in at that we buried Robert? If memory serves, it was less than 0.5-gram..

I maintain that the Sand Shark can find ANYTHING the Dual Field, TDI or Infinium can - period. I also know with the 8" coil it is more sensitive to smaller gold than the Dual Field. It is just as deep as any other PI machine that costs $1,200.00 or less. I think THAT is what upsets so many of you. A cheaper machine is just as deep, and probably more sensitive.. Tough world we live in!

Terry.... you get very defensive... proof is you having to show and talk about your finds whenever someone doesn't agree with you...

Where did I say the Sand Shark wasn't a good machine? I said in the correct hands its a very capable machine...

Is it as deep as my detector? as sensitive? I doubt it... think about what you are saying... the Dual Field is a 800pps machine the Sandshark is 600 pulses per second, the DF has a 15us (microsecond delay) the SS a 22uS delay, you use a 8 inch coil.. I use a 12 inch coil... you crack me up for sure...

 

[hobbit]

OMG! The Infinium is a "fine" machine? Do YOU own one? LOL!!!!

It must be a bitter pill that the Infinium is a better pure gold prospector than the Lobo Super Traq AND a better salt water beach detector than the Tesoro Sand Shark.

One thing, though. I wouldn't expect my Grandma to be capable of using the Infinium. She would do just fine with the Sand Shark, however.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Bologna is .99 cents a pound at my local supermarket...
but I just realized I made a mistake...you said you regularly find thin gold chains at "average" of 12 inches with your Sand Shark...
by the way, are the chains generally connected to a slightly larger metal item? Like a pick-up truck?

Nice job Hobbit, you just graduated. Now you are calling one of the most accomplished beach hunters in Florida a liar without ever having met the man. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, you were done then. Now you are just soiling yourself every time you type. Opinion is one thing. Uninformed, personal attacks and slander are tools used when there are no facts to present..

 

[Aka Nameless]

That is just amazing! You owned the Sand Shark for less than 50-hours before you sold it to a fellow that has found quite a bit with it according to your posts on Friendly. You bought an Infinium, but haven't found jack with it except your test ring, and you are an expert on pulse delay? LOL! I think even newbies can see through this cloud of confusion.

Lol you just make stuff up as you go, dont you. I owned the Sand Shark for 3 months, and put about 100 hours on it, I sold it and have no idea how much the guy that bought it found, he sold it a few months after buying from me... I've found more gold/silver with the Infinium, that I did with the Sand Shark... plus, I owned the Sand Shark during the summer which is a much easier time to find gold around here.

It's obvious that you get paid by Tesoro, or at least get good discounts, to talk up their products. I love my Tejon, but the Sand Shark is mediocre. I'd go as far as saying it's the worst PI on the market... but what can you expect from a 20 year old machine...

PS. I wouldn't have sold it, if it was the amazing machine you say it is. When I did testing on the beach and found that it barely gets 6 inches on a 2 gram gold ring, it was time to move on... my Infinium gets 6+ inches on a .5 gram ring in the sand.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I think about it all the time Craig, and crack up. The 10" Dual Field and the 8" Sand Shark are fairly equal machines. We simply must agree to disagree on this point. At our level, with the experience we have, both of us could out hunt the troll and his friend with Garrett Ace 350's! You and I both know the Pulse Delay is set on the Sand Shark at the best all-around timing, and that the power to the coil has been tuned to work in concert with that timing to find 14K targets as small as an earring stud, and shoot as deep as 20". I take a lot of grief because I NEVER deviate from my fight to stop senseless Tesoro Bashing - and that is exactly what it is. I don't attack other brands, I make my point. Just because we doubt something, that does not mean it isn't factual. You and I can disagree, I'm down with that. But I'm not down with the personal attacks others are typing in this thread.

Terry.... you get very defensive... proof is you having to show and talk about your finds whenever someone doesn't agree with you...

Where did I say the Sand Shark wasn't a good machine? I said in the correct hands its a very capable machine...

Is it as deep as my detector? as sensitive? I doubt it... think about what you are saying... the Dual Field is a 800pps machine the Sandshark is 600 pulses per second, the DF has a 15us (microsecond delay) the SS a 22uS delay, you use a 8 inch coil.. I use a 12 inch coil... you crack me up for sure...