Beale pamphlet written to express anger and frustration over Jeffersons hypocrisy

[bigscoop]

Again, where's the smoking gun that establishes that the Beale Pamphlet story was even an authentic tale of an actual treasure? Not say it wasn't, just curious as to why so many are so fearful to admit that the actual authenticity of the tale can't yet be proven. If someone screams hoax these same people ask, "Where's the proof of that?" But whenever someone ask, "Where is the proof that the tale is indeed legit?" these same people become immediately defensive and completely lack any proof to the opposite. Folks, before we can set out to solve any mystery we must first establish that the mystery is indeed real. To date all we have to establish this is the original tale in the pamphlet, nothing more. So either way, where is the smoking gun to either prove or disprove the tale? Answer; to date, after more then 125 years of endless and countless efforts, it still hasn't been found. How can one possibly draw upon any accurate conclusion without it? They can't, and never will be able to. Oh so sad, but oh so true. This is why legends and myths continue to survive and expand and grow, because there is no smoking gun to either conclusively prove or disprove the tale. So, let's forget about trying to solve this mystery and making all these fruitless claims until we can actually discover that smoking gun.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Again, where's the smoking gun that establishes that the Beale Pamphlet story was even an authentic tale of an actual treasure? Not say it wasn't, just curious as to why so many are so fearful to admit that the actual authenticity of the tale can't yet be proven. If someone screams hoax these same people ask, "Where's the proof of that?" But whenever someone ask, "Where is the proof that the tale is indeed legit?" these same people become immediately defensive and completely lack any proof to the opposite. Folks, before we can set out to solve any mystery we must first establish that the mystery is indeed real. To date all we have to establish this is the original tale in the pamphlet, nothing more. So either way, where is the smoking gun to either prove or disprove the tale? Answer; to date, after more then 125 years of endless and countless efforts, it still hasn't been found. How can one possibly draw upon any accurate conclusion without it? They can't, and never will be able to. Oh so sad, but oh so true. This is why legends and myths continue to survive and expand and grow, because there is no smoking gun to either conclusively prove or disprove the tale. So, let's forget about trying to solve this mystery and making all these fruitless claims until we can actually discover that smoking gun.

"Smoking Gun"...? NEWS FLASH!!! John W. Booth (KGC) had it!

 

[bigscoop]

Again....just more speculation without the smoking gun, more circumstantial evidence and convenience without any conclusive supporting evidence. You guys are still missing the point that is being made, one that you are actually helping me to make. Franklin, Reb, over the past twenty years how many possible solutions/theories have you supported? Why the change of heart, the continued uncertainty? Because deep down inside you are aware there is the possibility that you are wrong, because you are aware that you still lack the smoking gun. No different here other then I am ever aware that no matter how certain I personally am, I still don't have a smoking gun in any of it, and neither does anyone else. Researching history is fascinating but just because Bob knew Tom and they belonged to the same club, military post, lodge, etc., it does not substantiate that they were actually conducting any type of business together, or that they were even involved with each other in any type of secret business, etc. It proves absolutely nothing and we all know this. In order to establish this sort of thing you need conclusive proof of the claim being made, without it all we have is just unsubstantiated speculation, nothing more. To this very day "nobody" has been able to conclusively prove the actual authenticity of the Beale Pamphlet story, "nobody". And so, herein lays the problem, without a smoking gun you can make the Beale Pamphlet story into nearly any time period based solution you wish, however, you will never be able to prove it and you will never develop an accurate solution. And that is fact, not fiction. So, quit wasting your time trying to solve a complete unknown and instead spend that time searching for the smoking gun. If the treasure was ever real then that smoking gun is out there somewhere. Without it you'll never know the truth, and at best, you'll only convince yourself that you know a truth you'll never be able to prove or finish.

 

[ECS]

What exactly do you call supporting evidence? Robert Morris and his wife were real in the story. The Washington Inn or Washington Hotel were real. Hell Lynchburg, Va itself was real. What kind of evidence are you looking for because if you want to prove that the Beale Treasure Pamphlet is real or actually happened then you would have to find the treasure to make everyone believe...

Far too many treasure stories,legends,lore do contain real people,events,and locations to makes the tales seem plausible.Then over the years treasure writers add their speculations,and story takes on additional dimensions of supposed reality.That does not make the existence of a treasure real...but keeps the search going.

 

[bigscoop]

Far too many treasure stories,legends,lore do contain real people,events,and locations to makes the tales seem plausible.Then over the years treasure writers add their speculations,and story takes on additional dimensions of supposed reality.That does not make the existence of a treasure real...but keeps the search going.

Exactly. Just in this thread alone we have at least three or four people who think they have the right solution, or at the very least, believe they are on the right path. Our goal is to hopefully find the smoking gun in the end, but in reality, none of us can trace our steps back to a smoking gun that directed us on our different chosen paths. Obviously everyone can't be right, and we have all obviously taken different paths because there was/is no smoking gun to establish a single correct path. If there was we would all be moving ahead in similar fashion and on a similar course. So my original question/point was this, where is that first smoking gun? Answer; it is simply, and only, the pamphlet itself, and the pamphlet is far from a smoking gun, it is just the original, "story/tale". Now we can obviously take this tale and attach it to just about any event during the period since most of these events were critical events during the period that many of our suspects participated in, however, we simply cannot connect any of these events directly to the Beale Pamphlet story, we can only speculate about the various possibilities and suspects. Now consider all of the suspects all of our combined research has encompassed, and yet, still no smoking gun, not one single shred of supporting evidence that the tale of treasure in the pamphlet is true. Now add to this the thousands upon thousands of other research efforts into this same mystery, and still, not a single shred of conclusive/supporting evidence that the treasure tale in the pamphlet was/is true. Not saying it isn't a true treasure mystery, just saying we need to back up and establish its authenticity first. Until this happens the vicious circle is just going to continue going round and round without accurate solution/conclusion. It's impossible to find the correct ending without knowing the correct starting point.

 

[tat2guy]

Howdy all,
Yes its been a while but Ive been watching. This is getting quite heated and I dont think its understood. My opinion of this is, "lets find a or some documents" other than the pamphlet itself to further our knowledge of the story. Im pretty sure thats what Scoop is talking about. But as someone who has only looked at this for a few years its only my opinion.

Maybe lets find who they hired as a guide or who went with them as servants. Also the people of Santa fe must have talked to someone in the party, they did stay there for a few weeks.

Franklin, I beleive youve done great research, how can I get a copy of your book?

HH Jay

 

[Rebel - KGC]

We are not allowed to sell anything on this forum. Maybe you could find myself on some other website or you could PM myself. My books are at a website called Research Unlimited located in Michigan. There were on sale at the Peaks of Otter when they open back up. There may be a copy in Bedford, Va at Peter Veimeister's book store but since he passed away I don't know if his wife is still running the business. My book which is on CD is written as fiction but it is based upon 99 percent facts I found while researching for the past 29 years. Good luck to you.

I would like to add one other fact I found in the Spanish Archives-------The only illegal buffalo hunt out of Sante Fe was made in 1818. What year did Beale's companions leave Sante Fe to go buffalo hunting? Right, 1818.

PV's store in Bedford, Va. is NO MORE; the house is now a COUNSELING CENTER. PV's wife, Cindy IS selling out whatever was there at the "addy" he once had; once stock is gone... it is GONE! Cindy & Ben (their son) are doing ok... Ben is in Real Estate or something in Michigan. PV's other kids are ALSO doing ok; NO ONE wanted to continue HAMILTON'S. SAD!

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, I found letters waiting for Thomas J. Beall in the Franklin Intelligencer newspapers. TJB's letter layed there until the time that TJB said he was in St. Louis and Franklin, MO. after his departure the letters were no longer listed. Some of the letters in those newspapers were listed for five years. Don't tell me that TJB was not in Franklin, Mo. when his letters said he was because the letters were picked up.

Jacob Fowler's Journal tells of meeting a party of 15 men on his return trip to St. Louis. Take any journal of the times of travel from St. Louis to the Kansas area where Jacob Fowler camped on the opposite side of the river and you will find that it was the exact amounts of days of travel that TJB would have needed from the time he said he left St. Louis to the Kansas plains. The party of 15 was said to be the party of Benjamin Cooper. Benjamin Cooper raised his two nephews and one of these nephews married TJB's neice. This is not speculation this is facts backed up by historical documents and I had all of this in my CD book, "Lost Diary of Thomas J. Beall" I have TJB's service record in the Battle of New Orleans, I have his pay voucher. What kind of smoking gun are you looking for because all of the bullets has been fired from this gun.

Frankilin, my friend, while I appreciate what you're suggesting, it's all just more of the same smoke without the gun. It's all just more circumstantial evidence that cannot be directly and positively connected to the story in the Beale Pamphlet. "15 men"....so what? There are all sorts of historical references to various unknown parties traveling through the area during the period. "It was said to be the party of...", again, so what, who said, and when? Again, just more circumstantial evidence in the form of hearsay. The St Louis letters, again, so what? Those letters could have been to any Beall and they could have been in regards to a number of subject matters. Just more of the same circumstantial evidence that cannot be directly or positively connected to the story in the Beale Pamphlet. It is all just "assumption" and "speculation" and far from a smoking gun. We can pick a dozen events from the pamphlet and we can easily find this same type of strong circumstantial evidence, however, in all of it there is never any direct connection to the story in the Beale Pamphlet beyond assumption and speculation. An admission, a witness, a direct connecting reference or writing, etc., these are smoking guns, all else is just smoke without the gun. This is how legends continue to grow, expand, and survive, because there is no smoking gun to limit one's imagination. If you really want to solve this mystery then find the smoking gun, without it it's all just more of the same smoke drifting over the same campfire.

 

[treasure1822]

Hello All, it's been awhile for me and after reading this thread all I can say is WOW! I'm going to interject my two cents as it were so be patient. This quest is like a really good "Who done it". After redecoding the second cipher for myself as not to follow what everyone else is doing I had came to the conclussion that with the over 90+ errors on number two cipher we can safley say that our writer knew enough to make him dangerous. To solving a good mystery you have to ask the right question. Why does everyone assume that every word written in the three letters to Mr. Morriss are true? Why give information with no value. Why not divide the treasure before they left for the the families. In the imortal words of Sherlock Holmes, "The game is afoot"!

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, You will never find or see a smoking gun as long as you stay in the dark. The search goes on.

Franklin, you see it as staying in the dark, I see it as stepping out of the darkness and into the light. Why expect different results when everyone keeps thinking and pursuing things in exactly the same way? Obviously, we're no closer to solving this mystery today then they were 128 years ago, perhaps even further away given all of the added embellishments and the passing of time.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Franklin, you see it as staying in the dark, I see it as stepping out of the darkness and into the light. Why expect different results when everyone keeps thinking and pursuing things in exactly the same way? Obviously, we're no closer to solving this mystery today then they were 128 years ago, perhaps even further away given all of the added embellishments and the passing of time.

Makes "it" harder to find, eh...?

 

[ECS]

Basically that is what the party did, they divided the treasure among the survivors. However TJB and some of his party... were all killed in Bedford County, Va by the local Indians. There was only one survivor and he was the one that was shot by the babbling Mexican James Pursley. The only survivor was given his portion of the treasure in 1820...he was Ebenezer Nelms. He murdered the man carrying the "KEY" from St. Louis, Mo. to Robert Morris of Lynchburg in 1832. Also his companion was murdered. Ebenezer was shoved down the stairs by one of these mens ghost, George Radar Brugh.

Dead men and ghosts DON'T tell tales for published pamphlets except in phantasmagoria on an X-FILES episode...or have we entered the TWILIGHT ZONE?
All these outside incidents do not give the BEALE PAPERS validity-only provide embellishments to hype the mystery.

 

[bigscoop]

Makes "it" harder to find, eh...?

Sure don't help.

 

[bigscoop]

I posted that to make everyone lighten up. It is only a mystery that needs to be solved. There is no smoking guns. There never is to any treasure story. You either believe the story and search for the treasure or you don't believe the story and go on to a story you may believe. Let sleeping dogs lay.

But it can't ever be solved without the smoking guns. Quite the paradox, eh.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

But it can't ever be solved without the smoking guns. Quite the paradox, eh.

LOL! SMOKING GUNS OF APPOMATTOX will be my NEXT CD book...