Bayonet/Small Sword

[cgossett95]

My mother-in-law, who lives in Chattanooga Tennessee, found this in her yard while have some foundation work done. We believe it to be a Civil War bayonet but are not sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

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[allan]

How long is it ? looks "close" to a Boyle,Gamble & MacFee Saber bayonet but the grip is different

 

[High Plains Digger]

Looks like any of a half dozen WWI to WWII bayonets I have. From several different countries, several different guns. The WWII Japanese bayonet looks pretty much like this one, also, but perhaps a bit longer. I can do a photo is anyone is interested.

 

[HUNTER12]

For some reason the hook under the bbl support looks French, WW1 or before French sword bayonets had that hook. maybe a label rifle.

 

[cgossett95]

Thanks for the responses! I have a call into my mother-in-law to find out what the lenght of it is. The only reason we thought it could be civil war is because of the location of her home in Chattanooga but as I stated earlier we really don't know anything about it. Thanks for the help so far!

Carl

 

[Kieth-Tx]

Useing the hilt as a reference...say 5"....appears to be about 22"-24" overall.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Here's a few examples of this style bayonet.

Lee Enfield Bayonet

Turkish Mauser Bayonet

Japanese Arisaka Bayonet

Mike
USAF Retired

 

[High Plains Digger]

Pretty much like the ones I have. One example is quite a bit shorter but otherwise similar. The "T" shaped cross section of the subject blade is indicitive of something, but I don't know what. That makes the subject blade a little different than most bayonets that we think of as "blades'. Maybe the next step above a CW trianglular blade. I have a French "sabre/bayonet" that seems exactly like the CSA blades made in New Orleans. That part makes sense. What doesn't make too much sense is that the French were making these blades in 1878 and later. And I swear they look exactly the same. How do I know 1878? I was going to "try to pass it off as CSA" (that is a big LOL, just in case anyone takes me seriously) until I found an engraving on the top of the blade with the armory in France with the month and the year. Just to be sure, I checked another one the the pawn shop as seen on the TV show Pawn Stars: Yep, engraved with location, month and year. No technology change from 1860 or before to 1880? Boggles the mind.

Ed.: I can't tell on Mike's Turkish Mauser, but the Lee Enfield appears to have the "T" cross section of blade as the subject.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Digger......By "T" cross section are you referring to the groove running down the blade? If so, that's called a blood groove, it's to make the blade easier to pull back out.

The bayonet in question here might benefit from some cleaning, and maybe a bit of electrolysis, it may reveal some marks on the blade

 

[Westfront]

From the shape of the blade and the rectangular blood groove it looks to me like the Arisaka. Try electrolysis on this one and look further.

 

[High Plains Digger]

NOLA -Ken: The "T" I am speaking of is an actualy somewhat broader flat area on the top of the blade, above the blood groove. It can actually be fairly wide. Can you see whereof I speak? I'm pretty sure the Enfield has it, but if you don't see it, I will get a photo that will show it a little better.


Additonal: Just read on a bayonette site that the style is actually called a T-Back.

 

[High Plains Digger]

Ok, here are a couple of photos. The "swayback" bayonet is the French one that appears to be exactly like the CSA ones that I spoke of.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Digger... I see what you mean now.

 

[High Plains Digger]

So the subject appears to be a "T" back type of blade, smiliar to WWI, before and after. But the question is, could it be CW? I am not familiar enough with CW, and clearly there seems to be some "overlap". From a quick look at the bayonette site, socket types and these blade types were both made in the 1880's. So is there something on the subject blade that makes it definitive for one way or the other? A photo of the top of the blade would show if it is a T back or not for sure. Perhaps after it is cleaned up more we can see better.

Interestingly, the bottom bayonette was made in Soligen, Germany, the Sheffield of Germany. This was made for the Mauser and my particular one was made for the Argentinian army. Watching WWII IN COLOR, it appears that the soliders occasionally are carrying 1898 Mausers with that blade, or similar. Technology does come slow sometimes. You military guys: Would you prefer to carry an M-16 or a Garrand? I think that is perhaps nearly the same time difference. Maybe a Springfield and M-16 would be closer.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Have to remember that a lot of the weapons used in WWII were made in the late 1800's early 1900's that were refurbished or rearsenaled. Besides why fix something that isn't broken? If it's provened then keep using it.

Mike
USAF Retired

 

[High Plains Digger]

They say the 8mm Mauser was one of the best. Apparently so, since it was in the arsenal of dozens of countries, including Argentina and Chile, as well as Turkey and most of the Balkan portion of the world. Sorta like the AK-47. Like you said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

High Plains Digger wrote:
> But the question is, could it be CW?

Negative. Absolutely no bayonets which have the "iron-hook-with-ball-knob" on the handle were used in the American Civil War. Insofar as I'm aware, all bayonets which have that particular characteristic are postwar.

 

[High Plains Digger]

That doesn't sound like a definite maybe. What about the one the guy suggested early in the thread?

But wait, what about the French swayback that has closely similar ones made in New Orleans during the war? From a small photo in a book, they appear VERY similar because of the ball and hook and swayback. Like I said, I though I had one until I saw the engraving on the t-part of the blade.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

I sold one of those French model bayonets (2nd one in the pic below) a few months back for around $60.00..... I believe the French Foreign Legion used them and they were pre-WWI. I was bummed when I discovered it wasn't CSA or at least American.

 

[High Plains Digger]

I suspected it was French. I purchased it at a "jumble" sale in Brighton, England. But I have a WWI recruiting poster with Lady Liberty getting a little agressive carrying a bayonette that seems to be and close or exact copy. I may have to try to put that poster on the What is it forum as I can't find any info on it. You had such great luck on your posters.