Ball valve for bilge pump.....help please!

[Keeneongold]

Ordered the Atwood 1200 tsunami. Looks great, great reviews.
I'm making a cleanup sluice and wanted a pump that could serve other uses down the road.

The tsunami I ordered has a 1-1/8 barbed outlet that I need to put hose on and run it to my sluice, but somewhere between my pump and my sluice I need to put a ball valve to regulate flow.
All the ball valves I see are 1 inch, 1-1/4 in.......no 1-1/8 inch.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

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[Keeneongold]

Deep, never mind. I'll just put a couple of rubber sleeves on the barbed male fittings. It will probably be more watertight.

 

[russau]

Adding a valve to your bilge pump will cause an increase in head pressure and draw more amps causing a shortening of it's life. Not a good idea! It would be better to reduce it's voltage (variable speed control with a appropriate wattage ) to slow it down! That way you will have a good control of it's performance!

 

[Capt Nemo]

Go with the 1 1/4" valve. They won't draw that much more current, as I run 3 800's (9 Amps) on my Model 5 fluid bed highbanker, and when all valves are off it won't blow the 10 A fuse.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

are you measuring it? or do you know it is 1-1/8''
3/4'' pipe does not measure 3/4'' it's about 1'' maybe more
1'' pipe measure's 1 1/2''

 

[BIGSCOTT]

the atwood pump will pull more amperage the more fluid it moves,
pinching down on the suction or the discharge either one will make
the amperage go down

 

[Keeneongold]

the atwood pump will pull more amperage the more fluid it moves,
pinching down on the suction or the discharge either one will make
the amperage go down

Yeah I read this article...
Cycle Stop Valves, Inc.
And it seemed to say the same thing.

 

[SunshineMiner]

I mean... I GUESS i could believe all that honky about the electric centrifugal pumps(even small ones for PC cooling) and bilge pumps getting burned out from restricting the flow.. But I never thought it would hurt a gas engine, not one bit. But at least now i dont have to worry about bilge pump motors and longevity issues. I think any longevity issues any miner will have with a bilge pump with be turbidity of the water and getting organic buildup inside the pump. Anything you can do to keep the water going into the pump clean will help you out.

 

[Goldwasher]

well, when I'm at running rpm with a dredge pump...and have that "magic" benefit of horsepower from restriction....guess what happens when you throttle down?

Less suction...less head.

If I want to dredge deeper guess what? Throttle up.

Bilge pumps don't push water that far up hill. Pond pumps are centrifugal pumps...the higher the water fall the less flow. if you restrict the output it is even less.

Restricting an electric motor will cause wear on a motor.

My inductor motor on my forced air unit is gonna be due for replacement. When installed they ran the vent pipe too long with too many bends. Back pressure on the pipe basically. Pressure switch was not working right so neither was the heater.

Shorten exhaust run she fired right up. The wear on the motor remains and I will be replacing it in the spring or if it fails.

If you set up a bilge and leave it running and it is not putting water out of the out put because it is higher than the water can be lifted it is going to wear out sooner than if it was just moving water.

Restricting the input is much worse than restricting the output. No where in that article does it mention amp draw going down with restriction. Bilges(marine) have sloppy tolerance at the impeller and suck at building pressure.

Just get a 12v pot. and make a variable voltage adjustment

 

[Keeneongold]

G.W. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, especially as it's a great resource for future info seekers.
While I'm not especially concerned with conserving power, the thing that caught my eye and gave me a little relief was this line from the article.....
"With centrifugal impellers, restricting the flow rate with a valve reduces the power required proportionally. When pumping fairly cool water, these type pumps can be choked back to very small flow rates without any harm to the pump or motor."

 

[Keeneongold]

G.W. Thank you man for all the knowledge and experience (combined) that you post for immediate and future reference.
I'm not try to counter or fight your last post due to the fact that I do not have any experience bilge pumps whatsoever.
The thing that encouraged me in the article was about restricting the outflow not wearing on the motor of the pump.
Specifically.....
"With centrifugal impellers, restricting the flow rate with a valve reduces the power required proportionally. When pumping fairly cool water, these type pumps can be choked back to very small flow rates without any harm to the pump or motor."
Like I said, I truly have no idea of the truthfulness of this statement. What is your experience with outflow restriction and motor wear?

 

[mendoAu]

So if you are worried about motor wear you could just put a "T" in after the the pump and have a ( I prefer brass valves) valve in-line with the t'd line going back into your water source. Adjust your your needed head pressure with that T and you won't be "pinching" off any flow at the pump. My small pumps are 12 volt and this setup works well to adjust the head flow as the battery goes down. It also allows full flow to keep those puppies cool.

 

[Goldwasher]

G.W. Thank you man for all the knowledge and experience (combined) that you post for immediate and future reference.
I'm not try to counter or fight your last post due to the fact that I do not have any experience bilge pumps whatsoever.
The thing that encouraged me in the article was about restricting the outflow not wearing on the motor of the pump.
Specifically.....
"With centrifugal impellers, restricting the flow rate with a valve reduces the power required proportionally. When pumping fairly cool water, these type pumps can be choked back to very small flow rates without any harm to the pump or motor."
Like I said, I truly have no idea of the truthfulness of this statement. What is your experience with outflow restriction and motor wear?

basically resistance is resistance. Bilges wear over time when they are run a lot. They are not designed to run a lot.

I have two rule bilges I use on my blue bowl. the one I've used the most requires the valce to be open more for higher flow.

So, yes I restrict my out put. But its for a blue bowl so it does need the adjustment. I switched to the new unused pump recently because I was getting less response and I was trying to see if it was my battery ot charger. Nope old used up bilge.

they lose their umph over time it is a combination of the way those dc motors work and fine sediment...even just cloudy water has an effect.

A bilge is wearing out from the first use. resistance adds to that. Head is resistance.

Per that article it is related to industrial constant pressure pumps. Click on the products and the relevance to bilges used by prospectors in garages quickly fades.



I have yet to try and run a larger piece of gear a recirc or small cleanup/concentrator and actually wished I could get less flow.

To be honest life span due to wear is less of an issue than will the damn pump be enough if you have say three feet of head from your reservoir to out put.

Height to output, smooth wall hose vs, ribbed. 90's and 45 elbows...connection fittings. All add to head resistance and wear on a bilge.

This shows factory stated spec vs. actual test. Either way look at what just height does to flow

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...trXAhWHxFQKHeKDA2QQMwhAKAMwAw&iact=mrc&uact=8

basic flow performance

http://www.strongmanpumps.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Rule-Pump-Performance-Chart.jpg

My internet sucks took me an hour to get this

Digging to do Ill be back tonight

 

[Goldwasher]

also to answer your actual question.

Use a brass hose Spigot. It is a gate valve with a rubber seat. Gives better control.

Ball valves don't work as well.

 

[Keeneongold]

Mendo, thanks man. I was thinking about doing something along those lines.

G.W. thanks again. Makes sense what you said about the relevance of the article to bilge pumps and the resistance thing in general.
I'm going to buy the valve you recommend and figure out a multistage filtration system to keep the pump water clean.
Thanks again for your time.

Maybe

 

[Keeneongold]

"Maybe"
Hahahah!
Went back and edited what I was going to say but apparently didn't backspace that word.
Sounds pretty bad.
Thanks for your time ......maybe!
Lol!

 

[mendoAu]

also to answer your actual question.

Use a brass hose Spigot. It is a gate valve with a rubber seat. Gives better control.

Ball valves don't work as well.

Problem with hose bibs (spigot) is the "hose" thread. It can at times make a nightmare with plumbing threads/parts. A hose bib is basically a gate valve relying on a washer of some kind and they also come in very limited sizes whereas a ball valve (brass and my personal favorites) have almost unlimited choice in sizes. True, they also rely on washers but of a much different type. I guess I'll go out on a limb and say a quality in-line brass ball valve will out perform and outlast any other type of valve. Just a personal opinion. Just today I worked on a brass ball valve that I didn't drain right last year and cracked from freeze up. Repaired with my mig welder and good to go again...tuff little critters. PVC would have wound up in the trash barrel.

 

[Goldwasher]

Brass hose bib. They make garden hose thread adapters. I use numerous in my garden.

Spigot has more fine control than a ball valve.

I've never had an issue mating sizes or pipe type. regardless of size.

I wouldn't put a valve smaller than a hose bib size on a bilge powered run.

The valve is the only reduction I have in the line. They are already pumping less than their labeled number so I add as little restriction as I can.

I'm also not wasting my time using a bilge for something larger than a clean up device.

 

[Keeneongold]

Oh and GoldWasher, as an aside I wanted to tell you my experience regarding restrictions on flow and motor stress.
I impatiently bought a crappy small battery to run the Atwood tsunami 1200 due to my excitement and lack of funds at the time. My point is this... the battery ran the pump full strength for about 30 minutes or so before I put my valve on it.
After installing the valve, depending upon how much flow I restricted, the battery ran out of juice WAY faster.
Now this battery was the biggest waste of money, I should have known better, but it was amazing how much juice it expended in relation to the restriction I dialed in .
To the point that I would start restricting and then open the flow to see how well it recovered(you could hear the pump working harder when restricted) and the pump would still stay at the level I had previously restricted it to.
So although (to be honest) I did want your thoughts to be wrong on the matter, in my experience, restricting the flow absolutely makes the motor in the pump work harder.

 

[Goldwasher]

Told ya so