Atocha 8 Reale coin link to pictures opinions needed

[Rooter]

I recently purchased this Atocha 8 Reale coin but I only have a TSI # and no COA. I am looking for expert opinions on its authenticity. I realize that maybe difficult to attribute it to that specific wreck but I want to know if it's in the ballpark. I beleive it to be from the Mexican mint and through my prior research it appears to be the right size, shape, etc... I plan on freeing it from the nasty bezel as soon as I am confident it's authentic and I won't be returning it. Thank you in advance for any info you can provide. I'm having problems posting pictures so I'm hoping you can follow thw link to the images.

http://s905.photobucket.com/albums/ac255/mrpictureman/?action=view&current=Atocha8Reale002.jpg

 

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[divewrecks]

Yeah, that looks legit, I compared to some of my references and see that it is consistent with the 1622 fleet coins. I'll go a step further and say it is assayer D. I can make out about the right hand third of it right where it should be. That assayer was Diego de Godoy and he served as assyer from 1618-1634, so that all checks out. I'm sure you recognize the "8" real denomination to the right of the shield. By the way, the balls at the end of the cross arms are a giveaway it is Mexican.

Stan

 

[Rooter]

Thanks Stan!!! That's what I was hoping to hear. I appreciate your expert information and the info on the assayer and other markings. I am a collector of large and small copper cents but I have always been interested in cobs and their connection to history. I hope to continue to add to my collection but I realize I have alot to learn. The mount is horrible and has even caused some damage to the edges. I have my wire clippers ready to go. Any idea on the grade? I purchased it as a grade 2. Any idea on value? I just want to see if my instincts were correct. Another question is are the Mexican mint coins more scarce than the Potasi mint?

 

[divewrecks]

I would say it is consistent with what the Fishers would say is a Grade II coin. The cert would make it more valuable if you can get a replacement issued without spending too much. It might be worth a fee, which I am sure they would charge if they issue one. This coin was probably sold as part of a wholesale bulk lot, and maybe that is why the only paperwork was the coin flip tag, if that is where you are getting the TSI# from.

As far as value, the Fisher's would probably price that one at probably $750-$1000 at their Key West shop, maybe more. On Ebay one a comparable one could probably be had for $500-$600. The absence of a cert could easily knock $150 off that.

The Mexican mints were responsible for the bulk of the Atocha coinage. During most years of colonial rule Mexico outpaced Peru in silver production.

Stan

 

[Rooter]

Stan, Thanks again for all the info. It seems like the majority of the Reales I see for sale are from the Potosi Mint. That's why I asked. I don't even have the flip. The previous owner owned the coin for around 15 years and lost all associated paperwork. He only had the TSI # written down on a receipt. They want $200.00 to issue a new COA but I can't even do that without any original hardcopy paperwork. The value you stated is pretty much what I expected so I paid a good price for it. Not that it matters too much since it's going in my collection. Now for the next one. Thanks again!

 

[divewrecks]

Acknowledged expert Dan Sedwick will write a hard copy cert for you for $50:

http://www.sedwickcoins.com/otherservices.htm

Sounds like you did good. Congratulations on the addition to your collection.

Stan

 

[Rooter]

Thanks again Stan! It was Dans database on counterfeits that I've been referencing. I know his reputation. That's a reasonable amount and probably money well spent. Oh and I also wanted to let you know that I also appreciate the other thread on your EBay picks.

 

[divewrecks]

Oh and I also wanted to let you know that I also appreciate the other thread on your EBay picks.

You're welcome. Gives me justification to look at the new pieces every day.

Stan

 

[Iron Patch]

But aren't the papers 90% of the value for these? It's obviously not a valuable coin. Having said that, and if you agree, then I have a little trouble with lost papers on something like that. I know the few things I own that have papers of authenticity I protect just as much as the items. For coins it's even more important than mine. (which are watches)

 

[divewrecks]

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. I agree that all Atocha coins are overpriced and for the most part poorly conserved (polished). For the retail price of an average Atocha coin one could have a very good and well conserved coin from another wreck. The Capitana (Ecuador) comes to mind. So yes, if you are buying the romance of the story then the paper means a lot. With modern desktop publishing software a person could generate a pretty authentic looking cert though if one was trying to make a sale to a novice buyer.

Stan

 

[Rooter]

Iron Patch, You bring up a good point. I agree that the paperwork would make it easier to sell down the road with less worry about authenticity but the coin still is what it is. The assayers mark dates it from the time frame of the Atocha wreck. Does the Atocha connection add value? That's a question for Stan or other experts. I purchased it as an early 8 reale and that's what it is, so I'm happy with it. I am like you and keep very fastidious records but others are different. This was mounted as jewelery so the previous owner may not have cared about the documentation. To each his own I guess. The question I have is where else could this have come from? It was never clipped so isn't it safe to say it wasn't in circulation? If I put it up for sale with no mention of the Atocha would it be less valuable?

 

[divewrecks]

The coin obviously shows signs of saltwater immersion and has design features consistent with coins known to have come from the Santa Maragarita and Nuestra Senora de Atocha. Although there is certainly a remote possibility that the coin could have come from another wreck, the probability points highly to one of these 1622 fleet wrecks because of the vast number of coins found within. From what I have seen the inclusion of an official Mel Fisher photo cert increases the resale value of such a coin significantly. A high grade land find coin could be had for much less money, but then you couldn't close your eyes and dream of the circumstances that the coin and the 265 human souls aboard experienced during the terrible storm and subsequent sinking.

Stan