Atlantis has been re-discovered by TN members

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

HJI fish eye: Plus yeah many meters of just plsin old mud etrc. Even your pork chops and bacon were a bit, err, shall we say icky at first . Also. Hehehe, why would any intelligent person pave a street with Gold?? poor surface wearing materiel.

In a serious line it IS Atlantis, go dive on it and win fame and fortune. It is being handed to you on a GOLD platter.

Don Jose d e La Mancha
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

OHIO ROOM: I found this in my computer, I have no idea to whom I should thank but---

Here is an excellent example of a two ring Caldera, Atlantis type.

Black= outside ring

REd= inside ring

Yellow= island with mt in center.



Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Good morning ORO: You posted -->

I don't know if a gradual subsidence over 11,000 years would be the explanation for the great depth in parts of that area, but it would work
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The main reason that I suggested a gradual submergence was in deference to Plato's description of muddy shoals for a long period. Since he was apparently correct in it's basic description, then one must allow for his other data. A gradual submergence would be suggested by a diverging, plate movement.

In the Atlantis zone we have three distinct plates in contact with a common epicenter. Each is moving independently of the other, at a different rate, a different direction, and probably with a rotational factor also, an "extremely" complex action. But using as a crude basis the model of divergence, we find that the North Atlantic continents are drifting apart at an average rate in that area of some 1.15 = .453 " - 2,15 cm. = .8460 " Using a time rate of 10,000 years we find that the continents are now approximately between .86 & 1.6 statute miles further apart today than in Atlantis' period..

This would suggest that a thinning of the crust by stretching the ocean floor in that area would lead to a gradual sinking accompanied by increasing inflow of molten materiel in the developed, weakend zones. This magma in flow would create Islands and enormous ridges, mostly on the bottom of the ocean floor. ©@

Don Jose de La Mancha (NAG)

p.s. NAG = Not a Geologist, just having fun..
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

HOLA mi amigo,

I posted a reply on this in another thread, but will repeat the gist of it here - the problem with a long, slow subsidence to explain the great depths is that from the time of the destruction of Atlantis to the time of Plato, some 9000 years, the sea floor had not sunk to any extent, as Plato mentioned the area was still shallow and muddy in his own time (350 BC) so....for the slow subsidence idea to work, virtually all of the sinking must have taken place in the much shorter span of time from Plato to today, or perhaps 2360 years. I would sooner believe that the great depths in some parts of the proposed location are due to rapid/sudden subsidences, the results of earthquakes over the centuries, perhaps a series of such sinkings. Just MY OPINION of course!
your friend,
Roy

Not A Geologist eh? Then how do we explain your success in finding Tayopa, hmmm? ??? :icon_scratch: ;D :D
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Hi RT How does one sail windward without a KEEL ? All ancient world cultures didn,t have external framing on their ships until quite late BC. Keeless boat with oar man power and limited sail would only mean death in heavy sea conditions. Most cultures BC sailed east to trade not west into the atlantic.So how did a culture exist in the atlantic 9000 years ago exist without a keel??????

tinpan :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

HOLA mi amigo Tinpan,

Not to take our friend's place and answer for him, but there are problems in attempting to answer your particular question.

I would say two difficult factors are in play viz the question of the keel - for one, we do not know the sailing routes used by anyone of 11,500 years ago, nor whether the oceanic and wind currents were identical to later and today; second, we do not know anything about the ships of Atlantis, they are simply not described in any of the ancient sources. The only hints we have in Plato are that the ships traveled from island to island like stepping stones, which would not necessitate the use of huge ocean-going vessels, relatively small ships could likely make this type of "short hops". With these limits of our information about their seafaring abilities, we can not say whether they had keels on their ships, nor whether they sailed into the wind or simply followed the 'trade winds' to make voyages as was done up until fairly recently (a few centuries ago recent).

Even in much later times, we find that some cultures used ships with keels; for instance Phoenician ships dating to at least the twelfth century BC had keels, *(Perrot et Chipiez, 'Hist. de l'Art', iii. 517, No. 352) yet Chinese ships of 2600 years later had none. Without a keel, a ship wallows when it tries to sail into the wind and even has problems sailing across the wind (side drift) but some ancient people had discovered it - so how can we say whether the Atlantians had developed the keel or not? If they were a seafaring race and were inventive/resourceful, it stands to reason that it might have been a natural discovery for them to make in the course of their sea trade. We don't know how long Atlantis existed as a culture, but it might be several centuries or even more - enough time to have developed many things.

A similar problem relating to the idea of Atlantis of being a vast empire with outposts or colonies on several continents has to do with shipworms (wood borers, tiny molluscs that literally eat holes in the hulls of wooden ships) - shipworms are a very serious problem in tropical waters, even Columbus got stranded on an island due to their effects (and famous Captain Kidd lost his first ship to them) but we know that several ancient cultures found effective countermeasures, such as covering the hull with sheets of lead plate or copper plates. Considering the climate of that time it is conceivable that shipworms might not have been quite so widespread and numerous, but I would think they would be a serious problem even in that age, in tropical regions. (Wiki has a fair article on these sea nasties at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipworm )

Good question Tinpan, one that really would be interesting to KNOW the answer to. I wish I knew that answer.
Corbita_Boat.jpg

(Greek trading ship of the type known as 'Corbita' which type went virtually unchanged for a number of centuries)
Mercha32.jpg

As you can see in this image, these ships were fitted with keels. Would an island-hopping culture have developed them?

Ancient Polynesian voyaging canoe circa 1000 BC, as shown in petroglyph and artists conception:
herbpetro.gif

Perhaps Atlantian sailing ships were more like Polynesian canoes? These catamarans had no keels, yet are capable of sailing into the wind due to the twin-hull design that functions almost like a keel in holding a course. Perhaps we will never know the answers.

Good luck and good hunting Tinpan and everyone, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Hi Orblanco,Thanks for your input on ancient world ships.Most designs of ships from before 12 century BC are based on found relics and drawings and not from the remains of found ship wrecks.That then puts the a big question to how accurate the images of ships are. i do believe more ancient cultures did exist but not in the map locations provided by RT. Infact there more evidence of older cultures on the bottom of the Mediterranean rather than off the coast Spain .

tinpan
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Room : This was sent to me
~~~~~~~~

"OHIO my friend ORO: You asked -->

I have a side-question for you amigo - what will it mean to you, should your location prove to BE Atlantis?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Physical, financial reward? Nothing. Ego yes., even if it is correct and I never receive any possible credit.

In spite of being a Saint I am human. The succesful end of my paper search for Atlanis would be similar to the end of a gigantic cross word puzzle, or another Tayopa.

You, and the others, know exactly what I am saying - THE SEARCH !

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

TIN: I don't see my post to you, so I will redo it.

Oro did an excellent job.

For that matter we don't know that they didn't have keeled ships then. It may have just been ignored or dropped by the other sea going cultures for one reason or another. This would't be the first time another culture dropped / ignored an improvement to remain on status Quo.

They may simply not have needed it, using currents and pressure gradients to accomplish their purpose, in which case keels wouldn't have been been critical.

After all man has successfully crossed the Atlantic in a simple, keeless, one man canoe.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Tin: You posted -->

Infact there more evidence of older cultures on the bottom of the Mediterranean rather than off the coast Spain
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There can be no contest since no off shore culture - Atlantis - has produced any evidence of physically being so far. In fact this thread may be the first evidence of it's existance and location.

Personally, I cannot believe that this data hasn't been thought of by others, but never made public, it is too obvious. Hence my designation of it as being re-discovered.

Obviously there are even older cultures somewhere.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Hi RT canoe = hunter and collector

civilization = settlement and using methods to be self-sufficient.Having an island city and other islands just doesn,t seem to be right at the location on the map.As a civilization grows it expands and also trades .yet even tho the islands have long been buried on the ocean bottom the should be evidence of the civilization on one of the close continents.Or the greeks writters must have made Atlantis far grander than it really was.Funny that i should put that pun in . lol

tinpan
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Morning my Waltzing Matilda friend: You posted -->

canoe = hunter and collector
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Agreed, but was referring to recent conquests of the 1900's. adventurers
**************************************************************************************

You also posted -->

Having an island city and other islands just doesn,t seem to be right at the location on the map.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

It simply couldn't be "more" right., including being a cross navigation site of the Atlantic to the Americas.
**************************************************************************************

You also posted -->

the should be evidence of the civilization on one of the close continents
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree, but it is simply because we do not recognize it as such? How would we recognize an Atlantean .artifact or construction?

Perhaps reviewing some of the data previously posted in -->

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,149487.100.html

might be helpful.


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Ladies Gentlemen: This interesting excerpt from a post by by wreck diver, tends to confirm our data on Atlantis. WE HAVE found it, now go dive on it.. --->

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sc...05_ART_08-05-08_B5_QGATG44.html?sid=101

"Archaeologists in the UK are exploring a vast expanse of sea floor between southeastern England and the Netherlands that, between 8,000 and 10,000 years ago, was a rich landscape inhabited by Mesolithic hunters and gatherers.

"The team named this sunken world "Doggerland," which Laura Spinney describes in the July 10 issue of Nature as having once been a paradise of marshes, lakes and rivers. Using seismic survey data, these archaeologists have created a map of Doggerland that is providing crucial context for artifacts that occasionally are scooped up in fishing nets."


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

Don Jose,
that doesn't seem to be the same area you picked out. :icon_scratch:
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th memeber

That big old hole just off of the Yucatan is the crater left by the dinosaur killer.
 

Re: Atlantis has been re-discovered by Th members

Well Doggerland is certainly a contender IMHO. Unfortunately this region was not an island during that time period but was a land bridge so to speak - an extension of Europe. So...interesting and possible but with a rather glaring problem. Of course it is also possible that it was separated from Europe by some kind of channel, even if only for a few hundred years this would be enough time for a civilization to arise.
Oroblanco
 

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