Ask him....Re-visted...

[Old Dog]

A tree will not in the process of growing lift anything.
This can be proved in your own yard.
If you simply carve your name or notch on one side of a 1 inch tree,
in fifty years the notch or what ever will be the same height.
The very tips of the branches are what grow to great hieghts,
the trunk of the tree only grows bigger around.

Thom

 

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[CanadianTrout]

In light of your further wandering and discoveries it looks like Old Dog was right. Searching the area turned up more clues. I'm no KGC man but that pile of rocks, the tree carving and the original large rock are almost certainly all related. You are definately onto somethign here.

Could the big leaning rock be a peep sight. When you look through the hole between the rock and tree in either direction dies it line up with the tree carving or the pile of rocks? Do you have a metal detector? Just a guess but you may find a piece of metal under that pile of rocks. If you do, do not remove it from the hole. What the piece of metal is will tell you somethign and it's position or orientation in teh ground could or would be another clue.

As I stated I am no KGC guy but I've watched/read/learned a lot about what others have said and discovered.

Old Dog is correct again (as usual) this thread belongs either in Treasure Marks/Symbols or in the KGC area of this forum.

Good luck and keep documenting everythign you do. Lots of pics and post here for help/suggestions/ideas.

GOOD LUCK bro!

 

[Red_desert]

No, the marks in the tree definitely don't look Native American. I would guess by looking at them, they are treasure signs. A forked tree has been used along with a stone in the fork for caches that were made south of San Saba, Texas.

The stone in the forked tree, is how one of the outlaws I've read about recently, think the name was something like Sam Bass (I'll have to check on the name), marked some of his caches in Texas. It looks like a cache marker, but the stone used still looks to be of Indian origin.
Long nose god period effigy...look at front and back sides Notice the back has curved right top, left lower side an arrow point shape..

 

[Red_desert]

Here is one from a holed stone which the arrow point shape is more obvious.

 

[Red_desert]

Obsidian carving found from out West, fits in the hand with a nice Eagle design, worked surface.

 

[jeff of pa]

A tree will not in the process of growing lift anything.
This can be proved in your own yard.
If you simply carve your name or notch on one side of a 1 inch tree,
in fifty years the notch or what ever will be the same height.
The very tips of the branches are what grow to great hieghts,
the trunk of the tree only grows bigger around.

Thom

I don't mean to argue with you Thom;
although this may come off that way.

when I was young we used to plant trees in tires.
Eventually the tire would be a few feet of the ground
Because the root base would Lift as it Grew Out.
with the tree growing around the tire.
I do feel my scenerio is still a possibility.
maybe rare but I think possible.
if the tree started in the right position & lifted the rock as it spread.

Hopefully I'm wrong & your right

 

[Old Dog]

Jeff,

I was making the observations by looking at the size of the stump the stone is against.
I am guessing that the dual parts of the tree were approximately the same size when the first one was cut.

Judging from the size of the stone the tree (if it were small to start with) would have grown along the bottom of the stone and then turned and grew up.
But that as you say is only my two cents.

No arguements just observations.

Thom

 

[jeff of pa]

I have to admit that is a very big Heavy rock.
and I would think it would have Deformed
the tree causing a curve in it while Growing if there from the beginning.

& your right on the Stump

you convinced me

 

[Copperhead]

Thom...thanks for your thoughts on the pics...'course I can't promise not muttering a few more curse words in conjunction with your name in my future excursions..

Canadian Trout...any more comments welcome..yes I have a detector..but no I haven't detected the area..as for being a peep site..not sure..as far as KGC stuff goes, I'm pretty clueless..will try and educate myself...

Red Desert...Appreciate the info and links you've provided...been reading more about the meaning of rocks related to native americans...interresting stuff...

Jeff...Thom pretty much squashed my theories too...

In regard to the other rock pictures..the rock pile Trout referred to....as far as I know..is a section of old wall...my real interest was in the larger rocks with the holes in them...any thoughts?...approx. 5 inches deep....

Some general info of the area....lots indian activity documented around this part of the state, but unknown to me in this specific area....surrounding land is "littered" with stone walls..large tracts of former farm land(?).....reverted back to woods...hard to explain, but definite differences to the age of some walls.. somewhat sparse in the immediate area...along with intertwining old roads , path and trails...

Lastly...Basically I'm just a hiker, preferably off the beaten path...not trying to sensationalize anything...just sharing some of the things I happen upon.... and interested in comparing your observations to mine...thanks again..

 

[truckinbutch]

Gotta go with Old Dog on this one,Jeff. When I learn how to post pictures I intend to post a beech tree with carvings that I can date for 100 years +/- that are the same height as when they were carved.
A core sample of a same size same species tree in same area could help date when this rock was leaned on the tree by counting growth rings.

 

[Cynangyl]

Copperhead.....any chance you could share with me where to look for info regarding the meaning of rocks in relation to Native Americans? It would help me a great deal in regards to a site I am looking at if you could. I am still totally fascinated with this thread and check it often. what a great place it appears to be that you are exploring! So glad you are sharing it with us!

 

[Red_desert]

The rocks with 5 inch deep holes...is there almost a rounded bottom to them (the holes)? If so, you find many of them out West...some got used for milling grain or if grain was scarce acorns as a substitute.

Now I found a site with Sam Bass cache info, including the one I'd mentioned.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/TX-Treasure6.html

"Llano County is home to other buried treasure sites, including $60,000 in gold and silver coins buried by Sam Bass near the community of Castell in the western part of the county. Bass buried the loot on a creek bed, marking the spot with a rock in a fork of a tree."

 

[Ryan1979]

Copperhead,

Here are a couple of things I was wondering about.

In the third picture on the right, it almost looks like a path of some sort. Not knowing the area, I would guess that at some point years ago someone can through with heavy equipment and cleared that path out. Maybe they lifted that stone on edge from the path with the bucket of a dozer, loader, and it tipped and fell into that tree and stayed there.

Further, with lots of stumps in the area and those fallen logs not present (are they?), that may indicate that someone either cleaned up or logged off a portion of this woods? Maybe they moved the rock from their path so that the ride and dragging of logs went easier. To me, moving the rock from the path makes sense if you're dragging valuable hardwoods over it. Why severely ding up valuable lumber?

But.....I don't want to believe this after seeing those carvings on the tree. That is really interesting.

Ryan1979

 

[Copperhead]

Copperhead.....any chance you could share with me where to look for info regarding the meaning of rocks in relation to Native Americans? It would help me a great deal in regards to a site I am looking at if you could. I am still totally fascinated with this thread and check it often. what a great place it appears to be that you are exploring! So glad you are sharing it with us!

Here's one.....not positve but I believe Red_desert provided it to me...got a few others...just gotta find them.. ...like I said interesting reading....all true?... ..thanks for your comments..


http://indianrockpiles.weetu.com/articles/IndianRockPiles.html


Ryan, there is a path near the rock....and some sort of logging/tree cutting does look like it took place at one time....area has pretty much been off limits to any such activity since the early 1900's....just from my observations...the roads, trails and paths in the area don't seem to show any evidence of heavy equipment being there..can't say for certain though....lots of rocks, ledge, boulders everywhere...still not seeing a good reason to move this one....sorry I can't provide more definitive answers..

 

[Cynangyl]

Thank you oh so very much! I am off to

 

[Hoss KGC]

I completely agree with the OLD DOG on this one. This is a KGC trick and those are KGC carvings. The "NW" is typical KGC. I can produce several photos of the same carvings. The trees that the KGC used for their clues are types that do just what he said, they carved on them and they don't move. For example, the KGC site I am currently working has a tree with a 4 foot long blaze. Measuring from the ground to the bottom of the blaze was 10 feet. This all coincided with what the carvings had to say. If you metal detect, and you find any iron pieces of "scrap", DO NOT MOVE THEM. In fact, if you get a hit on your detector, dig very slowly and carefully so that you don't disturb the item. Measure its dimensions, including any notches or holes it might have, measure using a good quality compass the bearing it is pointing, if it is pointing a bearing. Take pictures and video of it and then cover it back up. You may find you have to go back and take another look at it. If you can't find the treasure, and you mess the marker up, it will become a lost treasure.
Good luck,
Boattow

 

[Old Dog]

I completely agree with the OLD DOG on this one. This is a KGC trick and those are KGC carvings. The "NW" is typical KGC. I can produce several photos of the same carvings. The trees that the KGC used for their clues are types that do just what he said, they carved on them and they don't move. For example, the KGC site I am currently working has a tree with a 4 foot long blaze. Measuring from the ground to the bottom of the blaze was 10 feet. This all coincided with what the carvings had to say. If you metal detect, and you find any iron pieces of "scrap", DO NOT MOVE THEM. In fact, if you get a hit on your detector, dig very slowly and carefully so that you don't disturb the item. Measure its dimensions, including any notches or holes it might have, measure using a good quality compass the bearing it is pointing, if it is pointing a bearing. Take pictures and video of it and then cover it back up. You may find you have to go back and take another look at it. If you can't find the treasure, and you mess the marker up, it will become a lost treasure.
Good luck,
Boattow

Just in case you do see one, something to watch for is a tree with a key hole or a sight hole through it.
You are very close if you find a tree like this.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,153639.0.html
Post #15 bottom photo

Thom

 

[Copperhead]

Only tree like that I found was this...didn't give it much though...doesn't seem very old..
I apologize for not having read up on the KGC...I assume this stuff took place many years ago?

 

[Ryan1979]

I guess I think someone should try to get a good estimate of how old that tree is. What kind of tree is it? Is there any good way of estimating it's age based on growth habits, instead of cutting it down to count rings (is that even accurate?).

I don't know a thing about KGC, but I guess if that path is going to be researched, then the tree should be given an estimated age to see if it even comes close to the time the KGC was operating.

Just some thoughts,

Ryan1979

 

[hagerman]

I also would agree with old dog, and ryan. you need to check the date of the stump and then date the living tree to see how long ago the rock was put there. the stump had to have been cut before the rock was placed there so that would give you an idea of the time period.
Looking at how much the tree has grown around the top of the rock looks like it could be about the same amount of growth that occured after the stump was made. I dont belive the tree could have lifted a rock that size, but maybe the stump was made just for support. not to hold all the weight of the stone.
As far as being moved to log, look at how close the tree is in front of the stone and the other smaller stones. if the upright stone was lying flat, it looks like it still wouldnt be in the way of the trail. if that was the case, the tree in front of the upright stone would have been cut down and the smaller stones in the ground would also have been moved.
Or the trees in front were not there when the rock was moved( which looks like the case). If you could date them, then you would also have an idea of the time period.
Once you get an idea of when, you could see if there was any machinery during that time that would be able to move a stone that size nad if there was a reason for that machine to be there.
I know its all a bit extreme
Just some thoughts

Red: is the edge of the road
Yellow: are the trees that would have been cut down
Blue: rocks also would have been moved