Artifacts?

[eppingera]

Hello all!

Looking for opinions on these items. The 2 outside ones were found in Howard County, MO on a farm where we have found numerous projectile points (mostly broken) and possible pottery shards. The round-ish one fits perfectly in the palm with the fingers fitting in the grooves on the underside. The end is damaged as if it was used as a hammer. The cylindrical one I have no idea about, it is a strange looking rock but doesn't look natural to me. The middle one was found on a Missouri River mud flat. Any ideas or opinions?

Thanks!

 

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[NC field hunter]

I see in the third photo(the group photo) a small white dalton. The large one, I'm clueless.

 

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[Charl]

Id call it a Dalton. Paleo had the fluting at the base.

Correction, rock. Regardless of the point type in the thread, many Dalton's are also fluted.

 

[Charl]

I would go with Sloan Dalton myself. Does not look anything like these Dalton-Hemphills:

Dalton -Hemphill - LITHICS-Net

Just noticed this is the same link that GB posted. But, just looking at many images in the Overstreet guides, I did not find a single Hemphill that did not have fairly pronounced auricles, that does not seem to be the case here at all. I'm no expert outside my own region, but just did a google image search as well and could not find a Dalton- Hemphill without significant auricles, even well defined stems on some examples. That's why I thought scotto's suggestion of Sloan Dalton seemed a better fit.

 

[Get-the-point]

I would go with Sloan Dalton myself. Does not look anything like these Dalton-Hemphills:

Dalton -Hemphill - LITHICS-Net

Just noticed this is the same link that GB posted. But, just looking at many images in the Overstreet guides, I did not find a single Hemphill that did not have fairly pronounced auricles, that does not seem to be the case here at all. I'm no expert outside my own region, but just did a google image search as well and could not find a Dalton- Hemphill without significant auricles, even well defined stems on some examples. That's why I thought scotto's suggestion of Sloan Dalton seemed a better fit.

Dalton Sloans do no come with shoulders. This one does have pronounced shallow shoulders. I understand why you are leaning towards that. Fact is that Dalton Sloans do not have shoulders. This point is a toss up. It really depends if the base is ground or not. GB posted that link for lithics net as well. Just remember not all website owners who develop photos for there site are right. Like I said in the one photo to the left, that looks like Dalton hardaway. The lack of a deep concave is what has me puzzled. The only points that would look the posters point is Holland, Scotty, and Hemp hill. So take your pic it is one of those. The only way to tell is if the base is ground or not.

 

[Charl]

Dalton Sloans do no come with shoulders. This one does have pronounced shallow shoulders. I understand why you are leaning towards that. Fact is that Dalton Sloans do not have shoulders. This point is a toss up. It really depends if the base is ground or not. GB posted that link for lithics net as well. Just remember not all website owners who develop photos for there site are right. Like I said in the one photo to the left, that looks like Dalton hardaway. The lack of a deep concave is what has me puzzled. The only points that would look the posters point is Holland, Scotty, and Hemp hill. So take your pic it is one of those. The only way to tell is if the base is ground or not.

Yes, the point in question does have slight shoulders. I won't pick one though, whatever you say is fine by me.
i will post some darn good advice where typology in general is concerned. Something that should be kept in mind, because all typologies are human creations. There are no styles inherent in any point. This is why it can be so difficult typing variations on any one style. We can trip over our own feet if we don't keep the following in mind, at least IMHO...

I have seen folks desperately almost, trying to fit a point(call it a square peg) into a particular style(call it roundish peg) without realizing it is sometimes futile. "It has to be this type, nothing else is close". Points are described by objective data, and no one is going to confuse a Madison with a Snyders.
But, knowing that no typology is actually inherent in any artifact can save a lot of headaches. The manufacturing technology may be the same within a style, but nobody was using blueprints or casting points from molds. All these qualifications make it easier to understand why typology will always have uncertainties. I know I will always struggle with typology of points, there are just too many curve balls in the real world. A Brewerton side notched one side, somewhat corner notched on the other? What do I do? Simply accept there will always be curve balls.

 

[Get-the-point]

Yes, the point in question does have slight shoulders. I won't pick one though, whatever you say is fine by me.
i will post some darn good advice where typology in general is concerned. Something that should be kept in mind, because all typologies are human creations. There are no styles inherent in any point. This is why it can be so difficult typing variations on any one style. We can trip over our own feet if we don't keep the following in mind, at least IMHO...

Hey Charl, the only thing we can offer is a opinion. When it comes to typology, I really think we all need to consider morphology. The common relation from point type to point type. Points that take on a different form after resharpening and are called something else. Or points identical to one another just found in different parts of the country and given names by association to finder. Not true typology.

 

[rock]

Correction, rock. Regardless of the point type in the thread, many Dalton's are also fluted.

Do you consider Dalton and Trans Paleo the same period? I know some do. I see them as 2 different.