Army pack train ....

[Culinary Caveman]

Seems to me that I'd follow the road past my mine then double back to watch my back trail. So if Holmes followed Waltz as far as hidden water before getting busted what's the odds that the mine is between hidden water and the salt river?

 

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[cactusjumper]

Seems to me that I'd follow the road past my mine then double back to watch my back trail. So if Holmes followed Waltz as far as hidden water before getting busted what's the odds that the mine is between hidden water and the salt river?

CC,

If that were true, why did Brownie start his systematic search from Superstition Mountain? He did all his early searches from the (pretty much) middle of the range. I believe the best information that Holmes had was from following Julia and Rhiney.

Without any of the embellished "Hell I was there" stories, that's exactly where I would start.....assuming I wanted to look for the LDM.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Dr. Syn]

Excuse a straw brain for butting in, but first I want to say, I really enjoy reading the info that you folks know. Amazing how much you've dedicated to it.

Couple of things been thinking on. With the bit about seeing the trail, but those on the trail won't see the mine. So it was hidden from view via either being higher and back from the trail, or if on the same level, it was behind something that he could see from, that the casual viewer could not do the same from the trail. So, has anyone looked at the directions given, the first couple of attempts at locating it, and a Military trail all in the same area? Just figuring if what was listed as to what he had said and done, using that info, and where the folks who followed him and/or followed his directions went, and finding an "old" Military trail at that time frame would narrow down a search area.

If he was going to and from the mine, it wasn't a couple hundred miles away. It had to be fairly close within a certain distance. Anyone know anything about what he took when he went? Supply wise would help narrow down an area. You wouldn't pack for a month if you were only going to be gone a week, or if your trip was going to take a short time to get there and back. I doubt he took a 20 mule team every time he went, so how much could he pack in? An how long would that last? Water is worth more then gold out there, did he pack it in, or was there water at the mine?

 

[Dr. Syn]

One other thing. In listening, Mr Dutchman was possibly a creature of habit with a heck of a nose for finding gold. He had several previous claims, they produced, yet he up and sold them and moved on to the next one. This to me sounds like a person more in it for the hunt then the ultimate reward. He finds a gold producer, satisfying his need, and moves on for the next hunt. This would help explain modest living. He didn't want to live in luxury, he wanted to hunt the next find. And if in the end, with his skills, he may very well have been able to spot a previous mine, that was thought to be played out or abandoned, that he just knew there was more still there. Some folks are like that, the ultimate high is the hunt.

 

[cactusjumper]

Excuse a straw brain for butting in, but first I want to say, I really enjoy reading the info that you folks know. Amazing how much you've dedicated to it.

Couple of things been thinking on. With the bit about seeing the trail, but those on the trail won't see the mine. So it was hidden from view via either being higher and back from the trail, or if on the same level, it was behind something that he could see from, that the casual viewer could not do the same from the trail. So, has anyone looked at the directions given, the first couple of attempts at locating it, and a Military trail all in the same area? Just figuring if what was listed as to what he had said and done, using that info, and where the folks who followed him and/or followed his directions went, and finding an "old" Military trail at that time frame would narrow down a search area.

If he was going to and from the mine, it wasn't a couple hundred miles away. It had to be fairly close within a certain distance. Anyone know anything about what he took when he went? Supply wise would help narrow down an area. You wouldn't pack for a month if you were only going to be gone a week, or if your trip was going to take a short time to get there and back. I doubt he took a 20 mule team every time he went, so how much could he pack in? An how long would that last? Water is worth more then gold out there, did he pack it in, or was there water at the mine?

DS,

There is a nice copy of a map showing the military trails through the Superstitions in Dr. Glover's first book on the LDM.
Many people have tried to tie various military trails to the LDM........without success..........as far as I know.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Of course he was referring to a small hidden vlley

 

[Oroblanco]

Seems to me that I'd follow the road past my mine then double back to watch my back trail. So if Holmes followed Waltz as far as hidden water before getting busted what's the odds that the mine is between hidden water and the salt river?

If that were the case, the mine could be in that location. However Holmes trailed Waltz to Hidden Water where Waltz camped for that night, then the following day continued to trail Waltz across the Salt river (south) and up Tortilla creek, ending up getting snagged almost in the same general area not far from where Jesse Capen's last camp was located. I do not know the exact site but in that area. It is also notable that you can pan gold in Tortilla creek, and from many places on Tortilla mountain.

: Dr. Syn - your summation of Waltz's motives and actions are very logical in my opinion. Not everyone is out to 'get rich quick', some are prospectors and will always go prospecting, regardless of the cash returns.

 

[Shortfinger]

: Dr. Syn - your summation of Waltz's motives and actions are very logical in my opinion. Not everyone is out to 'get rich quick', some are prospectors and will always go prospecting, regardless of the cash returns.

Would you be referring to your self, Oro? I'm actually just in it for the country I see. I don't need no stinkin gold!

 

[Oroblanco]

Would you be referring to your self, Oro? I'm actually just in it for the country I see. I don't need no stinkin gold!

I guess that I am including myself in that statement above, for if I never made a dime from prospecting and treasure hunting, I would probably still do it. But for those of you that are really in it for the beautiful country, there are many other very beautiful places to go hiking where there are no lost mines. The Grand Canyon comes to mind, of course there are some obscure lost mine stories associated with that place too but the geology is very much against their existence so you can hike and soak up the scenery without wasting time hunting for an old hole in the ground with metal in it. Heck there are some great hiking trails like the Pacific Crest, a body could spend a lifetime just hiking the back country really.

 

[Shortfinger]

I guess that I am including myself in that statement above, for if I never made a dime from prospecting and treasure hunting, I would probably still do it. But for those of you that are really in it for the beautiful country, there are many other very beautiful places to go hiking where there are no lost mines. The Grand Canyon comes to mind, of course there are some obscure lost mine stories associated with that place too but the geology is very much against their existence so you can hike and soak up the scenery without wasting time hunting for an old hole in the ground with metal in it. Heck there are some great hiking trails like the Pacific Crest, a body could spend a lifetime just hiking the back country really.

Well, I have to agree with you about the beautiful country out there. I'm an old time hiker, but new to the treasure part of it. And if I never find anything, that will be okay. However, please note that I said I didn't NEED any gold, not that I wouldn't keep it (or sell it) if I found it...

 

[Dr. Syn]

Okay, let me ask about this. How old was Jacob when he found what he found?
He was what 81 or so when he passed on. Just comparing him to me, at 56 I've worked hard all my life, grew up on a farm. Still hang out there.
At my age, my knees are shot, arthritis in most of my joints, bad back, had more then my share of broken bones, and have a bad ticker. With modern medicine, I'm still around, but not doing a lot of the things I used to do. I pay dearly for several days when I do go out and do those things now. And I'm sure a lot of folks here know what I'm talking about.

Life expectancy back then was around 50 or so, so this guy was one off the charts, so to speak, making it that far. Granted his choice of employment would have made him better then average at physical condition.
But poor medical care, terrible diet, age factor, and he was out there making multiple trips back and forth to a location way off the beaten path, and mining gold? Pretty spry old guy I'll have to admit. I'm more and more leaning to him finding someone's stash and using it, rather then mining it himself, because of the effort involved and age factor.

We all get old, we all for the most part pay for that physically, even if we keep up the pace, we pay the price for it.
For him to have had that kind of ore, it had to be very rich as it was said to be, taking little time and effort to pull out a good pile, or someone else had done the hard work, and he was just there picking up the pieces.

 

[azdave35]

Okay, let me ask about this. How old was Jacob when he found what he found?
He was what 81 or so when he passed on. Just comparing him to me, at 56 I've worked hard all my life, grew up on a farm. Still hang out there.
At my age, my knees are shot, arthritis in most of my joints, bad back, had more then my share of broken bones, and have a bad ticker. With modern medicine, I'm still around, but not doing a lot of the things I used to do. I pay dearly for several days when I do go out and do those things now. And I'm sure a lot of folks here know what I'm talking about.

Life expectancy back then was around 50 or so, so this guy was one off the charts, so to speak, making it that far. Granted his choice of employment would have made him better then average at physical condition.
But poor medical care, terrible diet, age factor, and he was out there making multiple trips back and forth to a location way off the beaten path, and mining gold? Pretty spry old guy I'll have to admit. I'm more and more leaning to him finding someone's stash and using it, rather then mining it himself, because of the effort involved and age factor.

We all get old, we all for the most part pay for that physically, even if we keep up the pace, we pay the price for it.
For him to have had that kind of ore, it had to be very rich as it was said to be, taking little time and effort to pull out a good pile, or someone else had done the hard work, and he was just there picking up the pieces.

life expectancy 50 ?....not sure where you got that info but many people back lived to be 80....wyatt earp lived to be 81...most of the people that died at 50 back then was most likely due to indians...bullets ..knives..ect ...they didnt have all the environmental toxins around back then that are crippling us today...those old timers were tough..many of the old prospectors back then were in their 70's and 80's and they would put us to shame hiking out in the hills...you cant compare those old timers to us today...