Are all waterways considered public use and therefore legal for MDing?

[dognose]

Typically the state DNR publishes regulations stating which water ways are private and which are considered public.


In Indiana this is known as the Navigable Waterways Roster : Navigable Waterways Roster


I have a large creek flowing through two of my properties and had many folks debate over the years that they have rights to my property on the water. They did not.


Since I live on the property, if they would of asked me if they could be there I likely would of granted access. But to insist they can be there after I discover them, well I cant abide that.


Property rights relative to Indiana waterways often are determined by whether the waterway is "navigable." Both common law and statutory law make distinctions founded upon whether a river, stream, embayment, or lake is navigable.


In 1950 Indiana Supreme Court stated that the test for determining navigability is whether a waterway: was available and susceptible for navigation according to the general rules of river transportation at the time [1816] Indiana was admitted to the Union. It does not depend on whether it is now navigable.
The true test seems to be the capacity of the stream, rather than the manner or extent of use. And the mere fact that the presence of sandbars or driftwood or stone, or other objects, which at times render the stream unfit for transportation, does not destroy its actual capacity and susceptibility for that use.

 

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[huntsman53]

This expired last year, if they haven't reissued it, you're golden (I would think...)

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5379632.pdf

From all of the information I have found and found out via phone calls, all Rivers and Lakes within National Forest Boundaries here in the East are off limits to metal detecting with the exception of some beaches and parking locations. Also in North Carolina, most rivers, streams and creeks are not public domain outside of road "Right of Ways" and if a river, stream or creek flows through an individual's property, then they own the river, stream or creek that flows through the property, even the river, stream or creek bed. In Tennessee, that is not the case if the rivers, streams or creeks have wild/native fish in them, then the State of Tennessee owns the waterway outside of TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) controlled/owned waterways and lands. In other words, if the rivers, streams or creeks in Tennessee have wild/native fish in them, then you can walk or metal detect them as long as you stay in the water and have entered them from public domain such as a roadway bridge with "Right of Way" and as long as they are not in the National Forest or controlled/owned by TVA.


Frank

 

[Tom_in_CA]

From all of the information I have found and found out via phone calls, all Rivers and Lakes within National Forest Boundaries here in the East are off limits to metal detecting with the exception of some beaches and parking locations.....

But you are not forbidden to simply be standing there , right ? Doing something else like skipping stones on that creek or pond , right ? Because last I checked, there's plenty of national forest rivers and lakes where you can stand there and whistle dixie to your heart's content. So can you link whatever it is you're referring to that says you can't metal detect at those locations ... "except some beaches and parking locations" ? Ie.: whoever you talked to via those phone calls .... did they have some law or rule they referenced to back up that ?

Because I have a few links that says NFS is ok to hunt at. Oh sure, it's then within ARPA (so technically you gotta turn in coins over 50 yrs. old, so your math skills are at stake !!). But otherwise not forbidden. You can just be looking for modern coins (that's the ticket).

 

[huntsman53]

But you are not forbidden to simply be standing there , right ? Doing something else like skipping stones on that creek or pond , right ? Because last I checked, there's plenty of national forest rivers and lakes where you can stand there and whistle dixie to your heart's content. So can you link whatever it is you're referring to that says you can't metal detect at those locations ... "except some beaches and parking locations" ? Ie.: whoever you talked to via those phone calls .... did they have some law or rule they referenced to back up that ?

Because I have a few links that says NFS is ok to hunt at. Oh sure, it's then within ARPA (so technically you gotta turn in coins over 50 yrs. old, so your math skills are at stake !!). But otherwise not forbidden. You can just be looking for modern coins (that's the ticket).

Tom,

No, you are not forbidden to stand in a river, stream, creek, lake or pond that is managed by the National Forest Service or controlled by TVA here! Although I have not posted prohibitions or restrictions on TVA waters or land, it is a matter of Public Record which can be obtained online or via a telephone call. I have posted information about National Forest Service managed lands here in other forum posts and will not go into depth again on the subject! Although the Department of Agriculture's website for National Forests here in the East may state that metal detecting is allowed, they leave the decision of allowing or disallowing of metal detecting up to the Head Ranger over a specific District. You can call the USDA's National Forest Service Office in Cleveland, Tennessee at (423) 476-9700 and get the low down yourself.


Frank

 

[SweetCorn]

I won't comment on the part of your post regarding TVA. But as for the NFS part : Yes, it's subject to Arpa. Hence so long as items you find aren't 50 yrs. old or older, you're fine. And some have even said the cutoff is 100 yrs. But either way: You're fine so long as you're angling for modern items. In fact, NFS even has express ALLOWANCE for md'ing (versus being simply silent on the subject):

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5261774.pdf

That link is absolute $$$, thank you.

Just avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments.

 

[huntsman53]

As I previously stated, that although the Department of Agriculture's website for National Forests here in the East may state that metal detecting is allowed, they leave the decision of allowing or disallowing of metal detecting up to the Head Ranger over a specific District. It is best to check with the appropriate people (in this case, the District and Regional Head Rangers) before metal detecting any National Forests here in the East. Ignorance of the rules, prohibitions and restrictions, is not a good defense in a Court of Law! People lose $3,000 to $7,000 Four Wheelers and other ATV's all the time in the East because they did not check the National Forest Service district and regional rules, prohibitions and restrictions.


Frank

 

[Tom_in_CA]

As I previously stated, that although the Department of Agriculture's website for National Forests here in the East may state that metal detecting is allowed, they leave the decision of allowing or disallowing of metal detecting up to the Head Ranger over a specific District. It is best to check with the appropriate people (in this case, the District and Regional Head Rangers) before metal detecting any National Forests here in the East. Ignorance of the rules, prohibitions and restrictions, is not a good defense in a Court of Law! People lose $3,000 to $7,000 Four Wheelers and other ATV's all the time in the East because they did not check the National Forest Service district and regional rules, prohibitions and restrictions.


Frank

Frank, thanx for chiming in . On the one hand you agree that NFS is not specifically forbidden (heck, even a specific allowance). But you say:

"... they leave the decision of allowing or disallowing of metal detecting up to the Head Ranger over a specific District....."

Sure, anyone in authority can make judgements if yours or my's actions fall afoul of some ancillary rule . Eg.: hurting the shrubbery, bothering wildlife, cultural heritage, etc.... But the way I'm interpreting that, is that they can tell you "scram" or "stop", if they so decided. NOT that this power of theirs to decides mandates that you or I go in ahead of time asking their permission. (lest you bump into the psychology of "no one cared .... UNTIL you asked")

It would be akin to this: A ranger could come up to you in the campground and say "please turn your boom box volume down". Right ? The decision is left up to him. But this does not mean, ergo .... that Huntsman53 is required to go to the ranger station ahead of time and ask: "Hi. Can I please play my boombox at volume level 5 ?". No. Of course not. Hence that power of theirs that you allude to is just saying they can come say "you can't do that". NOT that you have to go in ahead of time asking.

As for the $3k to $7k fines you allude to: Do you have any examples of md'rs getting fines like that for NFS land ? Assuming of course we're not talking of a) obvious sensitive historic landmarks, or b) someone who can't take a warning. If so, please let us know.

 

[sprailroad]

To me the NFS is like the IRS, out of control.