Anyone know how to use IRA to buy physical metals?

[signal]

I want to use some of my IRA to buy precious metals, but I don't want a paper certificate, I want to physically hold the metal. I don't care if I have to setup some trust/entity or whatever, I just don't like the idea of electronic or paper ownership. If all hell breaks loose with the financial/banking industry, and we have a meltdown, I want to know I have got my metals!

Not sure if there is any way to do this, I have read some stuff online but figured that some here may have some good experience in this area. I have a self directed IRA now (traditional).

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[pong12211]

It all depends on if you can draw money out of it and what the penalties if any are for early withdrawl. But I don't belive they are going to just let you buy precious metals with the money. The best your probably going to be able to do is maybe change your investments around to precious metals but I think it's doubtful you will be able to actually put your hands on the metals you want to buy. Just my opinion.

 

[signal]

It all depends on if you can draw money out of it and what the penalties if any are for early withdrawl. But I don't belive they are going to just let you buy precious metals with the money. The best your probably going to be able to do is maybe change your investments around to precious metals but I think it's doubtful you will be able to actually put your hands on the metals you want to buy. Just my opinion.

pong i have a self directed IRA, I can buy whatever (well almost whatever) I want with it.......which includes metals. There would be no deductions or penalties, as I am not talking about removing the money from the IRA, just investing the money from the IRA into metals. I just want to be able to physically hold on to my metals.

 

[pong12211]

I understand what you are saying. But being able to physically hold onto the metals would be the same as removing money from the IRA is what i'm saying. I dont believe they will allow this. The only way they are going to allow you to but precious metals is to redirect your money in it as an investment and give you a statement showing the investment.

 

[SilverHoarder07]

I understand what you are saying. But being able to physically hold onto the metals would be the same as removing money from the IRA is what i'm saying. I dont believe they will allow this. The only way they are going to allow you to but precious metals is to redirect your money in it as an investment and give you a statement showing the investment.

Who exactly is they? I imagine the IRS?

Like the OP stated he can take funds from his existing IRA Tax and penalty free and move them into any investment via an IRA Rollover to include physical precious metals. Similar to any IRA you would need to document the funds being used to purchase the silver and be able to show physical IRA approved silver if/when audited.

Now that being said, you cannot hold the metals yourself. You need an approved depository to do this for you.

There is lots of info online about this. You would have 60 days from your initial withdraw to complete the purchase and finalize your new IRA investment. If it takes longer, penalties will follow.
http://finance.zacks.com/buy-physical-silver-selfdirected-ira-1337.html

 

[bradley1719]

There are very specific rules about investing in PM's as part of an IRA. You can't just buy any old silver coin. The PM's must be approved for use in an IRA. Additionally, you can't hold them yourself. They must be held by an IRA "custodian" that allows such a thing. That's the way IRA's work. If you could simply take your money out of an IRA and do whatever you wanted with it, then the IRS would have no accountability or visibility over what is going on.

Here is what Provident Metals has to say about PM IRA's. You'll have to scroll down to the bottom section if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

FAQ: Buying Silver & Gold, Bullion, Collectibles from Provident Metals

 

[SilverHoarder07]

The "they" is the IRS. There are very specific rules about investing in PM's as part of an IRA. You can't just buy any old silver coin. The PM's must be approved for use in an IRA. Additionally, you can't hold them yourself. They must be held by an IRA "custodian" that allows such a thing. That's the way IRA's work. If you could simply take your money out of an IRA and do whatever you wanted with it, then the IRS would have no accountability or visibility over what is going on.

Here is what Provident Metals has to say about PM IRA's. You'll have to scroll down to the bottom section.

FAQ: Buying Silver & Gold, Bullion, Collectibles from Provident Metals

Ahhh you quoted me before I could edit in the portion about storing of the physical....but alas, you are correct.

IRA APPROVED does not include collectibles.

 

[bradley1719]

Ahhh you quoted me before I could edit in the portion about storing of the physical....but alas, you are correct.

IRA APPROVED does not include collectibles.

I edited out your quote. You included some very good additional info in your edited version.

 

[signal]

Guys, I have gotten some good answers on this and also checking into it.

It CAN be done. The key is, the gold must be in the form of Eagles or other approved coins. For example they can't be the older "double eagles". Also it can not be bouillon as that requires a custodian.

If you wish to look into how people are doing this, look into "checkbook IRA". Basically in a nutshell:

1. You create a self directed IRA
2. The IRA creates an LLC, of which you are not a member
3. You are made Manager of the LLC
4. The LLC buys assets (hard loans, real estate, precious metals, even start your own business)

It gives you amazing control over your IRA. There are some rules to follow and some prohibited transactions to be aware of. In some cases a trust is made instead of an LLC.

But in short, yes you can have checkbook control of your IRA, buy gold, store it physically where you want and have access to it.

 

[SilverHoarder07]

I edited out your quote. You included some very good additional info in your edited version.

I appreciate that. I tend to omit things when submitting replies via my cell.

The short of it, this can be done but should be done with caution. Remember that PMs don't pay dividends and in the long run we may see prices double or triple what they are now but what has happened to other investments in the same time frame? Did they lag behind or are they miles ahead?

 

[signal]

I appreciate that. I tend to omit things when submitting replies via my cell.

The short of it, this can be done but should be done with caution. Remember that PMs don't pay dividends and in the long run we may see prices double or triple what they are now but what has happened to other investments in the same time frame? Did they lag behind or are they miles ahead?

SilverHoarder, I get your point. The concern I have, is that when you hold paper that represents a physical asset, thats not very comfortable for me. If all hell brakes lose and the stock market crashes, and we have some sort of serious economic meltdown, and everyone is withdrawing their money and selling, I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my gold is going to be there for me to get my hands on. What I like about PM is its something physical with value you can hold in your possession.

 

[bradley1719]

SilverHoarder, I get your point. The concern I have, is that when you hold paper that represents a physical asset, thats not very comfortable for me. If all hell brakes lose and the stock market crashes, and we have some sort of serious economic meltdown, and everyone is withdrawing their money and selling, I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my gold is going to be there for me to get my hands on. What I like about PM is its something physical with value you can hold in your possession.

There are pros and cons to both physical and paper. But it sounds like your best option is to use non-IRA funds and just buy what you want so that you can keep it in your own hands. Getting involved with IRA PM's is probably not the best move based on what you've said so far.

Good luck.

 

[SilverHoarder07]

SilverHoarder, I get your point. The concern I have, is that when you hold paper that represents a physical asset, thats not very comfortable for me. If all hell brakes lose and the stock market crashes, and we have some sort of serious economic meltdown, and everyone is withdrawing their money and selling, I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my gold is going to be there for me to get my hands on. What I like about PM is its something physical with value you can hold in your possession.

In that regard I agree with you. I have a considerable amount (to me) in physical PMs. That being said I also have other investments such as a roth 401k, traditional IRA, a few trivial CDs and most recently investment real estate.

I suppose what I am saying is let's diversify and follow the old saying "don't put all of your eggs in one basket." I have seen this go awry for others and even had a mild taste of it myself. No matter what your course of action, let us know if it works for you and your experiences.

 

[signal]

SilverHoarder, I assume you meant Roth IRA and not Roth 401k.

Whether its in an IRA, 401k or neither, you can diversify all you want. I like this idea of a checkbook IRA as then I have complete control over what I invest in. Hard money lending, tax debt, account receivables.........you can diversify like never before!

PM's are a great investment because they will never goto $0. Stocks can implode, and your $200/share company can be worth pennies, eventually de-listed and out of business! That won't/can't happen with PM's, they may go up/down but will always have value.

Also, yes of course its easiest with non-IRA funds. I just have a lot of IRA funds and so wanted to put some of that to work for me. I don't like the idea of buying "paper" gold or other PM's, regardless if its IRA or non-IRA.......if I own gold I want to have it in my possession.

 

[Marchas45]

@ Signal did you talk with AGXIIK ? The guy is a wiz. Charlie

 

[signal]

@ Signal did you talk with AGXIIK ? The guy is a wiz. Charlie

Not yet, I tried to join the site he is on but it gave me troubles, so I am going to try to join again. It may be that I just have to wait to be approved. I filled out the form and stuff but have not gotten any emails yet with my account info.

 

[SilverHoarder07]

SilverHoarder, I assume you meant Roth IRA and not Roth 401k.

Nope, I meant Roth 401k....here is a quick explanation courtesy of wiki.

The Roth 401(k) is a type of retirement savings plan. It was authorized by the United States Congress under the Internal Revenue Code, section 402A,[1] and represents a unique combination of features of the Roth IRA and a traditional 401(k) plan. Since January 1, 2006, U.S. employers have been allowed to amend their 401(k) plan document to allow employees to elect Roth IRA type tax treatment for a portion or all of their retirement plan contributions. The same change in law allowed Roth IRA type contributions to 403(b) retirement plans. The Roth retirement plan provision was enacted as a provision of the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA 2001).

 

[curve1208]

SilverHoarder, I assume you meant Roth IRA and not Roth 401k.

Whether its in an IRA, 401k or neither, you can diversify all you want. I like this idea of a checkbook IRA as then I have complete control over what I invest in. Hard money lending, tax debt, account receivables.........you can diversify like never before!

PM's are a great investment because they will never goto $0. Stocks can implode, and your $200/share company can be worth pennies, eventually de-listed and out of business! That won't/can't happen with PM's, they may go up/down but will always have value.

Also, yes of course its easiest with non-IRA funds. I just have a lot of IRA funds and so wanted to put some of that to work for me. I don't like the idea of buying "paper" gold or other PM's, regardless if its IRA or non-IRA.......if I own gold I want to have it in my possession.

Guys, I have gotten some good answers on this and also checking into it.

It CAN be done. The key is, the gold must be in the form of Eagles or other approved coins. For example they can't be the older "double eagles". Also it can not be bouillon as that requires a custodian.

If you wish to look into how people are doing this, look into "checkbook IRA". Basically in a nutshell:

1. You create a self directed IRA
2. The IRA creates an LLC, of which you are not a member
3. You are made Manager of the LLC
4. The LLC buys assets (hard loans, real estate, precious metals, even start your own business)

It gives you amazing control over your IRA. There are some rules to follow and some prohibited transactions to be aware of. In some cases a trust is made instead of an LLC.

But in short, yes you can have checkbook control of your IRA, buy gold, store it physically where you want and have access to it.

Have you gone ahead and created a checkbook IRA, signal? We're thinking of doing this specifically in order to buy precious metals to physically hold. The shit hitting the fan referred to here back in 2015 is indeed fast approaching.

I'm especially interested in knowing about tax ramifications of buying physical PM in this way. If we create a checkbook IRA, fund it from our traditional ones, and use the funds to buy PM, is the tax imposed for that year, deferred, avoided? I appreciate any input on this.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Just buy the gold and put it away yourself.
If things get bad enough that you will need the gold then the IRA will already be worthless anyway. No reason to mix a fiat investment with real money that you can keep with you.

 

[mdc002]

I want to use some of my IRA to buy precious metals, but I don't want a paper certificate, I want to physically hold the metal. I don't care if I have to setup some trust/entity or whatever, I just don't like the idea of electronic or paper ownership. If all hell breaks loose with the financial/banking industry, and we have a meltdown, I want to know I have got my metals!

Not sure if there is any way to do this, I have read some stuff online but figured that some here may have some good experience in this area. I have a self directed IRA now (traditional).

i would consult an investment councilor instead of asking here.