Anyone good with pre war to civil war uniform patches?

[AeroMike]

Here are two patches recently found in an attic. The story with these patches are that the person who found them in the family house remembers that many many years ago a grandfather purchased these patches in Charleston and were said to be from a South Carolina unit. I do not have any books on this and wanted to know if anyone here who might be knowledgable with these can help me to me this guy out.
thanks

OK, here is another pic he sent me. He says they seems to be about 2 inches.

 

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[Monty]

Any object for size reference? It resembles shoulder boards depending on how big they are. Monty

 

[AeroMike]

Any object for size reference? It resembles shoulder boards depending on how big they are. Monty

I will see if the guy can take a pic with a scale.

 

[Montana Jim]

I do believe they represent the Ordinance Corps...

 

[GpSnoopy]

I concur with it being an insignia for the Ordanance Dept. Whether it's a hat insignia or shoulder boards, and what regiment or division, I leave up to the experts.

#24 in this link. http://www.crescentcitysutler.com/hat-insignia.html

Chapter 16 in this google book reference. Long link, btw.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=trb...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

 

[Monty]

Too small for shoulder boards, likely a hat or arm patch. I think we're close to solving it. Been looking for pics of civil war unit insignia. Found www.ushist.com/wardrobe/american_civil_war/confederate/insignia and it showed two similar, one was gold and one was silver. It says the small ones go on the uniform and the large ones go on the cap, but it doesn't differentiate as to what is large or small. I think this is solved. Monty

Oops! Can't get the link to work now! I googled Pictures of Civil War uniform Insignias and that's what came up? Monty

 

[Montana Jim]

New line of thought...

Navy sleeve insiginia.

Ordnance Technician. A gold embroidered, flaming, spherical shell, placed on the sleeve, flame upward, perpendicular to the stripe.

 

[Montana Jim]

Okay... I think I might have it.

Blue background means Navy.

I found this old-azzed pic and I think we're looking at the "Chief Gunner" or "Gunner" insignia here.

What do you think??



http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~worldwarone/WWI/Uniforms/

Or looking further it might be a French army collar patch - but I don't think so. Almost ALL armys borrowed the ordnance design from the French.

 

[AeroMike]

All great replies guys, keep them coming. I will ask him what color exactly the clothe is, (this is why it is hard to help someone out when you do not have the item to physically look at, lol). I guess it could either be black or blue.

 

[AeroMike]

Just spoke with the guy again and he says the material is black.

civil war time to include pre and post times, did officers have stuff like these made privately? if so, that would seem to make it hard to date it. but I am thinking on having him contact a museum to see if they can help him out too.

 

[Montana Jim]

Officers DID often have their own uniforms made, their own patches (which might explain the sequins), and their own gold buttons from Europe.

Look at General "What the hell is a uniform" Custer's uniforms!

We might also consider that they are not real and grandpa bought some counterfeit patches...

 

[AeroMike]

Officers DID often have their own uniforms made, their own patches (which might explain the sequins), and their own gold buttons from Europe.

Look at General "What the hell is a uniform" Custer's uniforms!

We might also consider that they are not real and grandpa bought some counterfeit patches...

Jim, I think anything is really possible. There will be a really good civil war show here in Charleston in January and I am trying to talk this guy into letting me bring them to the show or have him come to the show with them. Someone there should be able to verify or deny them.

 

[Montana Jim]

Officers DID often have their own uniforms made, their own patches (which might explain the sequins), and their own gold buttons from Europe.

Look at General "What the hell is a uniform" Custer's uniforms!

We might also consider that they are not real and grandpa bought some counterfeit patches...

Jim, I think anything is really possible. There will be a really good civil war show here in Charleston in January and I am trying to talk this guy into letting me bring them to the show or have him come to the show with them. Someone there should be able to verify or deny them.

Great idea Let us know!

 

[AeroMike]

Alright, I went to the Charleston Civil War show this past weekend and I was talking with a guy that knew exactly what these are. They are patches that were worn on Swallowtail militia uniforms, pre-civil war and into the civil war. They apparently stopped using them after the civil war. He said a set just like them recently sold for $200 and actually showed me a pic of them. We compared them and they were almost identical. So I passed this info along to my friend and he was surprised that they may be worth that much.

 

[Montana Jim]

Great Follow-Up!