Any advice on who can make an escudo reproduction?

[Maritime]

My brother-in-law down in south Florida would like to know if anyone's making nice reproduction escudos -- apparently wants to have one made for his wife with gold from a Krugerrand or two he has laying around. Any advice appreciated.

 

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[cuzcosquirrel]

I'm working on a different technique right now and am in the middle of troubleshooting it, but give me an idea of what year, mint, denomination, and special type.

 

[divewrecks]

I'm working on a different technique right now and am in the middle of troubleshooting it, but give me an idea of what year, mint, denomination, and special type.

I look forward to any results you are willing to share. Lost wax?

Stan

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I was trying to make a die to stamp the gold. It didn't work on this attempt. I am going to have to think around it some more. I did come up with a great solution for making the die faces from wax and trying to cast them.

Yeah, I can always make lost wax ones. The thickness of the coin seems to be the only real detail problem. I have a work around for this, but I wanted to see how my equipment would work to make a striking die.

 

[divewrecks]

I REALLY want to make or buy a striking die. I never considered casting one, which is kind of dumb since I work in the metallic materials group of a major aerospace prime. Our casting specialist sits close by. I will ask him about it when he gets back from vacation. What material or alloy were you planning on making the casting from?

Stan

 

[Saturna]

Is it worth paying someone to make one from a Krugerrand ?

Just buy the real thing for probably similar money.

http://www.sedwickcoins.com/gold_cobs.htm



Jay

 

[Zephyr]

One thought about making a replica is to personalize it with the wife's name. Would make it very unique....

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

My casting guy is not responding either, so it would probably be a no go until I get in touch with him.

I was trying to work out some high detail casting. My machine may be unable to do it. I was using a silver alloy, and will probably try it again. I may also try a mixed material mold using some brass metal filler. I may just go on and get somebody to make them up from my waxes.

The fake gold 8 1714-1732 escudos use a type of casting technology partially based on what I am doing. It is why the sheild side has so little top detail.

 

[divewrecks]

I was thinking of casting the die from precipitation hardening stainless steel or titanium, possibly using a casting vendor that we do business with if I could find one willing to do it. Do you make your wax models from a silicone mold taken directly from a coin? It sounds like you already have something like that. I have a little experience casting RTV silicone in our lab. I don't have a high relief coin to use though. I guess I could practice making wax models from a replica coin.

Stan

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I was considering using a high pressure commercial casting service. No, I do not direct copy from sample coins. I make up the design of the entire coin.

It seems like the guy I worked with is now deceased. OP seemed more intrested in finding out about it than actually doing it.

 

[divewrecks]

I'll keep studying. Maybe we should just machine a couple.

Stan

 

[Maritime]

Thanks, Cuzco -- I doubt he has a preference as to year or date; if you perfect a method, let me know.

Saturna, thanks for linking to Sedwick!

 

[armchairQB30]

Ahem........may I suggest investment casting with H13 tooling burn the dies with electrodes.

You can CNC machine them but you will have machining lines.

Stamping will be too costly and you will never get the dies hot enough to fill.

I am a casting guy 25 years.

 

[divewrecks]

Ahem........may I suggest investment casting with H13 tooling burn the dies with electrodes.

You can CNC machine them but you will have machining lines.

Stamping will be too costly and you will never get the dies hot enough to fill.

I am a casting guy 25 years.

You are refering to die casting, not investment casting which is the term for casting using a wax pattern. When done right incvestment (or "lost wax") casting will produce the highest as-cast quality. The Lockheed F-22 fighter makes extensive use of titanium investment castings which are then electron beam welded together to produce most of the aircraft's primary structure. On the consumer side it is used almost exclusively in custom jewelry and dental applications.

CNC machining has historically been used by the US mint to produce the top level master (hub) for making coin dies. Do a Google search for Janvier transfer-engraving machine.

Stan

 

[Zephyr]

Maybe we should have a contest for the best replica cob/doubloon.

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I have to find somebody new to do the casting. I am going to send a set of dies to be cast to one place and see how it turns out. It will probably be the 1698 mexico 4 esc. with copy replacing CARO in oberse legend.

 

[divewrecks]

My interest is mainly as an educatonal demonstration to show how cobs were made rather than perfection in the finished result.

Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ask the Chinese. Gallery of pics. http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Chinese-Fake-Coin-Minting.htm

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Here's the two blank planchettes I just produced along with one of the Santa Fe De Bogata 2 escudos I made the wax design for and had cast.



The planchettes were made using a cast bar and a rolling mill, with a couple intermittant anealings to repair the grain after some rolling. I then cut them out using a pair of metal clippers.

I thought about how they would have done this using thicker planchettes, as this would obviously be a real bear to try and get enough energy to shear them off a bar. They must have had a strike hammer cutter or a large table affixed shear to do it. The funny barrel shape of the Mexican 8 reals silver cobs probably comes from the fact that they were still using the same machine that they had used for the early pillar and waves coins, which were 4 reals, to cut the planchettes. The extra square pieces at the top and bottom were the excess metal needed to bring the weight up to 8 reals.

 

[divewrecks]

The planchettes were made using a cast bar and a rolling mill, with a couple intermittant anealings to repair the grain after some rolling. I then cut them out using a pair of metal clippers.

Hey, great start CS! A couple of questions if you don't mind sharing. Are they 24K? What cast thickness did you start with? What thickness and weights are your finished blanks? How many interstage anealings?

I thought about how they would have done this using thicker planchettes, as this would obviously be a real bear to try and get enough energy to shear them off a bar.

I think your logic is good and your technique is probably close. Let me look at some of my reference books that make mention blank (planchet) production. If I remember right it is discussed in pretty good detail in the Florida collection books.

They must have had a strike hammer cutter or a large table affixed shear to do it.

I seem to remember having an illustration, I'll look.

The funny barrel shape of the Mexican 8 reals silver cobs probably comes from the fact that they were still using the same machine that they had used for the early pillar and waves coins, which were 4 reals, to cut the planchettes.

Good theory and may explain some of the earlier ones, but wouldn't you also agree that square Mexican coins were common on up through the end of cob production there? There are many barrel shaped cobs in Florida's state owned 1715 collection. Also many other bizzare shapes....

Please keep us updated on your progress. Love hearing about it.

Stan