Another Dutch Hunter Crosses Over

[Azhiker]

I don't know if any are aware but Janice's husband Mason Coggins was very involved with the Arizona Mineral Museum and their acquiring the Stone Maps. Mason was from the Bisbee, Morenci, area of eastern Arizona. Mason was in charge of acquisitions for the Museum for many years. Mason had an office at the Mineral Museum up until his retirement sometime around 1997. I visited there often with Mason and Nyle Nymeth the geologist for the museum. Mason told the story of how the Mineral Museum came into possession of the Stone Maps and how the Flagg Foundation was later involved. I met Janice at their home on a couple occasions, they were both extraordinary people.

Azhiker

 

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[Hal Croves]

"Mason told the story of how the Mineral Museum came into possession of the Stone Maps and how the Flagg Foundation was later involved."

Azhiher,
I for one would appreciate reading your retelling of this story... if you ever feel like sharing it.

 

[TEGlover]

A colleague forwarded the following to me in an email.

“I don't know if any are aware but Janice's husband Mason Coggins was very involved with the Arizona Mineral Museum and their acquiring the Stone Maps. Mason was from the Bisbee, Morenci, area of eastern Arizona. Mason was in charge of acquisitions for the Museum for many years. Mason had an office at the Mineral Museum up until his retirement sometime around 1997. I visited there often with Mason and Nyle Nymeth the geologist for the museum. Mason told the story of how the Mineral Museum came into possession of the Stone Maps and how the Flagg Foundation was later involved. I met Janice at their home on a couple occasions, they were both extraordinary people”

Thought it appropriate to elaborate on a couple of things. So I registered and …

First, Mason Coggin was not enamored with the Stone Maps. When asked about them one of his favorite replies was: “Give me a Dremel Tool and I’ll make you all the stone maps you want.” He said this to me more than once as the subject came up in my book.

Second, Mason and Janice both came from Bisbee, and Mason certainly had an office at the old Department of Mines and Mineral Resources (DMMR). He was the director of the DMMR – who, I believe, at that time ran the Arizona Mineral Museum

Third, Mason told me back circa 1998/’97 he had worked for the DMMR for only five years. That the DMMR was the first salaried position he had had in years. He worked most of his life as a consultant and traveled much of the globe as an expert in mining and geology. He would often say that to be a good mining engineer one had to be one hell of a geologist!

Fourth, the DMMR never owned the Stone Maps. The maps were loaned to the DMMR. There is a paper trail to this statement. That paper trail is documented in one of my new books: Treasure Tales of the Superstitions - Clues, Maps and Twice Told Tales. That book will follow the first book, Jacob Waltz and the Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine. Both books are now at the editors.

And yes, Mason and Janice were extraordinary people! I have missed Mason for many years and often wished I could simply take one more trip into the back country to old mining sites and listen to him tell about the geology, and the whats and wherefores of what happened and didn’t happen. The day we went to Rich Hill was one for the books!

Thank you (I am not one for normally posting to forums so this is likely to be a singleton)

T E Glover

 

[cactusjumper]

A colleague forwarded the following to me in an email.

“I don't know if any are aware but Janice's husband Mason Coggins was very involved with the Arizona Mineral Museum and their acquiring the Stone Maps. Mason was from the Bisbee, Morenci, area of eastern Arizona. Mason was in charge of acquisitions for the Museum for many years. Mason had an office at the Mineral Museum up until his retirement sometime around 1997. I visited there often with Mason and Nyle Nymeth the geologist for the museum. Mason told the story of how the Mineral Museum came into possession of the Stone Maps and how the Flagg Foundation was later involved. I met Janice at their home on a couple occasions, they were both extraordinary people”

Thought it appropriate to elaborate on a couple of things. So I registered and …

First, Mason Coggin was not enamored with the Stone Maps. When asked about them one of his favorite replies was: “Give me a Dremel Tool and I’ll make you all the stone maps you want.” He said this to me more than once as the subject came up in my book.

Second, Mason and Janice both came from Bisbee, and Mason certainly had an office at the old Department of Mines and Mineral Resources (DMMR). He was the director of the DMMR – who, I believe, at that time ran the Arizona Mineral Museum

Third, Mason told me back circa 1998/’97 he had worked for the DMMR for only five years. That the DMMR was the first salaried position he had had in years. He worked most of his life as a consultant and traveled much of the globe as an expert in mining and geology. He would often say that to be a good mining engineer one had to be one hell of a geologist!

Fourth, the DMMR never owned the Stone Maps. The maps were loaned to the DMMR. There is a paper trail to this statement. That paper trail is documented in one of my new books: Treasure Tales of the Superstitions - Clues, Maps and Twice Told Tales. That book will follow the first book, Jacob Waltz and the Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine. Both books are now at the editors.

And yes, Mason and Janice were extraordinary people! I have missed Mason for many years and often wished I could simply take one more trip into the back country to old mining sites and listen to him tell about the geology, and the whats and wherefores of what happened and didn’t happen. The day we went to Rich Hill was one for the books!

Thank you (I am not one for normally posting to forums so this is likely to be a singleton)

T E Glover

Thomas,

I have no argument with what you have just written, except for this: There is no doubt in my mind that anyone with a modicum of talent, and the proper tools, could create something similar to the Stone Maps. What they could not do without intimate knowledge of the range, and it's legends/stories, is match the accuracy of the map.

Hope you are both well and enjoying life.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Azhiker]

TEGlover

Thought it appropriate to elaborate on a couple of things.

First: No one said Masson Coggins was enamoured or even interested in the Stone Maps. But thank you for your input.

Second: Yes, as stated Mason was from Bissbee and he worked for the Mineral Museum.

Third: Yes, as stated I believe Mason was director of the Mineral Museum between 1993 and 1997 which would be about 5 years. When the 5 mining companies ( Phelps Dodge, ASARCO, Peabody, Inspiration and AMSCO) took over the Mineral Museum, Mason, who was working as a geologist/consultant for Phelps Dodge, was put in charge of the 5 mining companies interest at the museum. Phelps Dodge was the head of the mining group as they were the largest contributor. Mason worked on many acquisition projects from the time he represented the Mining companies until his retirement which I believe was about 1997. I don't know if this was a salary or honorary position, I never asked.

Fourth: No one said the DMMR owned the Stone Maps. What was said was the Mineral Museum acquired the Stone Maps. The Arizona Mineral Museum at the time of the acquisition was operated by the 5 mining companies, not the DMMR. If your paper trail includes the document the Museum-Flagg association has, signed by AL Flagg dated 1989, you may want to take another look at that documentation. AL Flagg died in 1961. There are several other glaring issues within that documentation that are not consistant. Even Lee Hammons, the man who supposedly accepted the Stone Maps, cannot remember who donated them or how they came to be at the Museum. I asked him and he said he could not remember.

Fifth: Yes, I still believe Mason and Janice Coggins were special people.

Thank you. I don't have an interest in the Stone Maps one way or the other, only posted as a tribute to Janice and Mason.

Azhiker

 

[cactusjumper]

TEGlover

Thought it appropriate to elaborate on a couple of things.

First: No one said Masson Coggins was enamoured or even interested in the Stone Maps. But thank you for your input.

Second: Yes, as stated Mason was from Bissbee and he worked for the Mineral Museum.

Third: Yes, as stated I believe Mason was director of the Mineral Museum between 1993 and 1997 which would be about 5 years. When the 5 mining companies ( Phelps Dodge, ASARCO, Peabody, Inspiration and AMSCO) took over the Mineral Museum, Mason who was working as a geologist for Phelps Dodge was put in charge of the 5 mining companies interest in the museum. Phelps Dodge was the head of the mining group as they were the largest contributor. Mason worked on many acquisition projects from the time he represented the Mining companies until his retirement which I believe was about 1997. I don't know if this was a salary or honorary position, I never asked.

Fourth: No one said the DMMR owned the Stone Maps. What was said was the Mineral Museum acquired the Stone Maps. The Arizona Mineral Museum at the time of the acquisition was operated by the 5 mining companies, not the DMMR. If your paper trail includes the document the Museum-Flagg association has, signed by AL Flagg dated 1989, you may want to take another look at that documentation. AL Flagg died in 1961. There are several other glaring issues within that documentation that are not consistant. Even Lee Hammons, the man who supposedly accepted the Stone Maps, cannot remember who donated them or how they came to be at the Museum. I asked him and he said he could not remember.

Fifth: Yes, I still believe Mason and Janice Coggins were special people.

Thank you. I don't have an interest in the Stone Maps one way or the other, only posted as a tribute to Janice and Mason.

Azhiker

AZhiker,

Speaking only for myself, I consider it a piece of luck to have Dr. Glover post here......at all. The cadence of your posts seems like something I have read many times over the years.

Please continue.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,

TEGlover posted specifically to my post with misleading and incorrect information as well as inferring I said or thought things I didn't say or think. I merely corrected his mistakes. If that offended you I'm sorry. You have a history of stalking me every time I make a post with criptic references and mysterious sayings that have nothing to do with what I posted. Now you say the cadance of my posts is someting you have read many times. I don't know what you are talking about but if you have something to say come out and say it or stop stalking me with your wierd and creepy musings. I'm sure you see and hear things all the time that seem real to you. I can't help you with that, I'm not a trained professional.

Azhiker

AZhiker,

Sorry you feel that way. For the most part I am simply responding to your posts, or rather Spirit's posts. I admit my mind is a little confused these days, so it would follow that mistaking you for someone who I used to call friend would not be out of place.

Please continue,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

"cactusjumper,

You are not responding to what I post, you use my post and respond to it with creepy, weird messages that are rolling around in your head and have no relation to me. Now spirit is involved. I'm going to say it one more time, if you have something to say to me , say it, or stop with following me around the forum posting crazy weird things that are rolling around in your head. I'm sorry your confused these days, thats clearly evident. All I want to do is post opinions to people about actual SUBJECT TOPICS and reply to people about the TOPIC, not about imaginary people or things or voices I hear in my head. Maybe you should see someone about that confusion issue, seriously.

Azhiker"
_______________________________________

Azhiker,

Sorry you feel that way.

Please continue,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,

Sorry you feel that way.

Please continue and hopefully you can stick to the topics in the future,

Azhiker

Azhiker,

This is my topic, and you are the one who took it off subject. Since it is my thread, I don't need you to tell me what to post. For your information, the topic is: "Another Dutch Hunter Crosses Over." If you want to use it to school Dr. Glover, I would suggest you start your own topic.

Thank you for your reply.

Please continue,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Garry]

I'm always interested in documents!!!!!

Azhiker, you wrote;

The AL Flagg foundation has none of this concerning the Stone Maps. What they have is a document made up decades after the fact, signed by neither the donator or the acceptor, back dated, a signature and date by a man who died 9 years before the item was donated and 28 years before the paper was drawn up, and no reference to the condition or value of the donated item.


​

If your paper trail includes the document the Museum-Flagg association has, signed by AL Flagg dated 1989, you may want to take another look at that documentation. AL Flagg died in 1961. There are several other glaring issues within that documentation that are not consistant. Even Lee Hammons, the man who supposedly accepted the Stone Maps, cannot remember who donated them or how they came to be at the Museum. I asked him and he said he could not remember.


​

Do you have a copy of this document or have you only seen or heard about it?

If you have a copy could you please share the image or images with the forum?

Thanks in advance,

Garry

 

[Azhiker]

garry,

cactusjumper posted this to me :

Azhiker,

This is my topic, and you are the one who took it off subject. Since it is my thread, I don't need you to tell me what to post. For your information, the topic is: "Another Dutch Hunter Crosses Over."

I did not take the topic off subject, merely responded to direct comments about my post which was on the topic of Dutch Hunters crossing over. However, I respect cactusjumpers thread and will not post off topic in it. Out of respect for his wishes, I have deleted my posts which were in response to cactusjumper's posts to me, which were not on the subject of the topic.

Azhiker

 

[cactusjumper]

Garry and KR,

Thank you for your input. This topic will be reserved for those Dutch Hunter's who have crossed over, and comments about their history. Touching briefly on the Stone Maps, or other topics they were interested in, or connected to, seems appropriate.

Thank you again, and please continue,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

It is with great sadness that I have learned of the passing of Bill Fincham. Bill was a real gentleman and had become a permanent fixture at the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous, along with his son Heath. No son could have been more attentive to the needs of his father. I believe I can speak for all of us in saying we will all miss Bill.

Bill sharing the warmth of our campfire with Carolyn and Sharon.

Joe

 

[393stroker]

CJ, I`m sorry to hear that your friend passed away. Take care, Chuck

 

[peralta]

I know that the angels are taking care of him,my condolences to the family.
Tom

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

old age sure sucks

god bless.

 

[Loke]

oh no! I'm so sorry to hear of Bill's demise.
Heath - if you are reading this - my heart goes out to you!

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

We will miss Bill - he was a treasure hunter for many years and knew many people. His son, Heath, was his pride and joy - and was one of the best sons I have ever seen.

To Heath - my sincere condolences - to Billy - God Speed.

Mrs.O

 

[somehiker]

Although it doesn't make it easier to accept such a loss, we can rest assured that Billy is sitting across the same campfire as all those T-Hunters who went before.
He will be missed at ours.

Regards:SH

 

[cactusjumper]

Heath with Baker Looney who was a good friend of Bill's:



Joe