Alexandre

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[NHBandit]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

LOL Sorry these self rightious types get under my skin. Especially when the "cultural heritage" they claim to be so proud of was things they stole from someone else..

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

LOL Sorry these self rightious types get under my skin. Especially when the "cultural heritage" they claim to be so proud of was things they stole from someone else..

I see you use a correct handle BANDIT, So these stolen goods you find what do you do with them , my self rightist friend
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Vamos sentir a sua.
Ossy

 

[NHBandit]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

LOL Sorry these self rightious types get under my skin. Especially when the "cultural heritage" they claim to be so proud of was things they stole from someone else..

I see you use a correct handle BANDIT, So these stolen goods you find what do you do with them , my self rightist friend
Ossy

So please enlighten me as to the rules of this game. How many years have to pass before the items your people looted from others is considered your property and subject to being considered "Spains cultural heritage" ? If you steal something this year you're a thief but if you stole it 300 years ago you're a hero ? At some point can the family of Jesse James demand the return of the money that was recovered when he was killed ? It does get confusing... Psst.. the "Bandit" handle is very old & has nothing to do with being a thief but then again, I don't owe you an explanation either... What stolen goods that I find are you referring to ? I have found plenty of lost items but if I ever found anything that I knew to be stolen I would likely do my best to see that it was returned to the rightful owner, NOT the thief who stole it...

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

LOL Sorry these self rightious types get under my skin. Especially when the "cultural heritage" they claim to be so proud of was things they stole from someone else..

I see you use a correct handle BANDIT, So these stolen goods you find what do you do with them , my self rightist friend
Ossy

So please enlighten me as to the rules of this game. How many years have to pass before the items your people looted from others is considered your property and subject to being considered "Spains cultural heritage" ? If you steal something this year you're a thief but if you stole it 300 years ago you're a hero ? At some point can the family of Jesse James demand the return of the money that was recovered when he was killed ? It does get confusing... Psst.. the "Bandit" handle is very old & has nothing to do with being a thief but then again, I don't owe you an explanation either... What stolen goods that I find are you referring to ? I have found plenty of lost items but if I ever found anything that I knew to be stolen I would likely do my best to see that it was returned to the rightful owner, NOT the thief who stole it...

Read the Friendship agreement the US and Spain signed.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

LOL Sorry these self rightious types get under my skin. Especially when the "cultural heritage" they claim to be so proud of was things they stole from someone else..

I see you use a correct handle BANDIT, So these stolen goods you find what do you do with them , my self rightist friend
Ossy

So please enlighten me as to the rules of this game. How many years have to pass before the items your people looted from others is considered your property and subject to being considered "Spains cultural heritage" ? If you steal something this year you're a thief but if you stole it 300 years ago you're a hero ? At some point can the family of Jesse James demand the return of the money that was recovered when he was killed ? It does get confusing... Psst.. the "Bandit" handle is very old & has nothing to do with being a thief but then again, I don't owe you an explanation either... What stolen goods that I find are you referring to ? I have found plenty of lost items but if I ever found anything that I knew to be stolen I would likely do my best to see that it was returned to the rightful owner, NOT the thief who stole it...

Read the Friendship agreement the US and Spain signed.

Does that pardon previous crimes?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Sheesh, shame on you NH, heheheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

LOL Sorry these self rightious types get under my skin. Especially when the "cultural heritage" they claim to be so proud of was things they stole from someone else..

I see you use a correct handle BANDIT, So these stolen goods you find what do you do with them , my self rightist friend
Ossy

So please enlighten me as to the rules of this game. How many years have to pass before the items your people looted from others is considered your property and subject to being considered "Spains cultural heritage" ? If you steal something this year you're a thief but if you stole it 300 years ago you're a hero ? At some point can the family of Jesse James demand the return of the money that was recovered when he was killed ? It does get confusing... Psst.. the "Bandit" handle is very old & has nothing to do with being a thief but then again, I don't owe you an explanation either... What stolen goods that I find are you referring to ? I have found plenty of lost items but if I ever found anything that I knew to be stolen I would likely do my best to see that it was returned to the rightful owner, NOT the thief who stole it...

Read the Friendship agreement the US and Spain signed.

Does that pardon previous crimes?

The US or Spain

 

[Whittman]

I say good riddance! I did not like his condescending tone at all. Not to mention, this is a treasure hunting forum, right? He was like having a member of PETA on a hunting message board. See ya!

 

[cornelis 816]

Finally my way of posting the things I felt so stronly about are getting some others to post their feelings . Thank you all for thinking a little more about the junk that was posted by the gentleman. Cornelius

 

[Teredo Navalis]

Perhaps the administrators could create Two Treasure boards. One with IQ's below 100 and one with IQ's above 100. That might solve the problem.

 

[Alexandre]

Hi guys

After all cooling down for a couple of days and having received a lot of warming private messages, I decided to keep hanging on. Tough luck, Cornelius.

Now, for a couple of remarks:


1) First, I have my own views over this issue of shipwrecks and you all know what they are. I am not here to preach them to you or to expect you to change your mind. I do it all the time, yes, but to a diferent audience: to divers, to journalists and to the public at large.

2) Second, to all of you that think that I am an armchair archeologist bear in mind that I have more time underwater and in archival research, not only and certainly than the majority of my national archaeologist colleagues, but also more than the majority of people here.

Besides being a technical diver with more than 2000 hours of diving, the majority done in archaeological context, I am also qualified to handle any ship of any length or engine power, in day or night operations.

I am an expert for the International Council for Monuments and Sites, a PhD student in History/Archaeology studying the Correio da Asia, sunk in Australia in 1816, sn invited teacher of the classes of Riverine and Maritime Nautical Archaeology and Maritime Archaeology (Project) for the undegraduate degree in Archaeology at the Universidade Nova de Lisboa.

Currently, I am the lead archaeologist in charge of the Grândola Subaquática project - the survey of a 65 km long stretch of Portuguese coastline, from the shore up to 40 meters deep and the lead archaeologist in charge of the survey, recording and research of the "Primavera", the wrecksite of an Italian steamer sunk 25 meters deep at Berlengas Island (1902).

In the past, I have conducted historical research regarding the 1589 wreck of the Spanish nao Nuestra Señora del Rosario, lost off Grândola coast; the wreck of the probable Bom Jesus, a 1533 Portuguese East Indiaman discovery in 2008 at Oranjemund, Namibia, in cooperation with the Portuguese Archaeological authority (DANS/IGESPAR); the 1837 wreck of the Portuguese slave ship Esperança, lost off the Turks and Caicos Islands, in cooperation with Ships of Discoveries and the urks and Caicos National Museum; the one on the loss of the Correio d’Ázia, a Portuguese galera wrecked at Ningaloo Reef, Australia (1816).

I was the archaeologist in charge of the survey of the Baixa do Broeiro site, a nucleus of iron cannons sunk 30 meters deep at Cabo da Roca, the archaeological co-director of the second survey and recording season of the Arade 23 wrecksite, an early 19th century wooden wreck locate on 3 meters of water at the Arade river, an archaeologist recording and recoverying two early 16th century iron guns, sunk 3 meters deep at the Santo Amaro de Oeiras beach, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority (CNANS/IPA); also on the recording and recovery of three Classical Period lead anchor stocks sunk in 20 meters at Berlengas Island; archaeological co-director of the pre-disturbance survey and excavation of the wrecksite of the 36-gun English frigate HMS Pallas, lost in 1783 off Calheta Harbour, São Jorge Island, Azores, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority (CNANS/IPA) and the Azorean Government Cultural Direction (DRC); archaeological co-director of the pre-disturbance survey of Horta Harbour, Fayal Island, Azores, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority; archaeological director for the historical research, survey and location of the wrecksite of the Nossa Senhora da Luz, a Portuguese East Indiaman lost off Fayal Island, Azores (1615); archaeological director for the historical research, survey and location of the wrecksite of the French bark Caroline, lost off Pico Island, Azores (1901); historical and archaeological assessment for the pre-disturbance phase of the Marina construction project of Quinta do Lorde, Madeira Island; archaeological co-director of both first and second phase of the Angra Bay archaeological rescue project – the recording, dismantling (with Peter Waddel, from Parks Canada) and removal of Angra C and Angra D, two 16th and 17th century wooden wrecks, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority; organizer of the second Azorean Remote Sensing Survey, conducted by Kevin Crisman (INA) in the islands of São Jorge, Pico and Fayal, Azores; archaeologist in charge of the survey of the Santa Cruz das Flores site, a nucleus of iron cannons sunk 15 meters deep at Flores Island, Azores; and an archaeologist during the excavation campaign of the Pepper Wreck, the wrecksite of the probable Portuguese East Indiaman Nossa Senhora dos Mártires sunk in 1606 at São Julião da Barra and the excavation campaign of the wrecksite of Aveiro A, a 16th century wooden wreck located at Costa Nova, Barra de Aveiro; *archaeological co-director of the survey and location of an historical nucleus of c. 30 anchors, lost off the Angra historical anchorage site, from 15 to 30 meters deep; archaeologist in charge of the recording and recovery of a French bronze culverin, dated 1515-1547, from 40 meters deep and its subsequent stabilization and conservation (Terceira Island, Azores); organizer of the first Azorean Remote Sensing Survey, conducted by Kevin Crisman (INA) at Angra bay, Terceira Island, Azores; historian in charge of the Azorean Shipwreck Archaeological Database, with over 600 documented shipwrecks in the archipelago; archaeologist in charge of the recording and survey of Angra A, Angra B and Lidador, three wrecksites in Angra bay (Terceira Island, Azores).

I am and have been around: that Portuguese ship found off Namibia, for example - that story featured in National Geographic Magazine was fully based on my archival research on it; a Pulitzer winner wrote a full book chapter on my operations at the Azores; an 18 page article on German GEO magazine, CNN, BBC, New York Times, TV shows, all are there for those you want to know what's being going in Portugal, in this field, for the past 15 years.

So, if sometimes I sound cocky or full of bull***t, please take it with a grain of salt: it's because, not only I have been there and done it, I have sometimes wrote the book on it.

So, love me or hate me, in the end, and diferent views aside, we all love wrecks. Right?

Cheers.

 

[Alaskan Adventurer]

Hi guys

After all cooling down for a couple of days and having received a lot of warming private messages, I decided to keep hanging on. Tough luck, Cornelius.

Now, for a couple of remarks:


1) First, I have my own views over this issue of shipwrecks and you all know what they are. I am not here to preach them to you or to expect you to change your mind. I do it all the time, yes, but to a diferent audience: to divers, to journalists and to the public at large.

2) Second, to all of you that think that I am an armchair archeologist bear in mind that I have more time underwater and in archival research, not only and certainly than the majority of my national archaeologist colleagues, but also more than the majority of people here.

Besides being a technical diver with more than 2000 hours of diving, the majority done in archaeological context, I am also qualified to handle any ship of any length or engine power, in day or night operations.

I am an expert for the International Council for Monuments and Sites, a PhD student in History/Archaeology studying the Correio da Asia, sunk in Australia in 1816, sn invited teacher of the classes of Riverine and Maritime Nautical Archaeology and Maritime Archaeology (Project) for the undegraduate degree in Archaeology at the Universidade Nova de Lisboa.

Currently, I am the lead archaeologist in charge of the Grândola Subaquática project - the survey of a 65 km long stretch of Portuguese coastline, from the shore up to 40 meters deep and the lead archaeologist in charge of the survey, recording and research of the "Primavera", the wrecksite of an Italian steamer sunk 25 meters deep at Berlengas Island (1902).

In the past, I have conducted historical research regarding the 1589 wreck of the Spanish nao Nuestra Señora del Rosario, lost off Grândola coast; the wreck of the probable Bom Jesus, a 1533 Portuguese East Indiaman discovery in 2008 at Oranjemund, Namibia, in cooperation with the Portuguese Archaeological authority (DANS/IGESPAR); the 1837 wreck of the Portuguese slave ship Esperança, lost off the Turks and Caicos Islands, in cooperation with Ships of Discoveries and the urks and Caicos National Museum; the one on the loss of the Correio d’Ázia, a Portuguese galera wrecked at Ningaloo Reef, Australia (1816).

I was the archaeologist in charge of the survey of the Baixa do Broeiro site, a nucleus of iron cannons sunk 30 meters deep at Cabo da Roca, the archaeological co-director of the second survey and recording season of the Arade 23 wrecksite, an early 19th century wooden wreck locate on 3 meters of water at the Arade river, an archaeologist recording and recoverying two early 16th century iron guns, sunk 3 meters deep at the Santo Amaro de Oeiras beach, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority (CNANS/IPA); also on the recording and recovery of three Classical Period lead anchor stocks sunk in 20 meters at Berlengas Island; archaeological co-director of the pre-disturbance survey and excavation of the wrecksite of the 36-gun English frigate HMS Pallas, lost in 1783 off Calheta Harbour, São Jorge Island, Azores, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority (CNANS/IPA) and the Azorean Government Cultural Direction (DRC); archaeological co-director of the pre-disturbance survey of Horta Harbour, Fayal Island, Azores, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority; archaeological director for the historical research, survey and location of the wrecksite of the Nossa Senhora da Luz, a Portuguese East Indiaman lost off Fayal Island, Azores (1615); archaeological director for the historical research, survey and location of the wrecksite of the French bark Caroline, lost off Pico Island, Azores (1901); historical and archaeological assessment for the pre-disturbance phase of the Marina construction project of Quinta do Lorde, Madeira Island; archaeological co-director of both first and second phase of the Angra Bay archaeological rescue project – the recording, dismantling (with Peter Waddel, from Parks Canada) and removal of Angra C and Angra D, two 16th and 17th century wooden wrecks, for the Portuguese Archaeological authority; organizer of the second Azorean Remote Sensing Survey, conducted by Kevin Crisman (INA) in the islands of São Jorge, Pico and Fayal, Azores; archaeologist in charge of the survey of the Santa Cruz das Flores site, a nucleus of iron cannons sunk 15 meters deep at Flores Island, Azores; and an archaeologist during the excavation campaign of the Pepper Wreck, the wrecksite of the probable Portuguese East Indiaman Nossa Senhora dos Mártires sunk in 1606 at São Julião da Barra and the excavation campaign of the wrecksite of Aveiro A, a 16th century wooden wreck located at Costa Nova, Barra de Aveiro; *archaeological co-director of the survey and location of an historical nucleus of c. 30 anchors, lost off the Angra historical anchorage site, from 15 to 30 meters deep; archaeologist in charge of the recording and recovery of a French bronze culverin, dated 1515-1547, from 40 meters deep and its subsequent stabilization and conservation (Terceira Island, Azores); organizer of the first Azorean Remote Sensing Survey, conducted by Kevin Crisman (INA) at Angra bay, Terceira Island, Azores; historian in charge of the Azorean Shipwreck Archaeological Database, with over 600 documented shipwrecks in the archipelago; archaeologist in charge of the recording and survey of Angra A, Angra B and Lidador, three wrecksites in Angra bay (Terceira Island, Azores).

I am and have been around: that Portuguese ship found off Namibia, for example - that story featured in National Geographic Magazine was fully based on my archival research on it; a Pulitzer winner wrote a full book chapter on my operations at the Azores; an 18 page article on German GEO magazine, CNN, BBC, New York Times, TV shows, all are there for those you want to know what's being going in Portugal, in this field, for the past 15 years.

So, if sometimes I sound cocky or full of bull***t, please take it with a grain of salt: it's because, not only I have been there and done it, I have sometimes wrote the book on it.

So, love me or hate me, in the end, and diferent views aside, we all love wrecks. Right?

Cheers.

Well said, and welcome back. There is plenty of room for the opinions of both treasure hunters and archaeologists here. People need to learn to lighten up, on both sides!

 

[ScubaFinder]

"So, if sometimes I sound cocky or full of bull***t, please take it with a grain of salt: it's because, not only I have been there and done it, I have sometimes wrote the book on it. "

I can agree and respect that, but you also have to realize that many of us have been there and done that also, a few have written books as well. I am in 3 different books written by different archaeologists. We only have opposing views on the sale of certain artifacts, (and I only believe in the sale of coins, and only when you find enough of them that the entire collection becomes a financial burden to store and protect). Anything unique should without a doubt be in a museum. All that aside, try to be nice and we would probably reciprocate.

Jason

 

[Jason in Enid]

Told you he wasn't gone. Trolls never leave unless they get bored.

 

[VOC]

Welcome Back Alexandre, I am sure no one has any hurt feelings over all these debates.

Like I have always said Shipwrecks are only “Interesting” as opposed to “Important”.

Making a healthier, safer and more prosperous life for all our young and for all our elderly is what I believe is “Important”

VOC

 

[hobbit]

I am just a beach and shallow water/relic guy and I spend way too much time swinging a detector and too little time reading and researching. I am always hoping that an accidential find on a remote beach/ river somewhere might lead to an important find...ala Kip Wagner. That is why I read this forum and occasionally ask stupid questions. I have been reading it for around two years now. I,personally, love Alexandre's posts. To an uneducated amateur like myself, he has a lot to offer and he does so willingly. There is an awful lot of negativity on this forum sometimes. Very little of it springs from him.