Alaskan Adventurers Thread/Journals.

[tintin_treasure]

Hello TT It can be both at various times depending on time and place. For small stuff over time yes.....

There is an old saying the bigger the treasure the bigger the trouble. And of course where there is treasure, there is evil never far away. And greed can spark evilest of deeds. Greed my friend can corrupt the nicest of people into a monsters. There is a whole history of stories of how money have wrecked peoples lives through greed and treachery. Even the most powerful of nations can succumb to its lure. Such is power of treasure my friend. Understand that you will learn tread wisely who ya work with and who ya deal with.

Publicity is a doubled edged sword. It can act in part as a insurance policy to keep officials honest, but it can also work against ya also. Many people fantasize about making the big find? But what next?And thats the problems for most people who make a find of life time. They do not realize they have opened the proverbial a can of worms so to speak. As for most people they do not have a clear plan for what next..... And that is when greed kicks in my friend....



Crow

thanks Crow for the insight. Small finds maybe manageable as you say and troubles brew around huge hoards. I guess for vast finds the finder should not be over ambitious. Lets say someone stumbles upon a huge inca treasure the size of a big cave. As you said such a find and the management of it is huge trouble. But in my opinion the wisest thing to do is not to disclose the location,but just stuff one huge bag fill that you can carry and report to the authorities and claim your share. You would say that you just found it in a cave deep in the obscure jungle and that is true.That share would be enough for you for some years. Then at another time 5 years later or so you return to your ''bank'' and again fill your bag and again claim your share and so on...it is when people want to eat more than they chew that trouble arises.This way your integrity is kept intact while obligating the officials to the rules at the same time getting your modest but enough share ... and in between those ''bank'' trips you can search for other treasure in other countries or places,,,

tintin treasure

 

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[Crow]

If only it was easy as that. Its not the case all pre Colombian artifacts are considered Peruvian patrimony. Your a gringo and ya turn up to any Peruvian official ya going to see the inside of jail and have a close encounter with an electric cattle prod. if ya tell them its in a cave that is the last ya ever hear of it..They never had much interest in colonial items however providing they had been found of land with owners consent. But soon ya find anything of value such gold etc... they will scream Peruvian Patrimony. Sadly that is the same for most South American countries.

Besides there are powerful families with powerful connects that control the flow of antiquities....Especially Peru and Bolivia.

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

If only it was easy as that. Its not the case all pre Colombian artifacts are considered Peruvian patrimony. Your a gringo and ya turn up to any Peruvian official ya going to see the inside of jail and have a close encounter with an electric cattle prod. if ya tell them its in a cave that is the last ya ever hear of it..They never had much interest in colonial items however providing they had been found of land with owners consent. But soon ya find anything of value such gold etc... they will scream Peruvian Patrimony. Sadly that is the same for most South American countries.

Besides there are powerful families with powerful connects that control the flow of antiquities....Especially Peru and Bolivia.

Crow

it seems quite complicated ....

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Sadly nothing is as easy as it seems....

Don't get me wrong if you want to go down there to explore and research sure no problem but start messing with their antiquities, buying and exporting or selling.....is another matter.

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

it seems quite complicated ....

tintin treasure

I also read somewhere that some treasure finds if found could trigger even a war between claiming countries ...cases in point are the vast hoard of Ghenghis Khan that he robbed from two continents and the huge hoard of Ahmad Shah that he robbed from the Mughals of India and the robbed portuguese treasure of Flor de la Mar ship wreck of the coast of Sumatra.

tintin treasure

 

[tintin_treasure]

Sadly nothing is as easy as it seems....

Don't get me wrong if you want to go down there to explore and research sure no problem but start messing with their antiquities, buying and exporting or selling.....is another matter.

Crow

Thanks Crow. I understand.Of-course antiquity rules of a country should be respected.But also the dangerous efforts of the treasure finder should be rewarded.If all parties respect the rules there would not be problems...

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

TT unfortunately the days of 50/50 deal are long gone. They do no make deals for antiquities . One: the country could never afford to buy every item dug up. Two: One particular family, thier family has been nick named the president factory buys looted artifacts and shows them in thier private gold museum. I and hardluck have had the luxury of visiting the underground vault Bunker we was not allowed to take Photographed at the time. Which is guarded by tanks. Those looters from barricados (the poor slums ) who grave rob artifacts to put food on the table have to sell to that family. If they get caught selling to gringos they get their hand on a chopping block and finger cut off with a hammer and chisel....Not uncommon to see one or two or even three fingers missing on those who engage in such things on thier hand my friends. And makes things even more complicated there vast network of forgers than manufacture artifacts for tourist trade and nearly as good as the real thing even to the point of being burn't in llama dung to give false carbon dating readings.

Such is realities my friend.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Would ya like to see inside the vault?

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Tain't that simple. For one the authorities always assume that you have done just thet, which in any cases is illegal and go from there.

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT unfortunately the days of 50/50 deal are long gone. They do no make deals for antiquities . One: the country could never afford to buy every item dug up. Two: One particular family, thier family has been nick named the president factory buys looted artifacts and shows them in thier private gold museum. I and hardluck have had the luxury of visiting the underground vault Bunker we was not allowed to take Photographed at the time. Which is guarded by tanks. Those looters from barricados (the poor slums ) who grave rob artifacts to put food on the table have to sell to that family. If they get caught selling to gringos they get their hand on a chopping block and finger cut off with a hammer and chisel....Not uncommon to see one or two or even three fingers missing on those who engage in such things on thier hand my friends. And makes things even more complicated there vast network of forgers than manufacture artifacts for tourist trade and nearly as good as the real thing even to the point of being burn't in llama dung to give false carbon dating readings.

Such is realities my friend.

Crow

Thanks Crow.If crooks reside in the system in such a way as you describe it and do not reward your efforts,then a reasonable move for a treasure hunter is to locate a treasure film and photograph it carefully note the exact GPS or any important loc info and leave that country. Then from the comfort of your home inform the foreign ministry of the country in question officially that you have located a hoard(show pics and films if possible with you in the film) and that if they are interested they can buy the information from you ...then u sell it to that nation with a decent price under the eyes of an international law.If they refuse to buy it another established treasure hunting company would be willing to buy it from you.Hence in this scenario the treasure hunter would not handle any treasure in his hands at all and put himself in danger but instead would navigate in the more safer territory of ''information selling'' under the supervision of international law.

But for some reasonable law abiding nations like Germany you can deal with the treasure itself as there is the 50/50 rule intact.

tintin treasure

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Crow, that is why the true entrance to Tayopa has never been posted, nor will it be. No one has the slightest idea where to start looking in the complex, so it would be very very expensive to try to bypass me.
For those that might think of tailings, no, there are none visible today, It was a 'stoping' operation, almost all work was done in shipping ore, hi grade.. just a huge pocket of silver ore, some native.

 

[doc-d]

Money, treasure corrupts……..and it does not need be large amounts for people to loose their lives….
As Senor Crow mentions, as an outsider, you are way more at risk……….shutting up is best it would seem………..and as our wise black feathered one has told us, have things thought out, have something planned in the event you find treasure…….
Many options exist…….given the difficulties of antiquities…….gold can be melted and although this would likely reduce the value, you would avoid some problems also……
Keep in mind many countries restrict how much money and or precious metals you can enter or exit with………Ecuador and the USSA being among them.

 

[pmuggs]

Maybe I'm an adrenaline junkie, but all this talk and forbearing just excites me even more. Of course, I'd keep certain to maintain a clear, level head when making a decision upon pursuing a life as a treasure hunter. Is it not entirely possible to find the treasure and sell it under the table? Do museums inquire as to where you found the item, or do they just keep quiet and give you a drastically marked down price? Maybe have a group of people willing to move the treasure to a secure holding location, where you could export to another country? As TT has proven, there's more than just one person (myself) interested in partaking in such expeditions; surely you could find a group of like minded people. Alaskan had that same idea two years ago, and the thread is still active.

PS This is not to say that I am disregarding your advice; by asking further questions I am inclined to believe that it shows my respect for you, as I cannot claim to refute your wisdom. I only hope that by testing your claims against my own assumptions that I will come to understand the entire reality of the situation that much better, lest I go through with my ambitions.

Best regards as always, and I'm grateful for the amount of time you folks invest in educating people such as myself.

 

[Crow]

Thanks Crow.If crooks reside in the system in such a way as you describe it and do not reward your efforts,then a reasonable move for a treasure hunter is to locate a treasure film and photograph it carefully note the exact GPS or any important loc info and leave that country. Then from the comfort of your home inform the foreign ministry of the country in question officially that you have located a hoard(show pics and films if possible with you in the film) and that if they are interested they can buy the information from you ...then u sell it to that nation with a decent price under the eyes of an international law.If they refuse to buy it another established treasure hunting company would be willing to buy it from you.Hence in this scenario the treasure hunter would not handle any treasure in his hands at all and put himself in danger but instead would navigate in the more safer territory of ''information selling'' under the supervision of international law.

But for some reasonable law abiding nations like Germany you can deal with the treasure itself as there is the 50/50 rule intact.

tintin treasure

Hello TT I an not confident things are as clear cut as just 50/50 in any country this below is with paintings Germany. It is the same with artifacts from any culture especially ancient cultures. The law of treasure trove states an owner all artifacts belong the countries cultural patrimony.

Legal Issues Complicate Munich Art Treasure Trove Find - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The encyclopedia Britannica definition is a very poor broad definition that does not go down into the legal complexities of treasure trove,

in law, coin, bullion, gold, or silver articles, found hidden in the earth, for which no owner can be discovered.

In most of feudal Europe, where the prince was looked on as the ultimate owner of all lands, his claim to the treasure trove became, according to the founder of international law, Hugo grotius a common and universal right. In England and similarly in Scotland, the right to treasure trove is in the crown, which may grant it as a franchise. Such articles are presumed to have once had an owner; and, in his absence, they belong not to the finder but to the crown. Their concealment is an indictable offense in England but not a crime in Scotland unless accompanied by intent to appropriate. In England the finder—and indeed anyone who acquires knowledge—should report the matter to the coroner, who must hold an inquest to find whether the discovery be treasure trove or not. In the United States the common law following the English, would seem to give treasure trove to the public treasury, but in practice the finder has been allowed to keep it. In Louisiana half goes to the finder and half to the owner of the land. Modern French, German, Italian, and Spanish law is the same.

remember the term "for which no owner can be discovered?" It is a very open term my friend ancient artifacts are in most cases will be claimed as cultural assets belonging to the state. Currencey and Bullion is different as they as currency cannot be claimed as a cultural asset in law is common currency in which they have to prove ownership of such items.


If I was that way inclined and by no means an endorsement or confirmation of my own activities or anyone else. Treasure hunters are lousy with money in general they usually have none to spend on information especially from another treasure hunter and especially if ya have no contract or ownership claims on such treasure.. Information is the key but ya have prove your value. Other wise ya will get no deal. Brokering a deal is a whole new ball game. For starters ya will never get a deal without being a corporate identity.... Banking and transactions always are brokered through an offshore account owned by the corporate identity ya work under. That company will be owned in-turn will be owned by another offshore company registered in another tax free zone.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Crow, that is why the true entrance to Tayopa has never been posted, nor will it be. No one has the slightest idea where to start looking in the complex, so it would be very very expensive to try to bypass me.
For those that might think of tailings, no, there are none visible today, It was a 'stoping' operation, almost all work was done in shipping ore, hi grade.. just a huge pocket of silver ore, some native.

Thats why I would be pushing the mine and not the treasure side of the story.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is inside the underground vault. unbeknown to many The artifacts are on permanent loan to Peruvian government but are actually owned by a private family. Any tourist like so interested can visit the Gold museum. When in Lima it is a must place to visit...









Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Here is inside the underground vault. unbeknown to many The artifacts are on permanent loan to Peruvian government but are actually owned by a private family. Any tourist like so interested can visit the Gold museum. When in Lima it is a must place to visit...



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Crow

thanks Crow for your insights and the shining pics of the Vault.

tintin treasure

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Crow ---you posted ---> Thats why I would be pushing the mine and not the treasure side of the story.


I have and am. but i have a very limited access to investors or finances, the larger co just brush me off, especially the lead geologists, = They don't now what I know, the 'Why' Tayopa was formed It lies in the center of a barren Basalt zone but ===

The deposit was another thing, a group in Hermosillo denounced / filed on a huge chunk of land to the sourh of the complex,They had seen a pair of Macaws flying into a tunnel system, then asked me if I would like to come in as an equal partner in return for my information = not Tayopa, that's mine alone = = and running the operation , they would put up the expenses Unfortunately since I couldn't be up there, they tended to second guess me so I finally called a halt to operations = we may start up after the rains.

They found nothing in those tunnels People just don't make tunnels for fun. I'd like to work on them, maybe later. There is so much that I wish I could post, but I dare not. Maybe someday by coded am .

The tunnel sysren wsa in the 'cerro del Padre', the area where the Jesuit Fathe fell to his death in the lar=te 1890.s

 

[doc-d]

Senor Don Jose, I would love to hear about Tayopa, but of course understand that some things are better said in private…….God alone knows the future and if chance finds me some day south of the border (USSA), perhaps over a Señor Cuervo fortified cup of coffee, or two, or three………
It would be enjoyable spending time searching the caves…..

And our Señor Cuervo, I missed the gold museum last time I was in Lima……..but this does provide another reason for a visit there in the near future…….

 

[J.A.A.]

Señor Crow-
You said the pictures are from the underground vault and that we can visit the gold museum in Peru: are they one in the same or two separate entities? And, can you say which family owns the vault or is that privileged information? I completely understand if you can't speak about certain facts.

Thank you in advance, and thank you for your constant ability to amaze in the info you write here on TNet. Don Jose is NOT the only individual who needs to be in the process of writing a book! Either way, I hope you've kept excellent records of each & every legend, myth, or fact you've come across in your travels. Not so much for the financial gain but, more over, the historical significance of each tale: THIS is the reason for a book!!

All the best-
J.A.