AGE OF THE EARTH...

[Shortstack]

Mr. O,
There was a program on T.V. last night concerning that very question. (did our water come from comets?)
Well, if comets brought our water, that would have called for a heck of a LOT of comets, in my opinion. Supposedly, the fact that we still have comets is one indication of a young universe. Comets are icy lumps and have very short life spans due to the fact that they are constantly "gassing off". If I wanted to bring in that "r" word, I'd point out that the first thing brought into existence in the universe, was water and water WILL be found throughout the universe. But, I don't want to turn this into an "r" thread. The Bangers tell us that the big bang produced hydrogen and helium, but don't explain how those two elements were cracked (?) and formed oxygen. As a matter of fact, what IS oxygen? For one thing, it is a very destructive element, but, where did it come from? How does one get oxygen from hydrogen and helium? How does one get any of the OTHER elements from hydrogen and helium?
In a previous post, lamar says that carbon was formed in a carbon star. HUH?? I have NEVER heard of a carbon star.........but I'm not an expert (thank goodness). That begs the questions, "are there oxygen stars? are there iron stars? are there potassium stars? are there....................well, you get the idea. All of these wonderful answers that are written up without PROOF is what's so aggravating. THEORIES written and spoken as if they were proven science. Mr. O, that is what I am arguing against and am insisting other theories be given equal credence.

 

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[lamar]

WOW. Isn't that amazing? That farmer was discovered just in time to refute a piece of archaeological information. Sort of convenient wasn't it? Welllllll. I don't have anything further on that point without further research. I do have to wonder if the investigators are the same ones who discovered the faking of the Piltdown Man, etc. If so, they are certainly fair in their debunking, aren't they? If they aren't, that's a wonderful "one-up-manship" and the folks on "my side" have slacked off. I wonder about the interview with an archaeologist who spoke about the "desert varnish" that had filled in the sketchlines during the decades / centuries of the pottery's existence. I also wonder if that native guy was just copying legitimate pots with dinos; trying to capitalize on the situation. After all, counterfitters copy real money, paintings, etc. Yep, more research is needed on this matter, by me.

For the record, a large cloud of gas would not condense into itself because because there is no intergal gravity. Mass spread out does not have the same concentration as a compact mass. A large, randomly moving cloud of gas would not spontaneously begin to condense without anoutside force acting upon the situation. There was no outside force there. The particles of energy were travelling outward in straight trajectories, not bumbling around in cloudy conglomerates. Remember, the Bang would have sent it's ...........stuff outward in a 3 dimensional, 360 degrees worth of direction. I keep bringing this up because the Bangers' textbook simply does not explain how or where that spontaneous gravity well came from. To simply say, "it happened" is pure theory........NOT proven fact. Therefore, Intelligent Design deserves equal consideration; to be evaluated by each person in his or her own time; using his or her own reasoning.
Hey, I didn't believe a green sunset was possible, until I SAW one. (actually, several)

Dear Shortstack;
Concerning gravitational force:
For the record, a large cloud of gas would not condense into itself because because there is no intergal gravity. Mass spread out does not have the same concentration as a compact mass
Certainly a gas cloud would condense down into itself, my friend. The reason why it does so it because the gas cloud has a mass (or density). Gas compresses quite nicely and because of this native feature of all gaseous states, gas will compress down into a VERY dense mass.

For example, my vehicle is powered by CNG, which is COMPRESSED Natural Gas, and believe me, when it's compressed, it's REALLY compressed. 3000 PSI worth of compressed, in fact. The cylinders total 40 cubic meters, yet because of internal expansion, only 32 cubic meters can be compressed, or 80% of the cylinder's total volume. The other 20% is existing atomospheric air, without cannout be evacuated from the cylinders without either an evacuation pump of some type or a bleed valve, both of which are harmful to the environment, therefore the cylinders are only filled to 80% of their capacity.

Now, 32 CUBIC meters of natural gas is a LOT of area, yet it can be compressed down to the point where in can be stored in a small vehicle and used as a fuel. Now, like elements tend to congregate. This is also true, and if it were not true, then there would be no pockets of natural gas, oil or any other minerals. The Earth would be one huge unseparated melting pot, yet all minerals tend to drop out of suspension at differents rates and in different conditions. This is what forms gold nuggets, silver nuggets, copper veins, etc.

hydrogen and helium are atomically very similiar in structure, therefore they tend to band together, as it plainly evident every time the Sun rises, my friend. Now, back to CNG for just a moment. That 32 cubic meters of CNG has a mass and that mass is exactly the same when the gas completely fills a 32 cubic meter container or one which is 4 cubic meters. The mass does NOT change one tiny bit.

If you take an object, such as our Sun, and compress it down to the size of a baseball, what happens? A black hole is formed, naturally. The weight of the Sun has not changed, not even one iota, only it's SIZE has been altered, but it's gravitational mass remains exactly the same as before.

Gravitational force does not depend on an outside force at all. Gravity is a product of mass. The denser the mass, the higher the gravitational force becomes. Let's take a hypothetical situation for a second. When our Sun was still a pretty nebula cloud, it weighed exactly 1 billion pounds, not one ounce more nor less. As the cloud condensed into an ever smaller package, the weight stayed at 1 billion pounds. In all reality, the weight actually increases, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume the weight never changes.

Every single atom in that cloud of gas has a weight, in fact it's known as the atomic weight. A gas cloud with a total weight of 1 billion pounds will not stay a cloud forever, because the resulting gravity, which is a result of the cloud's mass, won't allow this to happen. Instead, the cloud gradually becomes smaller and smaller.

Of course, this does not occur overnight, my friend. It starts very slowly and the effect starts to build as the mass becomes denser, until finally, the cloud of hydrogen and helium become so tightly compacted that nuclear fusion occurs as a result. We know this happens because scientists have proven empherically that nuclear fusion is a workable concept.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Shortstack]

Mr. lamar,
I will accept your explanation of the Nazca pottery, for now. That makes me wonder, did the Indians in the southwestern part of the U.S. who drew dinosaurs into their pictographs get their children's coloring books from Peru? Did the Europeans' ancestors who drew dino pictures in their caves get THEIR ideas from those coloring books? I don't know. I'm just asking. Somewhere, somehow, those early artists HAD to have seen their "subjects" in person to have drawn them; to even gotten the IDEA of their construction and designs. But, according to the Bangers and Old Earthers, there was about 77 million years between the dinos and their "biographers".

 

[lamar]

Mr. O,
There was a program on T.V. last night concerning that very question. (did our water come from comets?)
Well, if comets brought our water, that would have called for a heck of a LOT of comets, in my opinion. Supposedly, the fact that we still have comets is one indication of a young universe. Comets are icy lumps and have very short life spans due to the fact that they are constantly "gassing off". If I wanted to bring in that "r" word, I'd point out that the first thing brought into existence in the universe, was water and water WILL be found throughout the universe. But, I don't want to turn this into an "r" thread. The Bangers tell us that the big bang produced hydrogen and helium, but don't explain how those two elements were cracked (?) and formed oxygen. As a matter of fact, what IS oxygen? For one thing, it is a very destructive element, but, where did it come from? How does one get oxygen from hydrogen and helium? How does one get any of the OTHER elements from hydrogen and helium?
In a previous post, lamar says that carbon was formed in a carbon star. HUH?? I have NEVER heard of a carbon star.........but I'm not an expert (thank goodness). That begs the questions, "are there oxygen stars? are there iron stars? are there potassium stars? are there....................well, you get the idea. All of these wonderful answers that are written up without PROOF is what's so aggravating. THEORIES written and spoken as if they were proven science. Mr. O, that is what I am arguing against and am insisting other theories be given equal credence.

Dear Shortstack;
Carbon stars are actually quite common and although my own telescope is not nearly powerful to view one in any detail, they do exist in the heavens. In short, carbon stars are red in appearance and they are very similiar to red giants and some red dwarves. A typical carbon star has more carbon in it's atomosphere than oxygen and because of this, carbon and oxygen combine in the upper atomospheres of carbon stars, producing carbon monoxide, which gives the surface of a carbon star a sooty appearance, which is why they look red when viewed from a distance.

Other stars which have more oxygen than carbon are called oxygen stars, such as our Sun.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Shortstack]

Mr. lamar,
The compressed gas in your automobile has NOTHING to do with the primordial gas clouds spontaneously compressing. Your gas was mechanically compressed, those gas clouds supposedly formed after the Bang, had no mechanical compressors............and that's my whole point. There was NOTHING to cause that gas cloud to compress on its own. The gas cloud's mass would have been spread out over millions and millions of miles, therefore it's mass would have been spread out, TOO. Just like the difference between you walking through three feet deep snow in only street boots or walking using snow shoes. Your mass stays the same. In your street boots, you sink into the snow. With snow shoes, you walk without sinking. The mass of your theoretical gas cloud would have been spread over such a large area that it's effect on the fabric of gravity would have been small and NOT concentrated in small areas to form clumps.

 

[Oroblanco]

They arrested a farmer for making the Nazca pottery depicting dinos? What did they charge him with, creating art? If they are not imitations of ancient pottery (as we could argue from the presence of dinosaurs) I don't see what they could charge him with. I do some wood carving as a hobby, if I were in Peru could they charge me with some criminal act, if my carvings included dinosaurs and resembled some ancient versions that had no dinosaurs?

What about the Ica stones? (Also in Peru, depicting dinosaurs etc) Are they a part of this same deal with the pottery? I don't mean to derail the discussion just that I find that puzzling that a farmer making pottery with dinosaurs depicted on it would have been arrested for it. I do not understand the reasoning there. What sort of antiquities law was he breaking?
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Mr. O,
There was a program on T.V. last night concerning that very question. (did our water come from comets?)
Well, if comets brought our water, that would have called for a heck of a LOT of comets, in my opinion. Supposedly, the fact that we still have comets is one indication of a young universe. Comets are icy lumps and have very short life spans due to the fact that they are constantly "gassing off". If I wanted to bring in that "r" word, I'd point out that the first thing brought into existence in the universe, was water and water WILL be found throughout the universe. But, I don't want to turn this into an "r" thread. The Bangers tell us that the big bang produced hydrogen and helium, but don't explain how those two elements were cracked (?) and formed oxygen. As a matter of fact, what IS oxygen? For one thing, it is a very destructive element, but, where did it come from? How does one get oxygen from hydrogen and helium? How does one get any of the OTHER elements from hydrogen and helium?
In a previous post, lamar says that carbon was formed in a carbon star. HUH?? I have NEVER heard of a carbon star.........but I'm not an expert (thank goodness). That begs the questions, "are there oxygen stars? are there iron stars? are there potassium stars? are there....................well, you get the idea. All of these wonderful answers that are written up without PROOF is what's so aggravating. THEORIES written and spoken as if they were proven science. Mr. O, that is what I am arguing against and am insisting other theories be given equal credence.

Dear shortstack;
Oxygen comes from plantlife my friend. In the early days of our planet, our atomosphere was very thin and oxygen poor. Plants soon flourished and they consumed the carbon dioxides and monoxides in the air and in return gave off oxygen. Once the atomosphere reached a point where animal life could exist, animals evolved and began breathing oxygen and expelling carbon dioxide. This is known as a symbiant circle. I love using the term *symbiant circle*. It makes me sounds so *Jedi* whenever I do.

Water was also formed at the *local* or planetary level, my friend. Water is nothing more complex than a molecule which consists of one oxygen atom bonded to two hydrogen atoms. Stir gently and VOILA! Water!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Shortstack]

RED huh? What color is an iron star and a potassium star? That's interesting. Just think, the designer who put all of this together thought of everything, didn't he?

Mr. O, Those stones were the ones with the desert varnish and NOT the pottery. To be honest, I'd forgotten those stones. THOSE were the objects referred to as "burial" things......not pottery. My screwup. Sorry.

 

[lamar]

They arrested a farmer for making the Nazca pottery depicting dinos? What did they charge him with, creating art? If they are not imitations of ancient pottery (as we could argue from the presence of dinosaurs) I don't see what they could charge him with. I do some wood carving as a hobby, if I were in Peru could they charge me with some criminal act, if my carvings included dinosaurs and resembled some ancient versions that had no dinosaurs?

What about the Ica stones? (Also in Peru, depicting dinosaurs etc) Are they a part of this same deal with the pottery? I don't mean to derail the discussion just that I find that puzzling that a farmer making pottery with dinosaurs depicted on it would have been arrested for it. I do not understand the reasoning there. What sort of antiquities law was he breaking?
Oroblanco

Dear Oroblanco;
Do they need an actual reason to arrest someone in Peru? Nope, not as far as I am aware. They tend to arrest people first and THEN establish whether or not the person is guilty. You should know this, my friend. Also, it's against the law to sell *artifacts*, even forged ones, in Peru because, and this actually makes some sense, because it will spur the looting of REAL artifacts, which is a very big problem in South America.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Shortstack]

PULLLLease, Mr. lamar. I am well aware of the HOH situation. MY question concerns WHERE the element, oxygen came from originally. That BBang created only hydrogen and helium. According to the Banger scientists.

And on that evolving life thing, you so lightly skipped by, exactly HOW did the spark of life start from rocks and rain? But, lets not go there just yet. We still can't agree on how the universe was created.

And I'm waiting to hear how you think those Peruvian coloring books got up to our southwest Indians and to the European cave folks.

 

[lamar]

RED huh? What color is an iron star and a potassium star? That's interesting. Just think, the designer who put all of this together thought of everything, didn't he?

Mr. O, Those stones were the ones with the desert varnish and NOT the pottery. To be honest, I'd forgotten those stones. THOSE were the objects referred to as "burial" things......not pottery. My screwup. Sorry.

Dear Shortstack;
Iron stars are red. In fact, the cores of red giants are comprised of iron, my friend. Iron comes from stellar nucleosynthesis and it's formed in the triple Alpha process. Here is the formula of the triple Aplha process and you may check this for yourself to verify the veracity of it:
42He + 42He → 84Be (−92 keV)
84Be + 42He → 126C + e+ + e− [3] (+7.367 MeV)
The net sum should be:
7.275 MeV
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

Well I do know they are a bit fast to be arresting people in Peru and are not so quick to bring charges, but then they had a serious problem with the Shining Path Maoist guerillas for years - murdering people, blowing up bridges etc. So in a way it is understandable, but now I wonder were those "artifacts" being sold AS artifacts, or was the farmer simply selling his handiwork? Hard to make a judgement call from here based on what we can learn of course, and it is not a vital factor to our discussion, just curious about the incident.

BTW that "looting" you view so dimly, is also justifiable in a way for some really POOR people it is a source of money there. After all, it is their own ancestors they are taking those artifacts from, not stealing them from a museum. I know that we disagree on this aspect and I can never change your mind so I won't push the matter.
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

PULLLLease, Mr. lamar. I am well aware of the HOH situation. MY question concerns WHERE the element, oxygen came from originally. That BBang created only hydrogen and helium. According to the Banger scientists.

And on that evolving life thing, you so lightly skipped by, exactly HOW did the spark of life start from rocks and rain? But, lets not go there just yet. We still can't agree on how the universe was created.

And I'm waiting to hear how you think those Peruvian coloring books got up to our southwest Indians and to the European cave folks.

Dear Shortstack;
Oxygen comes from Helium my friend. Oxygen-16 synthesised towards the tail end of the helium fusion process in stars and Oxygen-17 comes from the CNO process whereby hydrgen and and helium are burned, making it one of the most common elements in the hydrogen furnace zones of most Oxygen class stars.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Well I do know they are a bit fast to be arresting people in Peru and are not so quick to bring charges, but then they had a serious problem with the Shining Path Maoist guerillas for years - murdering people, blowing up bridges etc. So in a way it is understandable, but now I wonder were those "artifacts" being sold AS artifacts, or was the farmer simply selling his handiwork? Hard to make a judgement call from here based on what we can learn of course, and it is not a vital factor to our discussion, just curious about the incident.

BTW that "looting" you view so dimly, is also justifiable in a way for some really POOR people it is a source of money there. After all, it is their own ancestors they are taking those artifacts from, not stealing them from a museum. I know that we disagree on this aspect and I can never change your mind so I won't push the matter.
Oroblanco

Dear Oroblanco;
In fact I DO understand the plight of the poverty-stricken very well, my friend, perhaps even better than yourself. I cannot agree to selling ancestoral artifacts though and this is a commonly held opinion with the vast majority of South Americans.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[GL]

Stop persecuting my mathematics, geology, history, science, astrophysics, astronomy, cosmology and plainly obvious observations of the world around me. I am outraged and offended OMG.
LMAO at this whole premise. I think shortstack is yanking our legs.

 

[Oroblanco]

These Ica stones are perplexing; Lamar informs us that the farmer who made them was arrested, and on doing a little checking I found that the farmer, Basilio Uschuya, admitted to Erich von Daniken that he had made them in an interview in 1973. Case closed right? Well later on, Uschuya recanted his confession during an interview with a German journalist. Uschuya later on made a stone for a BBC documentary. He said it was easier to make the stones than to farm. He was arrested as Lamar has mentioned for selling artifacts which is illegal there, yet even though Uschuya claims he did not make all the stones, he was not punished by the government. So, was he simply making curiosities to sell to collectors and tourists, or did he sell some that were genuine and thus break the law? If Uschuya had not made the stones, he sure had incentive to claim that he did for he would have gone to jail for selling antiquities. It is a muddy case for sure and this reflects on the problems of poverty and antiquities in most of Latin America; a family poor and starving, knowing where there are valuable relics to be had for the digging, can we blame them for it if they do? Then if caught, they have strong reasons to claim that they faked them rather than admit to "looting" and going to prison.

All of which sure makes it tough for us whom are buying illegal looted artifacts on the wholesale market - we can never be sure whether they are genuine or modern fakes! <I am kidding, Big Brother monitoring our discussion. > That reminds me - anyone in the market for some "genuine" ancient Inca "artifacts"? (harhar )
Oroblanco

 

[Shortstack]

PULLLLease, Mr. lamar. I am well aware of the HOH situation. MY question concerns WHERE the element, oxygen came from originally. That BBang created only hydrogen and helium. According to the Banger scientists.

And on that evolving life thing, you so lightly skipped by, exactly HOW did the spark of life start from rocks and rain? But, lets not go there just yet. We still can't agree on how the universe was created.

And I'm waiting to hear how you think those Peruvian coloring books got up to our southwest Indians and to the European cave folks.

Dear Shortstack;
Oxygen comes from Helium my friend. Oxygen-16 synthesised towards the tail end of the helium fusion process in stars and Oxygen-17 comes from the CNO process whereby hydrgen and and helium are burned, making it one of the most common elements in the hydrogen furnace zones of most Oxygen class stars.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Mr. lamar, I apologize for taking so long to reply. I was busy sensitizing something from a pot of coffee.
Now, you brought back the fusion processes within a star as the manufacturing element of.....well, the elements. That brings us full circle back to the original discussion of how stars were formed. Yes, stars are amazing objects that were created when the universe was manufactured. Again, those pesky gas clouds just did not condense on their own. In a Big Bang, those energy particles would have been expelled out in straight trajectories with diverging paths; NOT converging. Thus, none would have been placed into a position to collide collaterally with another particle to induce "spins" in those particles.

Seems like I've mentioned these points before, but they were lightly glossed over. Ignoring them will not change their significance.

 

[Shortstack]

Mr. O,
Do you have any of those genuwine Nazca coloring books? I'd like an original one to compare to those pictographs. Between us, we might make a break through discovery of archaeological significance. LOL

 

[Oroblanco]

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What about the Acamba figurines, found in Mexico? Some of these also depict dinosaurs,

Are these proven to be modern fakes/frauds? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Shortstack]

Mr. O,
I believe you have a fine example of an amazingly detailed model of a..........ahhhhh...........rat? No. a dog? No. A mutated cat. That's it. A mutated cat in the sabretooth family.
After all, the Bangers claim that no human was around at the time of the dinosaurs.