A Who is it and a What is it relic - SOLVED

[Don in SJ]

I found this relic at a homestead that was occupied O/A Civil War era till sometime into the 1900's. It was without a doubt an African American homestead according to local history.

The lettering is GALLIE IIIV SHUC, not 100% sure, since the A in GALLIE might be another letter, but that would not make sense.

Anyway, don't know what the item is or used for nor the identity of the man.

Don

SOLVED FOR WHAT IS IT: CLOTHING FASTENER, PAT'D 1881 http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,214528.0.html Buckleboys post down a bit has the link for the patent.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic (WHAT IS SOLVED?)

The design and quality of construction rules out the early periods mentioned. it is some type of clasp made in the 1900 up time period. Just the inside mechanics them selves say modern.
DG

No doubt about being more modern,(as I stated 1850-1916 of occupational period) the archies did not say old, only the bale collector who is a well known colonial coin collector but I think he was referring to the design more than the age of the seal, he sort of talks in riddles so hard to figure him out some time.

As for being a clasp, again, no photos justifying either clasp or bale seal, but with archaeologists and a bale seal collector saying bale seal, I have not seen any clasp collectors chime in.

Don

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[trikikiwi]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

This sure is a fascinating what'sit?

Some more thoughts for food from my observations and research.

The device is hinged at the bottom when viewing the face so, more than likely it's proper use was in a 'lay flat' position. Or the hinge was strong and stiff enough to perform it's duty without falling open.

I calculate there must be a gap of about one eighth inch (3mm) between top and base, held up by the centre peg. A pic of edge-on might be helpful.

Something sits on that centre pin - leather/fabric strap/belt.

The offset rivet is likely made to stop the disc turning around in relation to the rear clip, which indicates that orientation of the disc is important.

The clip looks military.

Could Gallie relate to Gallipoli ?

Or is this connected to tobacco somehow?

Mike 8)

 

[DCMatt]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I have NO proof, but my feeling is that this piece is Victorian revival. Possibly the end of a book clasp/strap. No clue what the words might mean...

DCMatt

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Trikikiwi said:

The device is hinged at the bottom when viewing the face so, more than likely it's proper use was in a 'lay flat' position. Or the hinge was strong and stiff enough to perform it's duty without falling open.

I agree the proper use was most likely for it to be in the lay flat position, there just does not seem to be any locking capability on the hinged part to "lock" anything together when closed, but I might be wrong on that assumption.

I calculate there must be a gap of about one eighth inch (3mm) between top and base, held up by the centre peg. A pic of edge-on might be helpful.

There is approximately a 2-3mm even gap when closed, so you are correct.

Something sits on that centre pin - leather/fabric strap/belt.

Unknown

The offset rivet is likely made to stop the disc turning around in relation to the rear clip, which indicates that orientation of the disc is important.

I agree the rivet is to prevent the rotation, whether orientation is important would be proven once it is solved what the item is.

OK, I have not gotten any further on what the item might have been used for but I do now think what the one individual on the Ancient Coin Forum, that Peachy posted on might be somewhat correct. He said the lettering and bust might be roughly portraying the Roman Emperor for the 2-300 AD era Gallienus. I looked at several of his coins and since we do agree this is rather modern when compared to Roman coins, that the lettering could be a rough interpetation of the lettering on this coin that I found on the web.
It is just too darn close to dismiss that possiblity. (GALLIENVSAVG)

So assuming it is representing the Roman Emperor, what then would the object have been made for?? Still a What is it?
Clasp
Sundial
Bale Seal

I do want to add, the ears that are on the back side are not very strong, rather they have some fleixiblity and the veritcal tab there I believe was the third part to hold this relic to whatever it was attached to.

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Well, looks like this will be the second relic that I will send photos to Mark Parker from Western and Eastern magazine. Hopefully he will come up with the What is it with an example, I am fairly certain the who is it, is a modern rendition of that Roman Emperor, but shall see what Mark has to say...........

Don

 

[Cruisin]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I'm still stuck on thinking it has something to do with a sundial. The middle gizmo could be a gnomon and the smaller gizmachi could be a noon-mark. Maybe it attached to a compass? Early noon-mark sundials had no number marks.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Sundial? No.

 

[Michelle]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

i keep thinking of some kind of hardware piece that once fit inside of either wood or heavy leather material that had a strap with hole that fit over the pointed piece and the face closed down to cover it... as far as who it is and what it represents....no clue yet.....

Then again i am only guessing!

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I am still wondering if the back piece comes off and will fit inside. I think it will and that will be good to know.

Daryl

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

i keep thinking of some kind of hardware piece that once fit inside of either wood or heavy leather material that had a strap with hole that fit over the pointed piece and the face closed down to cover it... as far as who it is and what it represents....no clue yet.....

Then again i am only guessing!

Michelle
The tabs on the back are not very strong, even have a tad of flexibilty to them, so I doubt attached to wood in any way or heavy leather, I am clueless on the what it is. But, the Who is, I am fairly certain it is a modern rendition of the Gallienus, Roman Emperor coin that I attached a photo of one of the many varieties(few replies above this one) and the lettering does match the lettering on my unknown relic.

What looked like the Roman numeral III V evidently is a crude way of depicting the letters NV and SHUG is really SAVG thus it is saying GALLIENVSAVG, the same as the lettering on the Roman coins for the emperor. I want to add V and U were interchangeably used for the same letter years ago.

I am still wondering if the back piece comes off and will fit inside. I think it will and that will be good to know.

Daryl

Daryl
not quite sure what you are asking, nothing comes apart from what I can tell.

Don

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Hi Don,

The piece on the back that is fitting over the posts looks like it would come off when the things gets cleaned. It looks to me that it would also fit inside. If that is the case, then the way the thing would work is that one of the ends would be attached to the back and then the other end with the same type fastener would fit under the hinged part.

Daryl

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Daryl, that piece is permanent, the purpose of it is for the tab at the top to act as a spring type tension to hold the "clasp" in the open postion and prevent it from opening more than 90*.

Don

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Okey, dokey. It's just strange that it "fits" over the same post as inside and has the little post there to keep it from moving side to side like the one inside would.

Daryl

 

[jessecarlk]

Hi Don, I had sent you a message about this piece. Looking forward to a response. Thank you. Jesse.