A Who is it and a What is it relic - SOLVED

[Don in SJ]

I found this relic at a homestead that was occupied O/A Civil War era till sometime into the 1900's. It was without a doubt an African American homestead according to local history.

The lettering is GALLIE IIIV SHUC, not 100% sure, since the A in GALLIE might be another letter, but that would not make sense.

Anyway, don't know what the item is or used for nor the identity of the man.

Don

SOLVED FOR WHAT IS IT: CLOTHING FASTENER, PAT'D 1881 http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,214528.0.html Buckleboys post down a bit has the link for the patent.

 

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[Diggerbarns]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

To me it looks like some sort of clasp.The back side with the wings probobly had leather or the like sandwiched between,then the strap came around and went over the prong.Then you closed the cover.Sure is a good find!

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

No idea on who...

but the piece sure seems familiar... weird.

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Does it close all the way or does it hit the pin?

It looks like the piece on the back will come off and an identical one would fit under the hinged part?

If so, I think figuring out what and how something was attached to that piece will add a lot of information.

I think some kind of cloth or ribbon was attached to the part on the back and it was looped around something and an identical end went over the pins under the hinged piece and it was closed to secure it. The whole thing was held in some type of holder (hence the "ears") so the piece attached to the back would not slip off.

The person and writing may be purely decorative. The Roman numeral looking letters are not written correctly if I remember correctly. The face looks too modern to go with the hair and ribbon.

Just some thoughts.

Daryl

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Correct on the roman numerals Bio P... those are NOT representitive of any number...

 

[Michelle]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Gallie S Huc.........

 

[MEinWV]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

To me it looks like some sort of clasp.The back side with the wings probobly had leather or the like sandwiched between,then the strap came around and went over the prong.Then you closed the cover.Sure is a good find!

After seeing it , I think that you are right about this one, Digger. It seems to be the most likely function, like on a satchel or other such leather case.

Real nice, and an unusual find Don!

.........HH

 

[Moe (fl)]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Was this found in an area of French influence?

"Gallie" in French means from the old Gaul region that included France and Belgium and other European countries.

I wonder if the "IIIV" is the roman VIII (eight) backwards.

Beautiful find!

Moe

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Was this found in an area of French influence?

"Gallie" in French means from the old Gaul region that included France and Belgium and other European countries.

I wonder if the "IIIV" is the roman VIII (eight) backwards.

Beautiful find!
Moe

This was found at the homesite of a Charles Boling, African American Civil War soldier whose family settled at this site 1850-1916 era.
In fact he is buried in a cemetery across the road from where his house was.

Don

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I don't believe anyone got this.... it's so easy..... It's the VERY FIRST Timex sundial wristwatch.......

PLL

 

[trikikiwi]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

A very interesting find. It appears both old and new

I have more questions than answers here.

I suggest the Roman numerals do make sense with a hyphen between them, as III-V
This denotes Group 3 to Group 5 elements from the Periodic Table of which Gallium just happens to belong.
Check this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:III-V_compounds

The Gallium compounds are generally used in semiconductors or similar materials.

It's still all a bit of a mystery. I can't find any reference to a Gallium compound called Gallie and I don't know what the SHUC (or maybe SHUG or SMUG?) is. Could it be an acronym for a school or university - or a business?

The rear clip mechanism looks familiar and quite modern and the face looks to be from the 1970's.

Might it be from braces/suspenders??

Just some food for thought.

Cheers, Mike

 

[trikikiwi]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I meant to mention ,
I did discover that 'shuc' does mean ONE in the Ecuadorian Quechua language,

chunca shuc = eleven
ishcai chunca shuc = twenty one

 

[Cruisin]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I don't believe anyone got this.... it's so easy..... It's the VERY FIRST Timex sundial wristwatch

You're going to laugh but the first thing I thought of when I saw the photos was that it's part of an early pocket sundial. I collect sundials and that was certainly my first impression. Depends on the size, etc, and of course, whether or not it's marked "timex"

 

[Kas]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Now that it was mentioned. Look at the short nub= 12:00. Right now it's 12:30- 12:45 with the shadow. Interesting. Be nice if you had the time the pic was taken on your camera.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I think the time of day does not help with this photo for determining the time, but I will redo it tomorrow IF the sun is out. I would think to be a sundial the rivet point would have to be pointed North and then determine the time from the shadow.

My photo was taken at 2:30pm and the rivet is pointing approx 25-30* past North, pointing more Northeast, but just a guesstimate on my part based on how it was sitting on the picnic table.

I have sent the photos to a Professor at a nearby State College and he and is colleagues are trying to identify this relic also, so far no luck.

Trying to think outside the box on this relic.

Don

 

[Felinepeachy]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

Don, I hope you don't mind but I posted it on Forvm Ancient Coins and this is one of the responses.

I believe it might be trying to say 'GALLIENVS AVG'. The portrait even ever-so-vaguely resembles Gallienus. Just in case you're curious of what it's pretending to be

 

[Michelle]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

I don't believe anyone got this.... it's so easy..... It's the VERY FIRST Timex sundial wristwatch

You're going to laugh but the first thing I thought of when I saw the photos was that it's part of an early pocket sundial. I collect sundials and that was certainly my first impression. Depends on the size, etc, and of course, whether or not it's marked "timex"

I agree....thought about it and well its missing leather strap


a little pun to carry us through....

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic

OH my, this one is a good UNK, well, I just took it outside and tested the feasability of it being a functional sun dial, but maybe the main spring is broken!

OK, of course any object with a vertical pole and aligned to point north is going to roughly show the correct time, and I took the relic outside at noon today, aligned the rivet pointing North and the shadow was very close to the noon position. Does that prove anything, not really, but it also does not rule it out.

This is not a heavy constructed structure that the ears are not too strong, so whatever it was "attached to" was not something that would be getting a lot of wear and tear. Only the cover portion with the unknown figurehead is of substantial metal. There appears to be no functional use for the vertical peg that is exposed when opening the hinged cover, so perhaps sundial is a possiblity, but mounted on what if so?

I examined it closely for any markings and found nothing, no numbers, letters, symbols. Again, I believe it is period, the homestead has sat abandoned since approx WWI and I believe it was lost by whoever lived there and that was the family of the black Civil War Veteran Charles Boling, who is buried across the street in a private cemetery.

Small Towns, Black Lives - African American communities in South Jersey

RE: Port Republic

"Between 1863 and 1865 Josiah Boling, Charles Boling, William Lee, Eli Boling, James Trusty, Alexander Smith and Moses Miller served in the 24th and 25th Regiments of the United States Colored Troops during the Civil War. The community they established existed from 1850 until at least 1916."

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic (WHAT IS SOLVED?

I have gotten replies from Stockton College, they forwarded the photos to a couple archaeologists and here is their response:

I forwarded your pictures and I asked several historic
archaeologists. The historic archaeologists ( three names withheld by me) felt that its similar to a bale seal or bale seal
stamp, but there are some characteristics that suggest it could be something
else. Bale seals are typically lead and the object is brass.

Now I was taken back by this reply, since no way would I think a bale seal for this item, especially since it is brass and not lead, so I happen to know a bale seal collector and I sent the photos to him yesterday along with what the archaeologists said about it. I expected him to laugh when the suggestion of a bale seal was mentioned, I was wrong, he agreed!

Here is his reply to my item:
"Without question its a bale seal. Its of a design I have not seen... due to the very old period (ancient). Sending an image to Stacks Coin Galleries may possibly identify the obverse portrait - as I now nothing on ancients. Most of the bale seals you will see on the market are medieval and beyond - this is VERY EARLY."

Now, when I read this I still was and still now am not convinced, I cannot find any non lead bale seals on the web, so if anybody finds a photo or literature I would appreciate it.

On a followup email I just received from the bale seal collector, I think he is trying to tell me, he knows what he is talking about, but the auction is not yet posted on the web.

I have seen the ANS Collection and pay close attention to the Stacks Sales in March & April as my collection of around 80-100 bale seals will be auctioned off - probably as a group lot. I researched and collected bale seals for about five years.

So, bottom line is WHAT IS IT? Bale Seal of some type (?)

The WHO IS IT? Still unknown and still researching...........

Don

 

[dg39]

Re: A Who is it and a What is it relic (WHAT IS SOLVED?)

The design and quality of construction rules out the early periods mentioned. it is some type of clasp made in the 1900 up time period. Just the inside mechanics them selves say modern.
DG