A RARE Calif Button

[kuger]

Here is a NEW YORK LEGION button that is rare in it self.This one is two piece which as far as I know only one other exists!They were only known to be one piece,with a Smith& Young back mark.This one is W.M. Smith Co New York!!!
The New York Legion First Volunteers were sent to Calif after the Mexican/American War to secure and Police what was to become California
http://sptddog.com/sotp/nyl.html

Pictured is the two piece on the left,and a one piece on the right

 

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[Brian(upstateNY-Central Fla.)]

Fantastic buttons there

 

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[tinpan]

hi kuger, Very nice buttons and congrats

tinpan

 

[DMN]

Thanks for the replies guys!!Tice and Albert unfortunately,are mistaken in that they have them listed as New York Lancers,this is wrong.
We can find no record of this two piece either.The Backmark dates from 1847-1852,where as the Smith & Young normal mark is 1830-1858 I believe?
$400 would be a fairly good price for the one piece as I have seen them go for much more.I bought/traded for the one piece in the pic.and for not being dug by me is one of the most cherished pieces in my display.
Thanks again to all,the feeling of this find was equivalent to the gold coin find!!

Right I.P.!!
I should also note that the Legion mustered out in '48-49,so they defiantly pre date that

Some of my favorite buttons probably wouldn't be worth $100 to anyone else, but I wouldn't sell them for $1,000. There's one local one that I wouldn't sell for a lot more than that. It kind of defeats the purpose of buying a detector and searching so hard if you sell all the best stuff.

Amen,I.P.The historical significance of the 1st Volunteers is so monumental,monetary value doesnt even come into my mind!

I can put a price on any piece of metal on this earth, but the historical connection and the fact I dug it, certainly comes into play whether I sell. A valuable double can be a beautiful thing

Kuger, I'm still hoping to come across a button of any military type so my hats off to you. It's always fun to find something you have been waiting for and something rare is even better. I agree with both you and IP, there is something about finding history that eclipses value. I have given some of my finds away to the local history museums because I figure others should know about their area and if I keep them myself no one will have the full history otherwise! And the stuff I keep? Just a nice feeling knowing you found it and the context it gives you.

 

[Giant056]

Excellent find on that nice old button

 

[BuckleBoy]

OK, I have two questions:



#1 How did I miss this post?


and


#2 Why is this not on the Banner?


Any unlisted pre-CW button is a Killer find!

 

[kuger]

Thanks to all of you.I have to say I was more excited on this find than the gold coin.I can not relay the historical significance that surrounds the regiment this button represents in this area.

 

[dirt doctor]

Great going Kuger , that is just incredible !!!

H H ,
George

 

[Iron Patch]

OK, I have two questions:



#1 How did I miss this post?


and


#2 Why is this not on the Banner?


Any unlisted pre-CW button is a Killer find!

If you read down the page a bit BB you'll see they are listed, just a question of whether it's correct. I guess you could have read it and consider them unlisted because there is no correct listing? In this case it's the unlisted that isn't going to put 15k in your pocket.

 

[kuger]

OK, I have two questions:



#1 How did I miss this post?


and


#2 Why is this not on the Banner?


Any unlisted pre-CW button is a Killer find!

If you read down the page a bit BB you'll see they are listed, just a question of whether it's correct. I guess you could have read it and consider them unlisted because there is no correct listing?

Even though the Lancer is listed(which as said doesnt exist)the ones listed are one piece.I do not beleive the two piece is, even as a Lancer?There is no doubt Tice and Albert are wrong

 

[Iron Patch]

OK, I have two questions:



#1 How did I miss this post?


and


#2 Why is this not on the Banner?


Any unlisted pre-CW button is a Killer find!

If you read down the page a bit BB you'll see they are listed, just a question of whether it's correct. I guess you could have read it and consider them unlisted because there is no correct listing?

Even though the Lancer is listed(which as said doesnt exist)the ones listed are one piece.I do not beleive the two piece is, even as a Lancer?There is no doubt Tice and Albert are wrong

What do you think Tice would say if you suggested this to him? He is very easy to reach.

 

[kuger]

I would be tickled to not only state this to him,but prove it.You and I both know people write books and people can be wrong.I have been a student of the first volunteers for years and assure you in all of my studying of Calif. early history and military activity never onece has any New York Lancers ever come to light.Dont you think that just one the name would come up if they ever existed?Now research the New York Volunteers,1 st regiment,you will see the vital part they played and the base there memebers set for what Calif was to become.I provide one link above with a picture of the button,and here is anothe,T.Sherman was even involved
http://www.militarymuseum.org/sherman3.html
http://www.militarymuseum.org/Stevenson's Regiment.html
http://www.sptddog.com/sotp/nyl2.html

 

[Iron Patch]

I would be tickled to not only state this to him,but prove it.You and I both know people write books and people can be wrong.I have been a student of the first volunteers for years and assure you in all of my studying of Calif. early history and military activity never onece has any New York Lancers ever come to light.Dont you think that just one the name would come up if they ever existed?Now research the New York Volunteers,1 st regiment,you will see the vital part they played and the base there memebers set for what Calif was to become.I provide one link above with a picture of the button,and here is anothe,T.Sherman was even involved
http://www.militarymuseum.org/sherman3.html

Well you should write him. By all accounts I've heard he is friendly and would probably be more than happy to discuss this with you. Might be interesting to hear his angle, and to know if he now agrees the info. at the time those books were written was incorrect.

 

[kuger]

I would be tickled to not only state this to him,but prove it.You and I both know people write books and people can be wrong.I have been a student of the first volunteers for years and assure you in all of my studying of Calif. early history and military activity never onece has any New York Lancers ever come to light.Dont you think that just one the name would come up if they ever existed?Now research the New York Volunteers,1 st regiment,you will see the vital part they played and the base there memebers set for what Calif was to become.I provide one link above with a picture of the button,and here is anothe,T.Sherman was even involved
http://www.militarymuseum.org/sherman3.html

Well you should write him. By all accounts I've heard he is friendly and would probably be more than happy to discuss this with you. Might be interesting to hear his angle, and to know if he now agrees the info. at the time those books were written was incorrect.

Would love to,I know of several guys that have dug these buttons and beleive that if it was printed in a book its the gospel.That really irks me as the buttons are being misrepresented.They deserve to be know for what they truly represent!!!

 

[Ironman!]

I'm gone for a week on vacation and I come back and see this absolutely stunning rare piece of California history staring back at me!

The one piece is a find in its self but this two piece is ultra rare!!

If the initials on the backmark are truly W. M. Smith then that would make it Walter M. Smith who was another of several partners of Young, Smith & Co. over the years. I would speculate that it would have been during the years of 1846-52 when William H. Smith was the principal operator of the firm. Maybe Walter was a son or brother of William?

Whatever the case may be it is definitely pre CW and an early piece of history for the military presence in California!

Thanks for sharing this super find Kuger!

Ironman!

 

[kuger]

I'm gone for a week on vacation and I come back and see this absolutely stunning rare piece of California history staring back at me!

The one piece is a find in its self but this two piece is ultra rare!!

If the initials on the backmark are truly W. M. Smith then that would make it Walter M. Smith who was another of several partners of Young, Smith & Co. over the years. I would speculate that it would have been during the years of 1846-52 when William H. Smith was the principal operator of the firm. Maybe Walter was a son or brother of William?

Whatever the case may be it is definitely pre CW and an early piece of history for the military presence in California!

Thanks for sharing this super find Kuger!

Ironman!

Thanks buddy,I am trying to gather as much info as I can to present to Mr. Tice when that meeting comes to light.
You were supposed to be here,and thats the only thing that could have made the historical weekend better, but family comes first!Thanks for the kudo's,and info!!!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Nice going. I've heard of a handful of NYL buttons being found in CA, but never gave thought to whether they were 2-piece or 1-piece. My friend found and sold it for $600, but I'm guessing that was a 1-piece. I have an email out to him, to find out, and will report back with the answer.

 

[kuger]

Nice going. I've heard of a handful of NYL buttons being found in CA, but never gave thought to whether they were 2-piece or 1-piece. My friend found and sold it for $600, but I'm guessing that was a 1-piece. I have an email out to him, to find out, and will report back with the answer.

Thanks Tom,I am betting one piece as our little network has kept pretty good tabs on the NYL's that have surfaced,but there are many more I am sure that slide under the radar.I will be anxious to hear back from ya.
A friend of mine just bought a collection that came from your area and supposedly there was a two piece involved(that would be the only other one we know of)but he has not sent me proof yet.He picked up a couple really nice Phoenix',and Republic of Mexico buttons.....I would love to dig one of those!!!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Kuger, Just got the answer: The one a friend of mine found here in Monterey County was a 1 piece NYL button. He was quite surprised when the bid offer came in for it. Heck, I've found scores of reales, seateds, phoenix buttons, etc... and never found one (durnit! )

And just curious: what's this about a collection sold that came from "my area"? This might be my stuff you're talking about (I just sold off some stuff), and in fact, that same buyer was the one who bought my friend's NYL button quite awhile back. So we're probably talking about the same collector person

 

[kuger]

Kuger, Just got the answer: The one a friend of mine found here in Monterey County was a 1 piece NYL button. He was quite surprised when the bid offer came in for it. Heck, I've found scores of reales, seateds, phoenix buttons, etc... and never found one (durnit! )

And just curious: what's this about a collection sold that came from "my area"? This might be my stuff you're talking about (I just sold off some stuff), and in fact, that same buyer was the one who bought my friend's NYL button quite awhile back. So we're probably talking about the same collector person

You know the guy but it wasnt you.Thanks for the info!!There has been more NYL's found in your area than any other as thats where they were headquartered I am pretty sure I know who bought your buddies as well,the same fellow that Paul gave his N.Y.L. to?

 

[dfx willy]

Thanks for the replies guys!!Tice and Albert unfortunately,are mistaken in that they have them listed as New York Lancers,this is wrong.
We can find no record of this two piece either.The Backmark dates from 1847-1852,where as the Smith & Young normal mark is 1830-1858 I believe?
$400 would be a fairly good price for the one piece as I have seen them go for much more.I bought/traded for the one piece in the pic.and for not being dug by me is one of the most cherished pieces in my display.
Thanks again to all,the feeling of this find was equivalent to the gold coin find!!

Right I.P.!!
I should also note that the Legion mustered out in '48-49,so they defiantly pre date that

Some of my favorite buttons probably wouldn't be worth $100 to anyone else, but I wouldn't sell them for $1,000. There's one local one that I wouldn't sell for a lot more than that. It kind of defeats the purpose of buying a detector and searching so hard if you sell all the best stuff. i agree willy