A HUGE find close to home

[BioProfessor]

I didn't make this find and it wasn't made with a metal detector but it parallels some of the conversations we have had on the forum about finds and who owns them. The story is new on CNN this morning and should be worth following.

Seems a couple had a contractor do some work on their bathroom (**a person lets you metal detect their land**). In doing the work, the contractor finds about $180,000.00 in now rare bills from the 1930's (**while metal detecting, you find a hoard of coins and bills buried by the barn**). The homeowner offers the contractor a 10% finders fee. The contractor says "Finder's keepers." and hires a lawyer.

Should be interesting to find out how this turns out. Do the homeowners really own it and get to keep it? Does the contractor who found it get to keep it? Do they have to split it? Does it go back to the family who sold the house where their father lived and hide the money (money wrapped in newspaper dated during the time)?

However it turns out, it may have an impact on our hobby.

Daryl

 

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[crazyjarhead]

You would think that it would belong to the rightfull owner of the property. I'm sure this will drag-out into history making news.... especially when the word "LAWYER" is breathed out of ones mouth. It now is everyones!!!

 

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[Thomas007]

I have read stories like this before. It was reasoned that the home owner would not have found the money without the involvement of the contractor so in the case I recall it was split 50-50 by the judge.

IANAL (I am not a lawyer)

HH

Sanat

 

[diggin jimmy hoffa]

Morally, she should give him more than the 10 percent. Legally, the money is hers and she doesn't have to give him squat. The finders keepers ruling that they speak of in the article applies to property found that has been publically abandoned and that no legal ownership can be determined of. This property, the cash, became the property of the lady who purchased the home because it was part of the home that she purchased even if she did not know the home contained it.

I am in total agreement with this. In purchasing property you are buying the whole even the unseen.
DJH

 

[watercolor]

Well that would be my argument as well. The contractor was just greedy. It will be interesting to see who gets to keep the money but I think it is clear who the WINNERS will be. . . . . . . . the Lawyers!

ME22 is pretty much on target with this one. Greed can be an expensive proposition. . . a real FIND for the lawyers.

After reading the article, I think BOTH the contractor AND the current homeowner will be deemed as a "finder" since they both jointly recovered the majority of the hidden money. Next, will be their legal obligation to return the money to the ORIGINAL owner or the heirs of the original owner's estate. So. . . a good chance that both parties may end up with only a finder's fee (at best) AND some hefty attorney fees (for sure).

 

[N.J.THer]

Many years ago, my brother was hired to do some plumbing work for a couple that just purchased an old home. In the process of doing the work he discovered a coin collection hidden in the wall. He told me that when he informed the owners they seemed surprised then stated that they knew it was there. He did not get a reward but soon after the couple sold the house for something bigger.

As far as this case goes I feel it is the home owners since they hired the contractor to do specific work and that is all he was there to do. That is like saying while he was working he found $100 bucks sitting on the table so he should be allowed to keep it. As far as metal detecting goes it depends on what the agreement is between the landowner and the detector.

But as other stated, the real winners are the lawyers. If you have the contractor, current home owner and most likely past home owners in the legal mix and there are appeals it could eat away at that amount very quickly.

NJ

 

[Marty-Graw]

Morally, she should give him more than the 10 percent. Legally, the money is hers and she doesn't have to give him squat. The finders keepers ruling that they speak of in the article applies to property found that has been publically abandoned and that no legal ownership can be determined of. This property, the cash, became the property of the lady who purchased the home because it was part of the home that she purchased even if she did not know the home contained it.

I am in total agreement with this. In purchasing property you are buying the whole even the unseen.
DJH

i totally agree.....when i bought my house (built in 1935) the first thing that i thought of was MDing the yard....it never once occurred to me that any coins i found i should return to the seller....I would have offered the 10% reward before he mentioned going to court......after the contractor hired a lawyer the offer would have been withdrawn

 

[gemee]

Ok, my two cents worth.... It never ceases to amaze me in cases like this WHY the contractor did not keep his mouth shut. Is it just me, or does anyone else here think that sometimes the best route to take is SILENCE. The contractor could of easily hid the loot in his toolbox and not uttered a word of this to the homeowner, who would of been none the wiser about the money.
Moral of the story, when you find something BIG, sometimes it is best to just keep your mouth shut.

 

[wwwtimmcp]

we had a contractor here in ohio claim he found money on one of his properties. turns out he found it on a customers property and they will get all of it.

 

[Copperhead]

IMO if you want to be technical about it... the money really belongs to the persons family that stashed it in the first place.

I guess I’m in the minority in thinking that the contractor should of just kept his mouth shut. If he said nothing, how would the homeowners been hurt? They obviously didn’t know it was there. It’s NOT the same as the contractor stealing money from the owners wallet off the dresser. I really can’t see their claim to it, they didn’t know it existed.

Lets compare it to metal detecting

You seek permission and have legal access to some homeowners property…
But you never discuss the handling of anything you may find in the ground with the homeowner

The contractor is hired to do remodeling work and has legal access to the homeowners property…
But never discussed the handling of anything he may find in the walls with the homeowner

While digging in the homeowners field you discover jar of gold coins in mint condition that exceeds a value of 100.000 dollars

While working on the homeowners house the contractor discovers a bundle of old money in excess of 100,000 dollars…


The happy Mder heads home…jar in hand..and posts his great find….

The contractor calls the homeowner and says hey look what I found..

The Mder gets lots of congrats and slaps on the back

The contractor has his find taken away, and gets an offer of 10% of the find

In both cases the homeowner had no idea a treasure that was hidden on their property

They were both there legally, they both found something the homeowner knew nothing about…

IMO : neither is under the obligation to inform the homeowner of what they
found…unless they want too

neither is under any obligation to search for the true original owner
…..unless they want too…

I’d have no problem with either finder keeping his mouth shut

 

[davest]

I'll tell you how it worked out for me and my dad. A long time ago we were hired to paint the interior of a home whos' male owner passed away leaving a widow. It was an old home, probably built in 1900 or so, not a tract home by any expanse of imagination. You guys that live in Pennsylvania know the type of home, three story, single lot, garage out back and a pain in the butt to paint. but I digress. We started in the upstairs bedrooms painting ceilings, as the homeowner picked out colors. We started doing the walls and removing the radiator covers to do a thorough job. We started finding jars of silver quarters and halves behind the covers and they were full. My dad said, put them on the kitchen table and that's what I did. I'm not sure if he got an atta boy or whatever cause I was too young to even think of doing anything cept what he told me to do. Sometimes at night, I can still feel the weight of those jars.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think it belongs to the 1930s mint.

BDD...Kirk

Only you would say something like that, Kirk.

Belongs to the homeowners.
I once rented a room to a man who found a gun hidden in my backyard and took it. I feel that he stole it from me. Everything on my property is mine, wether I know it is there or not.

 

[Copperhead]

Apologies to Daryl...Sorry I didn't read your first post....didn't mean to plagiarize you...

I think it belongs to the 1930s mint.

BDD...Kirk

Only you would say something like that, Kirk.

Belongs to the homeowners.
I once rented a room to a man who found a gun hidden in my backyard and took it. I feel that he stole it from me. Everything on my property is mine, wether I know it is there or not.

Don't tell the cops that if they find somebody planted pot in your back yard...

 

[Kas]

An old timer treasure hunter, Glenn Carson, now semi-retired from the hobby and close to 80-years-old, told me something I've never forgotten. Don't tell anyone, anything, about what you find, ever.

Dig it, quietly pack it away get in your vehicle and leave. You can whoop and hollar down the road.

Nuff said.

 

[WilliamBoyd]

This story was on the national CBS news this evening.

Considering the amount of cash, a detailed history of who owned or lived
in the house would be in order.

 

[tymcmurray]

I think it is a no brainer on this one, the homeowner is the rightful owner of the cash, no doubt about it. The contractor was hired to do a job and finding the cash was no different than if the wife had lost a diamond ring down the drain and they found it. It belongs to the owner of the item and the property on which it was found.
The contractor was not given permission to look for anything.

Now, for a metal detectorist, it gets a bit more muddied, since the owners gave permission for you to detect and the outcome of detecting IS finding items. So, there it might go either way or split if one were to challenge you on what you found metal detecting with the owner's permission.........

Don

Well said and agreed.

 

[BARGuy]

I agree with those that vote for silence on the part of the contractor...Dumb, dumb, dumb. Got any idea how many "lost treasures" have REALLY been found? Cap'n Carson's got the right idea.

But as in a lot of things, it all depends on whose ox is being gored!

My opinion only, your results may vary.

DR

 

[BureFreak]

I just read the top few posts of this topic and then decided to reply without reading the rest so forgive me if I am regurgitating what anyone else said.

While the contractor did discover the money, he is not the rightful owner. If the money is on the property, it belongs to the owner. If they gave him permission to search for hidden or buried money, he might have a small case, but the money would still rightfully belong to the owners. Anything we find as relic or coin hunters on someone's private property technically belongs to the owner. It is only through their goodness that we are able to keep our findings. The contractor should feel blessed that the owners offered 10%. As a relic hunter, I support the owners on this 100%.

I don't know if anyone remembers the case that someone presented on Treasurenet a while back about the musket that had been purchased at an antique store for a little bit of money. Upon inspection of the musket, it was discovered that the former owner's will was within the staff, along with a large sum of money. While the owner of the musket ended up giving all of the money to the decendants of the musket, that person was completely entitled to the money. This would be like the owner of the antique shop trying to get some of the money after they had already sold the musket. There is no reason why anyone else deserves that money besides the owner of the house.

God forbid the courts side with the contrator.

 

[ivan salis]

how about the "rightful" original owner who saved it up? and his rightful heirs ? --- they do indeed have a strong claim ---from what I understand a Mr P. Dunne put away the money (it was marked with his name in some manner )--- thus although lost --its legal "owner" is easily known --thus it should be returned to him (or his legal heirs) --- since it can be easily found out who the "rightful" owner was / is --it was not abandoned in the normal meaning -- lost and unable to figger out who it "legally" belongs to since it was clearly Mr Dunnes money -- thus it belongs to his heirs --- the home owner has a shot with the everything on and in the house and land was bought by me at the time of sale -- the contractor was a dope --from what I understand he called the homeowner telling of the find --- he could have easily kept his big mouth shut & took the find with no one the wiser for it ---not the right thing but what many would have done ---( and after telling the home owner he was was dumb for not taking the 10% finders fee) --- the home owners a dope too ---now because the homeowner didn't want a 60 - 40 split with the contractor -- even if the home owner wins they will have to declare it as income to both the feds and the state of ohio and pay taxes on the "windfall" plus pay legal fees and court cost that will most likely be over 40% of the total when all is said and done ( thus costing him more and making a life long enemy in the deal) --that is if the "long lost kin" don't move in and dry gulch the both em --- stupidity (contractor) and greed (contractor / homeowner) will cost them both dearly ---what a pair of morons --- what could have been a 90-10 or 60 -40 freindly quiet bit of bussiness between the two of them -- now has everybody scrambling to get a piece of the pie --- as bob marx says "treasure is trouble" --- Ivan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think it is a no brainer on this one, the homeowner is the rightful owner of the cash, no doubt about it. The contractor was hired to do a job and finding the cash was no different than if the wife had lost a diamond ring down the drain and they found it. It belongs to the owner of the item and the property on which it was found.
The contractor was not given permission to look for anything.

Now, for a metal detectorist, it gets a bit more muddied, since the owners gave permission for you to detect and the outcome of detecting IS finding items. So, there it might go either way or split if one were to challenge you on what you found metal detecting with the owner's permission.........

Don

Well said and agreed.

I also agree.

I find money and valuables sometimes while working in peoples homes. I find money or jewelry behind the HWH, washer, dryer, refrigerator or furniture. Often in the attic. Nothing that I find belongs to me. I give it to the owner or leave it in place. It is none of my business. Much different than metal detecting for valuables with permission to keep a percentage.

 

[cazar]

this is sort of a no brainer...of course different states and areas have different laws...

but the money belongs to the house owner at the time...no heirs since the money was not known
about...

this is sort of like the various wrecks that have been salvaged...the people had to find it, salvage it and
get it to port..then the insurance companies filed suit on it..saying it was theirs...whoooops ...no it is
not..several cases bear this out

when you buy a house or property...if it is NOT specifically in the deed that anything that you find on
said property is the former owners ( oil, gas mineral water rights for example) what you find is yours
as the homeowner or property owner.. there are also various cavaets to this but this is a simple explanation... who knows..the old owners may not of known of the money either..

now I know that I will get some arguments..but 1) the contractor is wrong 2) he is legally guilty of theft
of over 1000K ..( a felony) and the homeowners are the legal owners of the currency...

be interesting to note how much the sharks get ...before the other people get any

respects