A Heap of Proof.

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Oroblanco said:
HarrrUPMPH! Now there goes MY plan to swap YOU for your palace with this lovely fixer-upper...
View attachment 1207435
Hmm now I will have to find another potential buyer!


Sorry for the sidetrack, please do continue.
:coffee2: :coffee2:
Click to expand...

Dreamy... looks like most of West Philadelphia only, with a lawn.

Apache Peraltas?


It's December 9th, 1969 and 135 men are about to give up their ten day siege of the abandoned federal penitentiary on Alcatraz Island. Across the country, in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, three Indian Angles, descendants of the Apache leader Cochise announce their plans to lead a cavalcade of cars to California hoping to eventually deliver food, money and hope to those holding Alcatraz.


Their story inspires the exhausted men on Alcatraz and others sympathetic to their cause and the siege continues on for some 19 months.


These tree women, these Indian Angles, were also descendants of Don Juan de Peralta, Quartermaster General of the Spanish Army in New Orleans. They are also heirs to the Peralta land "concessions" in Louisiana (400 acres in Baton Rouge), Arizona, and possibly Mississippi.


It's a very strange and exciting new twist, this Peralta - Apache connection.

Below: Mrs. E.J. Peralta, her daughters Sylvia & Donna. The "Indian Angles"
 

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Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
Hal, women WERE at a prememium in those days :laughing7::laughing7: as a matter of fact ------
Click to expand...

I think that you are correct although I only observed them from a stroller.

Still, I think that it is very interesting to see a Peralta/Apache connection. Anyone interested in this history might assume, from the legends, that there would be some historic animosity between the Peraltas and the Apache people. But here we have just the opposite. There was, at one point, a marriage between the two groups, resulting in children and grandchildren.

So, at what point did these two blood lines cross and perhaps more importantly, where or how did it happen?
Its an amazing history that could potentially confirm the idea of a Peralta presence in the Superstitions. That part of this mystery has been misinterpreted and overlooked IMO.

Today, there are more than 300 descendants of Don Juan de Peralta. Their Baton Rouge land concession (400 acres) alone was worth $30,000,000 in 1969.
 

Psychic abilities Hal !! The Spanish were at the top of the Apache hate list. Their females were very controlled. So there must have been some collusion there indicating that deals with the Apache were possible, hence the depositories in the Caballos...
 

Completely possible at various times in their histories.
The Burbridge map points to someone mapping/exploring the Superstitions before the Peraltas.
We know that La Barge was there at some point.
There were others for sure.
 

Don Juan de Peralta (generation 1) owned at least three female slaves after his arrival in New Orleans.

Venus, 26: Sold for 300 Piastre in 1796
Maria, 30: Purchased for 400 Pieastre in 1794
Unnamed (New Inventory From Africa), 25, Purchased for ?/? in 1793

Miguel, Jose, and Juanita (generation 2 - first to be born in the New World), would have been very familiar with the practice of owning slaves.
 

hal did a short search on Mrs. E.J. Peralta, and found a Miss E.J. Peralta 1877
going across the bay to San Leandro, CA
wonder if its a name her/him after, we have 6 women named virginia leigh
in my fam to date, 1st was from 1794

[h=2]Daily Alta California, Volume 29, Number 9912, 28 May 1877 — OVERLAND TRAVEL. [ARTICLE][/h]
cdnc


Daily Alta California 28 May 1877 ? California Digital Newspaper Collection
 

cw0909 said:
hal did a short search on Mrs. E.J. Peralta, and found a Miss E.J. Peralta 1877
going across the bay to San Leandro, CA
wonder if its a name her/him after, we have 6 women named virginia leigh
in my fam to date, 1st was from 1794

Daily Alta California, Volume 29, Number 9912, 28 May 1877 — OVERLAND TRAVEL. [ARTICLE]

cdnc


Daily Alta California 28 May 1877 ? California Digital Newspaper Collection
Click to expand...

I have a large part of the family tree but one of Don Juan's children is proving difficult to trace. The California Peraltas and their land grants trace back to a Sgt. Peralta who went to California with early Spanish pioneers. I have not found a direct connection between the two families if one exists. What I can tell you is that the Peraltas of New Orleans were successful in business, respected in their community, and politically influential right up to and thru the War of 1861 - 1865... and even after it for some years. Regarding any connection to Arizona and its possible exploration, my guess, if it happened, would be Manuel Peralta or one of his sons. Just an educated guess.

What I find funny, ironically funny, is that Juan was known to have been overly protective of his beautiful daughter Juanita, especially with the French and Creole. (she married JBL Adam, son of a French patriot). That same overly protective father figure, Don Peralta, is found in many of the early tales about the Dutchman's Lost Mine. Oren Arnold wrote about it on several occasions.

 

Last edited:
This is a very interesting collection of records from the Notre Dame Archives: Notre Dame Archives: Calendar (1797/11/18)
Either Juan and Maria were married twice, once in Havana and again in New Orleans, or Maria gave birth to Manuel eight months before she was married.

[h=1]Calendar (1797/11/18)[/h] 1797 Nov. 18 Peralta, Juan
Testimony produced by Juan Peralta to prove that his son Manuel was baptized in St. Luis Church in (New Orleans).
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Peralta, Juan
(New Orleans, Louisiana)
to Father (Patrick Walsh) Patricio Welsh
New Orleans, Louisiana
Peralta, sergeant of the 2nd Company of Grenadiers, has repeatedly requested the baptismal certificate of his son Manuel, which has not been given and which seems to not be found in the registers. He asks that testimony be taken from the witnesses who know that he was baptized. He was baptized by Father Jose M(ari)a Valdes, O.F.M., no longer there; the godparents were the late Sergeant Man(ue)l Gutierrez and Maria Fran(cis)co Sanchez, no longer in the colony. The witnesses are Lieutenant Pedro Blanco, Ensign Federico Auteman, and Sergeant Maxin Alen.
A.L.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Walsh, Father Patricio
(New Orleans, Louisiana)
The information is to be taken; the aid of the Governor is to be asked by means of a copy of this decree. Father Agustin de Lamare, (O.F.M.), chaplain of the regiment, is to certify whether the baptismal record of Man(ue)l Peralta is found in the registers. Estevan de Quinones, as notary certifies this decree and adds in notes that he notified Peralta of the decree and notified Baron Fran(cis)co (Luis Hector) de Carondelet.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Carondelet, (Francisco Luis Hector), Baron de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
The above mentioned soldiers are to declare as asked by the ecclesiastical tribunal.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Quinones, Estevan de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Quinones went to the house of Lamare who declared that he has not found a record of the baptism of Manuel Peralta in the registers. Lamare signs.
A.D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Quinones, Estevan de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)

Auteman appears and swears that he was a guest at the baptism of Manuel Peralta, son of Juan Peralta and Maria Dolores Fromayor, in the parish church in (New Orleans) performed by Valdes on June 20, 1787; the boy was born on April 3, 1787. The godparents were Gutierrez and Maria Fran(cis)ca Sanchez. Auteman signs and Walsh signs with his flourish.
A.D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Quinones, Estevan de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Blanco appears and swears (to the same information as given by Auteman). Blanco signs; Walsh signs with his flourish.
A.D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 17
Walsh, Father Patricio
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Having examined the evidence, Walsh approves the petition. The decree is to be given to the plaintiff and a copy kept. Quinones certifies this, adding in notes that he notified Peralta, that he received 30 reales for his fee and that he made the copies.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
(1797) (Nov. 18)
Peralta, Juan
(New Orleans, Louisiana)
to Bishop (Luis Penalver y Cardenas
New Orleans, Louisiana)
The enclosed proceedings prove that Peralta's son Man(ue)l was born April 3, 1787and baptized on June 20 by Baldes who forgot to record it. Though proven, no orders were given to record it in the register; he asks this favor. Also, as can be seen from the marriage certificate enclosed, Peralta's wife's name is Maria Dolores Formallot and in the baptismal certificate of his daughter Juana Climaca, also enclosed, she is recorded as M(ari)a Fran(cis)co Sanchez who is Peralta's sister-in-law. He asks that (Penalver) order that a note be made of this error.

L.S. (Spanish)
--------
1797 Nov. 18

(Penalver y Cardenas, Luis), Bishop of
(New Orleans), Louisiana
The documents and petition presented by Peralta, a native of Barcelona, son of Jose Nunez Peralta and Teresa Palou, requesting the recording of the baptism of Manuel, son of Peralta and M(ari)a Formayor, a native of Havana and daughter of Federico Formayor and Margarita Ballier, are to be filed. Since the Vicar General declares that the evidence is sufficient Lamare is to record the baptism and make the necessary additions to the record which states that the mother of Peralta's daughter is M(ari)a Fran(cis)ca Sanchez. Quinones certifies this decree and adds in a note that he notified Peralta of it.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1797 Nov. 17
Sedella, O.M.Cap., Father Antonio de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Sedella, pastor of the Cathedral of New Orleans, certifies that in one of the marriage registers, there is the following entry: "In the church of St. Luis of New Orleans, on December 9, 1787, Sedella married Peralta and Maria de los Dolores Formayor. Signed by Sedella, Vicente Llorca, Jose Martinez and Antonio Ximenes."

A.D.S. (Spanish)

--------
1797 Aug. 21

Lamare, O.F.M., Father Agustin
New Orleans, Louisiana
Lamare certifies that in the register of baptisms of the children of officers of the regiment there appears the following: "In the parish church on June 24, 1790, Valdes baptised a white girl, born March 30, 1790, naming her Juana Climaca, daughter of Peralta and Maria Francisco Sanches; the godparents being Francisco Perez and Margarita Maria Fons Mayor. Valdes signs."
A.D.S. (Spanish)
V-1-e A.L.S., D.S., A.D.S., 14pp. 4to. L.S. (Spanish)
23
 

No change Simon, I still live in Tucson. That's my second Casa!

Actually, My wife and I have been shopping for a Cabin since about the 1980's. This one fell into our laps as it was in escrow at the time we were shown the property so we never gave it a second look. The Agent told us they were mad at the buyers but we never thought we had a chance in hell it would fall apart real estate deals are hard to break.

The contract fell apart and we came in with a cash offer. Since the sellers were mad at the buyer for nit picking the property they tore up the first contract and went with our cash offer.

Three weeks later we had the keys.

Just spent five days up there in the cool rain and tall pines!

What a beautiful place!

I can't wait to go back!

Apache Country for sure.
 

Hal Croves said:
This is a very interesting collection of records from the Notre Dame Archives: Notre Dame Archives: Calendar (1797/11/18)
Either Juan and Maria were married twice, once in Havana and again in New Orleans, or Maria gave birth to Manuel eight months before she was married.

Calendar (1797/11/18)

1797 Nov. 18 Peralta, Juan
Testimony produced by Juan Peralta to prove that his son Manuel was baptized in St. Luis Church in (New Orleans).
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Peralta, Juan
(New Orleans, Louisiana)
to Father (Patrick Walsh) Patricio Welsh
New Orleans, Louisiana
Peralta, sergeant of the 2nd Company of Grenadiers, has repeatedly requested the baptismal certificate of his son Manuel, which has not been given and which seems to not be found in the registers. He asks that testimony be taken from the witnesses who know that he was baptized. He was baptized by Father Jose M(ari)a Valdes, O.F.M., no longer there; the godparents were the late Sergeant Man(ue)l Gutierrez and Maria Fran(cis)co Sanchez, no longer in the colony. The witnesses are Lieutenant Pedro Blanco, Ensign Federico Auteman, and Sergeant Maxin Alen.
A.L.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Walsh, Father Patricio
(New Orleans, Louisiana)
The information is to be taken; the aid of the Governor is to be asked by means of a copy of this decree. Father Agustin de Lamare, (O.F.M.), chaplain of the regiment, is to certify whether the baptismal record of Man(ue)l Peralta is found in the registers. Estevan de Quinones, as notary certifies this decree and adds in notes that he notified Peralta of the decree and notified Baron Fran(cis)co (Luis Hector) de Carondelet.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Carondelet, (Francisco Luis Hector), Baron de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
The above mentioned soldiers are to declare as asked by the ecclesiastical tribunal.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Quinones, Estevan de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Quinones went to the house of Lamare who declared that he has not found a record of the baptism of Manuel Peralta in the registers. Lamare signs.
A.D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Quinones, Estevan de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)

Auteman appears and swears that he was a guest at the baptism of Manuel Peralta, son of Juan Peralta and Maria Dolores Fromayor, in the parish church in (New Orleans) performed by Valdes on June 20, 1787; the boy was born on April 3, 1787. The godparents were Gutierrez and Maria Fran(cis)ca Sanchez. Auteman signs and Walsh signs with his flourish.
A.D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 2
Quinones, Estevan de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Blanco appears and swears (to the same information as given by Auteman). Blanco signs; Walsh signs with his flourish.
A.D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1794 Sep. 17
Walsh, Father Patricio
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Having examined the evidence, Walsh approves the petition. The decree is to be given to the plaintiff and a copy kept. Quinones certifies this, adding in notes that he notified Peralta, that he received 30 reales for his fee and that he made the copies.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
(1797) (Nov. 18)
Peralta, Juan
(New Orleans, Louisiana)
to Bishop (Luis Penalver y Cardenas
New Orleans, Louisiana)
The enclosed proceedings prove that Peralta's son Man(ue)l was born April 3, 1787and baptized on June 20 by Baldes who forgot to record it. Though proven, no orders were given to record it in the register; he asks this favor. Also, as can be seen from the marriage certificate enclosed, Peralta's wife's name is Maria Dolores Formallot and in the baptismal certificate of his daughter Juana Climaca, also enclosed, she is recorded as M(ari)a Fran(cis)co Sanchez who is Peralta's sister-in-law. He asks that (Penalver) order that a note be made of this error.

L.S. (Spanish)
--------
1797 Nov. 18

(Penalver y Cardenas, Luis), Bishop of
(New Orleans), Louisiana
The documents and petition presented by Peralta, a native of Barcelona, son of Jose Nunez Peralta and Teresa Palou, requesting the recording of the baptism of Manuel, son of Peralta and M(ari)a Formayor, a native of Havana and daughter of Federico Formayor and Margarita Ballier, are to be filed. Since the Vicar General declares that the evidence is sufficient Lamare is to record the baptism and make the necessary additions to the record which states that the mother of Peralta's daughter is M(ari)a Fran(cis)ca Sanchez. Quinones certifies this decree and adds in a note that he notified Peralta of it.
D.S. (Spanish)
--------
1797 Nov. 17
Sedella, O.M.Cap., Father Antonio de
New Orleans, (Louisiana)
Sedella, pastor of the Cathedral of New Orleans, certifies that in one of the marriage registers, there is the following entry: "In the church of St. Luis of New Orleans, on December 9, 1787, Sedella married Peralta and Maria de los Dolores Formayor. Signed by Sedella, Vicente Llorca, Jose Martinez and Antonio Ximenes."

A.D.S. (Spanish)

--------
1797 Aug. 21

Lamare, O.F.M., Father Agustin
New Orleans, Louisiana
Lamare certifies that in the register of baptisms of the children of officers of the regiment there appears the following: "In the parish church on June 24, 1790, Valdes baptised a white girl, born March 30, 1790, naming her Juana Climaca, daughter of Peralta and Maria Francisco Sanches; the godparents being Francisco Perez and Margarita Maria Fons Mayor. Valdes signs."
A.D.S. (Spanish)
V-1-e A.L.S., D.S., A.D.S., 14pp. 4to. L.S. (Spanish)
23
Click to expand...

I had read somewhere the Peralta's were friends of the Apache I can't remember where.

Did you find the link to Miguel Peralta?

The evidence may lie in the Archives of the Indies since the records were destroyed in Santa Fe.

Or maybe Mexico City?
 

Bill Riley said:
I had read somewhere the Peralta's were friends of the Apache I can't remember where.

Did you find the link to Miguel Peralta?

The evidence may lie in the Archives of the Indies since the records were destroyed in Santa Fe.

Or maybe Mexico City?
Click to expand...

Not yet Bill.
There are several Peralta family trees to untangle.
 

Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
I agree Bill, a wondeful home to relax in..
Click to expand...

It's about five hours drive from Tucson. And don't have car trouble up there! Showlow is the closest place for tires about an hour and a half away!

I had one of my coil packs stop working on my V10 Excursion making it a V9. Found the power wire to the coil pack was broken internally inside the insulation while pulling the connector off of it. We scoured the entire small town of Alpine looking for a 2 inch piece of copper flexible insulated 16 gauge wire. Took up half a day. Finally the garage in town gave us some scrap wire they had lying about. Saved our day! I guess pack rats had chewed through it at one point and pulled the wire enough to break it. I've had trouble with that one cylinder missing, spitting , sputtering, for awhile now.

Runs like a champ now and I just picked up a new pigtail for the coil pack. She'll run great with all 10 hitting!

Also experienced a hard ride so we stopped and I checked my tire pressures. Found all four tires had 150psi in them! Talk about a hard ass ride!

I don't know who did it but I suspect the tire shop when I had them mounted. I'm lucky those tires didn't burst! They must have had a bad gauge.
 

Hal Croves said:
Not yet Bill.
There are several Peralta family trees to untangle.
Click to expand...

I found some stuff in Las Cruces you may be interested in Hal.

Just do a search in New Mexico for archives of Spanish Soldiers there.
 

Bill Riley said:
I found some stuff in Las Cruces you may be interested in Hal.

Just do a search in New Mexico for archives of Spanish Soldiers there.
Click to expand...

Bill,
I have come to the conclusion that the Peralta name must be the Spanish equivalent of Smith in America.

I also suspect that the family has an early Jewish lineage however, I can't prove it quite yet.
 

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