A Glance At The World Picture During The Beale Era

[tat2guy]

It's not always the man with a degree that finds the truth.

Lol far from it here. No degree just passionate for history and a good mystery

 

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[ECS]

The dots are all there, now it's just connecting some of them. After being in NC and Va the last 2 days I found some more great leads with this and they link to Bedford connecting Girard there. More on that soon

Probably had to do with the aquiring of ginseng to trade with the Chinese for opium,which was shipped out of Baltimore by way of William Patterson's CANTON Co. on the merchant vessel,TORPEDO,Captained by Mathew (Mexico) Sherman.

 

[bigscoop]

Probably had to do with the aquiring of ginseng to trade with the Chinese for opium,which was shipped out of Baltimore by way of William Patterson's CANTON Co. on the merchant vessel,TORPEDO,Captained by Mathew (Mexico) Sherman.

"I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar to keep to our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places."

In the above statement we, perhaps, learn some important things, beyond what might be obvious. First, the statement is simply a recommendation suggesting that "they all" keep to their promise. In this statement perhaps we learn that while acting as independents they were all beholding to the same promise, to the same source. Hold this thought.

Sometime after the Camp de Asile episode Riguad made a public complaint that Lallemand had failed to distribute the funds to the survivors of Camp de Asile as promised. Now hold this thought.

During the era it was common to divide up the remaining capital of concluded enterprises into shares, this still being common today. All of those people at Camp de Asile and Bolivar were probably entitled to some portion of this remaining capital, as were the investors in those enterprises. So, think of it as the transporting of this remaining capital to, "the indicated distribution centers" instead of simply, "indicated places". So at the very least we know there was likely more then one distribution center, or indicated place.

With what we've collected so far, no doubt the Bedford area was one of these indicated places.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar to keep to our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places."

In the above statement we, perhaps, learn some important things, beyond what might be obvious. First, the statement is simply a recommendation suggesting that "they all" keep to their promise. In this statement perhaps we learn that while acting as independents they were all beholding to the same promise, to the same source. Hold this thought.

Sometime after the Camp de Asile episode Riguad made a public complaint that Lallemand had failed to distribute the funds to the survivors of Camp de Asile as promised. Now hold this thought.

During the era it was common to divide up the remaining capital of concluded enterprises into shares, this still being common today. All of those people at Camp de Asile and Bolivar were probably entitled to some portion of this remaining capital, as were the investors in those enterprises. So, think of it as the transporting of this remaining capital to, "the indicated distribution centers" instead of simply, "indicated places". So at the very least we know there was likely more then one distribution center, or indicated place.

With what we've collected so far, no doubt the Bedford area was one of these indicated places.

In VIRGINIA...?

 

[bigscoop]

In VIRGINIA...?

.....yep. Reb, I "guarantee you" there were people in the Bedford Virginia region who had been to Texas and the Galveston Island settlements. "I guarantee it!" This is why the unknown author made mention of "Beale's" darker complexion, as if great exposure to the sun.

 

[ECS]

The War of 1812 revealed weaknesses in the Federal government-in political authority,defense,and in finance with Girard an opium businessman who dealt with pirates loaned the government the funds to fight that war.
After the war,Spanish territory extended to the Oregon territory which included west coast Canada(occupied and claimed by both the US and Great Britian),and bordered on Russian Alaska.
In 1815,Russia,Austria,and Prussia formed the "HOLY ALLIANCE",for the purpose of restoring the absolute divine right authority of the thrones that had crumbled by the French Revolution and by the Napoleonic Wars,during which the American Spanish colonies had declared themselves independent republics.When the King of Spain asked for help in restoring his colonies,France joined the party,and it became the "QUADRUPLE ALLIANCE"
This is what brought about the MONROE DOCTRINE of America for Americans only,no Frech or Spanish colonies on our soil,or on the soil of both American continents.
This was the politics of the "BEALE ERA".

 

[bigscoop]

The Monroe Doctrine is a pretty interesting study. Depending on who you consult you'll often get a different opinion as to what actually brought it about. This is one of those areas where historians/scholars don't always agree. The only thing that is known for certain is it's nature as it is pretty straight forward in content, "This is out turf, stay the hell out!"

The politics of the era have been the most complicated area of our research, by far. Just when you think you're finally getting your head wrapped around it something comes along that simply bears an opposing direction. It's maddening, to say the least. Keeps one constantly scratching his head..... But I think it's safe to say, "A bunch of scheming crooked *******s!"

 

[Bum Luck]

I never thought this thread would lead to an area I've looked into. Check this prominent St. Louis family out:

Auguste Chouteau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bigscoop]

I never thought this thread would lead to an area I've looked into. Check this prominent St. Louis family out:

Auguste Chouteau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some truly interesting connections and possibilities start to take shape once we start focusing on the much larger picture.

 

[Old Silver]

Lol far from it here. No degree just passionate for history and a good mystery

I was referring to LL's post about satisfying historians who are in the business of tracing known events. Many times it's those "historians" who keep the truth covered up.

 

[tat2guy]

I was referring to LL's post about satisfying historians who are in the business of tracing known events. Many times it's those "historians" who keep the truth covered up.

Gotcha!!!! Me I just love the history and a good mystery

 

[Old Silver]

Gotcha!!!! Me I just love the history and a good mystery

So do I. That's the real treasure, in my opinion.

 

[lastleg]

To what purpose are you slandering "historians?" What benefit would historians have in doing that?
To ruin their reputations in publishing false date would destroy their own careers.

 

[ECS]

I never thought this thread would lead to an area I've looked into. Check this prominent St. Louis family out:

Auguste Chouteau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is related to banks creating their own currency.
1816 merchants formed the BANK OF ST LOUIS and accepted furs as collateral on loans.
1817 a second merchants bank was formed,the BANK OF MISSOURI.
In addition to Chouteau,other major St Louis businessmen at that time were:Manuel Lisa,Sylvestre Labbadie,Rufus Easton,J B C Lucas,Moses Austin,Bartholomew Berthold,and Capt George Hancock Kennerly,who was born Jan 28,1790 in Fincastle,Botetourt County,Virginia.In 1817,Nennerly and his brother James,started a mercantile business in St Louis that also provided a postal service.

 

[Old Silver]

To what purpose are you slandering "historians?" What benefit would historians have in doing that?
To ruin their reputations in publishing false date would destroy their own careers.

Well, the point is, if anyone who calls themselves historians care more about reputation than they do about true history, then why would we consider them true historians? Truth is often found by those who have no reputation to lose. There's a good reason for that.

 

[bigscoop]

You know, a couple of recent post also bring about another area of interest worth investigating. Given those rich and influential merchants in St. Louis at the time, if silver was traded for diamonds then what are the odds that one or more of these wealthy merchants played a hand in that affair, or at least knew about it?

Another area worth investigating is the trade itself as routes from St. Louis to Galveston were known at the time. This goes back to some of those previously mentioned survivor accounts about traders arriving at Galveston to trade their goods for gold, to which these same survivors also insisted that, to their knowledge, gold was never at Galveston Island.

And there's that darn Kennerly name again.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You know, a couple of recent post also bring about another area of interest worth investigating. Given those rich and influential merchants in St. Louis at the time, if silver was traded for diamonds then what are the odds that one or more of these wealthy merchants played a hand in that affair, or at least knew about it?

Another area worth investigating is the trade itself as routes from St. Louis to Galveston were known at the time. This goes back to some of those previously mentioned survivor accounts about traders arriving at Galveston to trade their goods for gold, to which these same survivors also insisted that, to their knowledge, gold was never at Galveston Island.

And there's that darn Kennerly name again.

Galveston to St. Louis via "Old Muddy", I reckon; St. Louis was aka UPPER LOUISIANA.

 

[lastleg]

OS, I read all the time on this forum people making statement such as you make. History is all
wrong, You can't believe history books cuz the Druids were here first, Or the Israelites discovered
America before the Egyptians got here, on and on ad nauseum. What can any serious researcher
do with this dribble?

Supply the evidence to make us believe your theory opposed to the written account. An historian
is only as good as the evidence he provides. Reputation among scholarly peers is invaluable to
advancement in the profession. One who distorts history will gain no reward except fleeting
notoriety and afterwards banishment as no authority wants to be involved with rumor mongers.

 

[tat2guy]

So do I. That's the real treasure, in my opinion.

Yes knowing the truth!!! Weather my friends and I find the answers or someone else, I just to know the truth. Finding gold would be awesome till the government takes it. Then you just have the history. Knowledge a true treasure.

 

[bigscoop]

OS, I read all the time on this forum people making statement such as you make. History is all
wrong, You can't believe history books cuz the Druids were here first, Or the Israelites discovered
America before the Egyptians got here, on and on ad nauseum. What can any serious researcher
do with this dribble?

Supply the evidence to make us believe your theory opposed to the written account. An historian
is only as good as the evidence he provides. Reputation among scholarly peers is invaluable to
advancement in the profession. One who distorts history will gain no reward except fleeting
notoriety and afterwards banishment as no authority wants to be involved with rumor mongers.

The problem with this is that new evidence is always surfacing, this new evidence often altering, or even changing the entire scope or course of events. When this happens it often betrays dead-fast commitments of opinions that were made prior to this new evidence. We see in these forums all the time, even in the one here, that when people are dead-fast in their opinions based on their prior knowledge and prior evidence that they can become quite defensive when confronted with new evidence to the contrary. A great deal of written history has been based on opinions and best guess scenarios based on the evidence that was available at the time, no doubt some of this even being a bit biased. Also, history was often written by the victors, the other side often never being fully heard, or even looked for. If history was as accurate as some like to believe then there would be no reason for backroom negotiations and secret meetings and missions, etc. Even today, after having documented proof that these things existed we still don't know what these secret meetings and missions and negotiations were all about, so how can we say that these effected histories are accurate? We can't, and yet many still do. Quite the paradox, indeed.

In other words, how can we claim something to be fact when those secret negotiations and secret meetings were so important that they weren't even documented? We can't.