6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

[mountainplayer]

6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Hi All,

I find myself hunting in almost a constant null in at least 3 out of 4 properties I get permission to hunt, even with sensitivity turned way down to 12-16. Thinking of buying either the 6x8 SEF or Sunray Stealth 8" coils.

Any experienced users of either coil have comments or suggestions?

Can anyone help me wrap my mind around how an elliptical coil like the SEF can perform equally against an 8" DD in target separation and ability to deal with ground mineralization?

Thanks in advance to anyone with advice to share.

MP

 

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[LI Tom]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

I have a Sunray,it's a good coil,good separation and depth.It' also light.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

What's your Ironmask setting? It would cause the detector to null even more than the sens..

Very short sweeps is the secret, not much more than the pinpoint motion when you're in heavy iron/trash. Taking full sweeps in sites like that you don't give the detector enough time to recover, and subtle blips won't stop you to investigate further. I've had an explorer a long time, and have had a smaller coil at least a half a dozen times and always sold them and stuck with my 10.5" stock. There's way more benefit to learning how to use the detector (short sweeps in iron) than changing coils. If I didn't truly believe that I would still have an 8" coil and I don't.

 

[mountainplayer]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Thanks for the replies guys.

Patch: Interesting. I like the idea of saving a couple hundred bucks.

I usually run IM at -1, and in the tough spots will often turn IM off and switch over to Ferrous sounds. Its hard on the senses after a while, though. I've never even considered tightening up my sweep. I'll have to give it a try. Is it still possible to investigate a signal and do a decent job of pinpointing, though? I mean, the short left-right sweep makes a lot of sense, but what about junk in front of or behind the target?

MP

 

[stasys]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

but what about junk in front of or behind the target?
absolutely no problem you will hear target if you use all metal -14 -15 -16. put on the ground coin ant in both ends small iron; nail or something like this sweep and try to listen, you will hear it.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Thanks for the replies guys.

Patch: Interesting. I like the idea of saving a couple hundred bucks.

I usually run IM at -1, and in the tough spots will often turn IM off and switch over to Ferrous sounds. Its hard on the senses after a while, though. I've never even considered tightening up my sweep. I'll have to give it a try. Is it still possible to investigate a signal and do a decent job of pinpointing, though? I mean, the short left-right sweep makes a lot of sense, but what about junk in front of or behind the target?

MP

Your Ironmask is at -1? If you didn't make a mistake writing that, it's WAY too high. That's actually much more discrimination than the factory setting. At this point I don't think you need another coil, or even much more adice, just drop the IM to -8 to -10 and play with that a while. I think going too much more might confuse you with too many sounds, but you should see a difference. Very short sweeps in iron is the trick to it, but I know it seems weird, so even if you really slow down your swing it will help you. The best way to describe the short sweep I am talking about is when you get a target on the surface, then lose it. What you do is use a pinpoint motion to search for it. Well that's what I do to hunt iron with the only difference being didn't lose the target, I'm just looking for one of those same type indicating blips there is something there.

PS... Considering your IM setting, and at times going into ferrous, it's obvious you are all over the board. You really need some good base settings and if you usually hunt in conductive you should stay there, otherwise you will continue to confuse yourself. Ferrous does not change the detector so there is no advantage in regards to finding more, it just changes the sounds further confusing anything you've learned. Once you really know conductive you can go into ferrous and understand it as well... but of course at that point you don't really have the need.

 

[mountainplayer]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Yes, I really do run at IM -1. You better believe I'm going to drop it on my next outing and see what happens.

I guess I've been operating under a faulty understanding of what ferrous tones do. This started when I tried turning my IM off, complete blank screen. I noticed that iron sounded that high, sweet tone that you hear with copper or silver coins. I posted a question on a forum (either this one or findmall) and someone told me that when I turned off IM that I needed to change to ferrous sounds, and that would make iron sound like iron (low grunt) and high conductors like copper/silver sound like I expected them to sound...high and sweet.

When I processed this info, I came to believe a couple of things:

IM off eliminates nulling on ferrous targets. Avoiding a null means that the detector wouldn't have to recover from null to hear a nearby high conductor. A slow sweep becomes more a matter of allowing multi-frequency scanning of a target than giving the detector time to recover from a null.

Ferrous sounds does not affect the way that high conductors or mid-conductors sound. It only causes Ferrous targets to sound like ferrous targets (low grunt).

Sounds like I'm way off base with both?

MP

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Yes, I really do run at IM -1. You better believe I'm going to drop it on my next outing and see what happens.

I guess I've been operating under a faulty understanding of what ferrous tones do. This started when I tried turning my IM off, complete blank screen. I noticed that iron sounded that high, sweet tone that you hear with copper or silver coins. I posted a question on a forum (either this one or findmall) and someone told me that when I turned off IM that I needed to change to ferrous sounds, and that would make iron sound like iron (low grunt) and high conductors like copper/silver sound like I expected them to sound...high and sweet.

When I processed this info, I came to believe a couple of things:

IM off eliminates nulling on ferrous targets. Avoiding a null means that the detector wouldn't have to recover from null to hear a nearby high conductor. A slow sweep becomes more a matter of allowing multi-frequency scanning of a target than giving the detector time to recover from a null.

Ferrous sounds does not affect the way that high conductors or mid-conductors sound. It only causes Ferrous targets to sound like ferrous targets (low grunt).

Sounds like I'm way off base with both?

MP

I can't really say much about having the IM off because I never have, and most people don't. By far the biggest mistake you are making is using too high of an Ironmask which is just a fancy term for discrimination. To compare to another unit, you probably have the thing cranked right up only to accept coins, hence the excessive nulling.

The IM setting will determine the level of nulling and I am very sure that is both for Conductive and ferrous. (I have to draw on my ferrous experience from at least 7 years ago) When you drop to -16 (zero disc.) you've seen some of the iron starts to sound way better than it should. That's why I, after several years of small adjustments, use -14 and am able to keep the high sense. I'd suggest doing something like i did, go with an IM at -8 to -10, auto sense at maybe 28. Get used to that setting with the short "wiggle" sweeps in high trash, and gradually increase the IM a notch every month or two towards -14, and at the same time once it is making good sense drop to 24 man. sense and start adjusting it up a notch or so every month. You could try jumping right to IM -14 & the sens at man 28, but you'd probably end up at the other end of the spectrum with the detector making too much noise. I didn't answer your questions direct but think the answers are in what I wrote.

PS.... Next time out your should do a factory restart and then change your settings. You want to be sure there's not some other little glitch that is affecting you, which often does happen with an explorer.

 

[mountainplayer]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Thanks, Patch. I'll give it a shot. Great tip, too, about the factory restart and fresh settings. I've noticed small changes that I know I didn't make and attributed them to ghosts in the machine.

One more question?

I have heard the term "hunt in auto sense XX" many times in the past. What does this mean? Do I set manual sense at a number, then hit the auto button? If this is right, what does it do....stay at the setting plus/minus a few points? And how do you know the sense at any given time? The numbers don't change on the screen (or do they? Is my machine faulty?).

I never hunt in auto sense, mainly because I do not understand it. And, I'm coming to realize how much else I don't understand (been using the EXII since last April).

MP

 

[neilo]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

I agree Iron mask set around 8-10. Try a coiltek joey coil it still covers 10 inches but is narrow only 5inches wide and light ideal in rubbishy areas. In some mineralised ground I have had used my explorer sensitivity setting down as low as 4 in manual to reduce the falsing. In auto the machine seems to over compensate and I prefer to use manual settings . seeya neilo

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

Thanks, Patch. I'll give it a shot. Great tip, too, about the factory restart and fresh settings. I've noticed small changes that I know I didn't make and attributed them to ghosts in the machine.

One more question?

I have heard the term "hunt in auto sense XX" many times in the past. What does this mean? Do I set manual sense at a number, then hit the auto button? If this is right, what does it do....stay at the setting plus/minus a few points? And how do you know the sense at any given time? The numbers don't change on the screen (or do they? Is my machine faulty?).

I never hunt in auto sense, mainly because I do not understand it. And, I'm coming to realize how much else I don't understand (been using the EXII since last April).

MP

You might actually be in auto.. Auto sense is indicated if there is a rotating square going around the number. If it's just the number you see, hitting the sens. button once will put it in auto, hitting it again will turn it off.

Auto sens. lets the detector run as high as possible but stay stable. The problem as you've hinted to, is that you do not know how low it is dropping when in auto.. The reason I suggested it, is because I know it perfoms very close to man. sens. and is one less thing for you to think about right now. As a test put the sense in the high 20s in your house then push the button on and off and you will see a huge difference with the detector adjusting to the interference. It's basically the same idea for heavy trash in the ground.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

I have the 6x8 SEF. Compared to the 11" DD it helps but it still nulls out a lot.

 

[John S]

Re: 6x8 SEF vs. Sunray Stealth 8" for EXII

I would go with the sunray x8. I had the 5x8 coil and didn't like it and I went with a x5 coil and it is very good.