501(c)(4) tax exempt without application

[Native Floridian]

Here is an interesting twist to the IRS controversy:

The IRS controversy is all about the IRS singling out conservative groups that have applied for tax exempt status. These groups all applied for that status under 501(c)(4), the statute in the code that allows for thier tax exempt status.

All of these groups applied as Social Welfare organizations under501(c)(4). All good except this: Under 501(c)(4) an application for tax exempt status is not required. Tax Exempt status is automatically granted. It is fulfilled via the organization's tax return with a form 990.

So just to get this straight - These organizations didn't have to apply, but they did anyway. Thousands of them!

And, those needless applications were held up by the IRS creating the controversy.

Who applies for status already granted? And why?

 

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[XLTer]

Where are you getting your info NF ?

Here is another article on the subject that may explain better . Oh , and from one of your favorite sources ......

What is a 501(c)(4), anyway?

 

[dieselram94]

NF, you keep saying wait for details before passing judgement...so why do this when the IRS has already admitted profiling...?

 

[Dave44]

Maybe this will help explain it?

Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller

"Lois Lerner, the senior IRS official at the center of the decision to target tea party groups for burdensome tax scrutiny, signed paperwork granting tax-exempt status to the Barack H. Obama Foundation, a shady charity headed by the president’s half-brother that operated illegally for years.

According to the organization’s filings, Lerner approved the foundation’s tax status within a month of filing, an unprecedented timeline that stands in stark contrast to conservative organizations that have been waiting for more than three years, in some cases, for approval."

Read more: Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller
​

 

[onfire]

I think this whole thing was hatched to put fear in anyone who wants to donate to the cause.
Also they needed to apply for insurance purposes Putting people on a bus needs insurance.
Come 2014 before the vote I hope this is taken care of.
Today the IRS union asked to be exempt from Obama care Yeeeks and they want to run it?

 

[Peyton Manning]

I think this whole thing was hatched to put fear in anyone who wants to donate to the cause.
Also they needed to apply for insurance purposes Putting people on a bus needs insurance.
Come 2014 before the vote I hope this is taken care of.
Today the IRS union asked to be exempt from Obama care Yeeeks and they want to run it?

I see you have been listening to el rushbo today

 

[bevo]

caught that call as well. El Rusbo hadn't even thought of it himself. Very plausible I might ad. I think it was just to slow o's opponents down. Dirty shytown politics either way.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I guess you plead the 5th because your totally innocent and it is all just big misunderstanding... ROFLMBO.....


Throw her in jail for contempt of congress till she starts talking....

 

[onfire]

I see you have been listening to el rushbo today

All the way to the casino

 

[onfire]

I guess you plead the 5th because your totally innocent and it is all just big misunderstanding... ROFLMBO.....


Throw her in jail for contempt of congress till she starts talking....[/QUOTE]


She's a women that shouldn't take much Or maybe she ain't

 

[bevo]

Throw her in jail.

 

[Native Floridian]

NF, you keep saying wait for details before passing judgement...so why do this when the IRS has already admitted profiling...?

I keep saying lets get the facts. Let's have an investigation. Once the facts are on the table, then we can pass judgement.

I keep telling you, that most here don't know how the IRS works. Most of you are insulted. It's not meant as an insult, it is a fact. If you doubt me, ask yourself, did you know, before i posted it, that 501(c)(4) organizations didn't have to file for tax exempt status? I'd be willing to bet most didn't. I didn't until i looked it up.

Beyond the original question in this thread which is why file for a status your organization receives automatically, is this:

How can you pass judgement on an organization you know so little about?

The key to the investgation is going to be the"Why" and the 'who" targeted these organizations. But to understand why we first have to know how the organization works. To prove abnormal treatment we first have to know what is normal treatment.

Beyond any outcome of IRS wrongdoing, is going to be a change in how these organizations are treated.

These organizations, thousands of them, filing needlessly are, if nothing else, a catalyst to an investigation. One of the outcomes will be "Why are we allowing social welfare organizations to operate as super pacs for political purposes? THis came up yesterday in congressional hearings. Sounds like being able to use these organizations for politcal purposes at any level is going to go away.

Carl Rove is probably saying - Thank you grass roots morons! Thank you for needlessly filing for a status you already had and now you've screwed the pooch!

Like i said, dealing with the IRS is about not waving any red flags under their noses. No good can come from that!

 

[Native Floridian]

About taking taking the 5th.

Most folks who find themselves under the spotlight of questioning by the justice dept,and later find themselves in jail, are not in jail for whatever crime was being investigated, but for lying to the FBI.police etc. Taking the 5th avoids this problem.

I'm not saying who is innocent and who is guilty, only that the 5th is a right, just as the 2nd is a right. It is a strategy. The party may be guilty and isn't going to help themselves get convicted, may not have perfect recall of a situation under investigation, or thay may be in a position where they aren't sure if something they did was wrong. Taking the 5th leaves open future legal strategies as well as avoids the posibility of lying under oath.

IMO, the 5th is a smart way to go for these people, thought it frustrates me. THis thing has turned into a witch hunt with several different entities looking to rack up bodies.

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as I did nothing wrong so I have nothing to hide.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Grant her total immunity regarding her involvement in this scandal in exchange for full disclosure, that negates the 5th if she still refuses to talk or commits perjury throw her in jail for contempt of court/congress

No big surprise on some defending her ...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Native Floridian]

Immunity is problematic. Depending on the type of immunity given the gov can't prosecute you for statements you made to them, but can prosecute you for evidence developed seperately. Mnay people have been caught up by this. The type of immunity that covers everything related to testimony - what most call total immunity also is full of pitfalls. One is that the immune person has to tesify honestly. IOW, no lying. OK, fair enough, but the governement decides what is truth and what is a lie. here, even faulty memory is enough to get you kicked off the immunity train. And once the govt has what it needs from a witness, they are in peril.

 

[Native Floridian]

Maybe this will help explain it?

Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller

"Lois Lerner, the senior IRS official at the center of the decision to target tea party groups for burdensome tax scrutiny, signed paperwork granting tax-exempt status to the Barack H. Obama Foundation, a shady charity headed by the president’s half-brother that operated illegally for years.

According to the organization’s filings, Lerner approved the foundation’s tax status within a month of filing, an unprecedented timeline that stands in stark contrast to conservative organizations that have been waiting for more than three years, in some cases, for approval."

Read more: Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller
​

There is a minor problem with this:

The Barack H Obama Foundation is a 501(C)(3) and the organizations in question are 501(C)(4). Apples and oranges.

It's that pesky not knowing how the IRS works thing again. Any comments that say this charity was given preferential treatment over conservative groups would be wrong. In that the types of organizations, application process, tax and contribution rules for each type are completely different. And, no doubt handled by different areas of the IRS. Again one set of groups, (c)(3) are charities. The other, (c)(4), are social organizations.

it could be said that as a charitble organization, this group was given special handling. Would you expect any less for the prez or high ranking gov't official?

Mostly, this is another misfire from the right. Just like the inaccurate reporting of the Whitehouse Bengazi emails. Which has turned out to be no more than a right wing smear campaign. ( though A+ for FOX news manning up and admitting it was wrong)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

"Special Handling" as in anything that can hinder grassroots efforts to build voter base against sitting president and the end of a fair and honest election.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[dieselram94]

Immunity is problematic. Depending on the type of immunity given the gov can't prosecute you for statements you made to them, but can prosecute you for evidence developed seperately. Mnay people have been caught up by this. The type of immunity that covers everything related to testimony - what most call total immunity also is full of pitfalls. One is that the immune person has to tesify honestly. IOW, no lying. OK, fair enough, but the governement decides what is truth and what is a lie. here, even faulty memory is enough to get you kicked off the immunity train. And once the govt has what it needs from a witness, they are in peril.

In this post you imply the govt is not to be trusted. So why do you blindly trust the govt all other times

Sent from my SCH-R930 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Native Floridian]

TH, the problem here is that the groups didn't have to apply for tax exempt status. They already had it. it was given to them automatically. There was no hindering. These groups were free to go about their business as usual. Because they didn't need approval from the IRS there was nothing in the way. They could conduct business , fund raise, do whatever they wanted to do.

If the voter base wasn't built it was for another reason. Maybe they just weren't good at organizing?

 

[Native Floridian]

In this post you imply the govt is not to be trusted. So why do you blindly trust the govt all other times

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d Ram, Trust the government? That would be crazy! Where do you get that?

I think you're reading my posts of advocating fairness as I'm completely down with the government and obama. I'm not. Unlike some here and elsewhere I'm not looking for Obama's hide on a long sharp stick. I want only the truth. To those who have made up their minds my POV makes me look like I'm totally in the tank for the government.

Trust me, I'm from the government and i'm here to help you. LOL!!!!!!!