500 Million shipwreck found in the Atlantic???

[jeff k]

Tom... I posted the following on the HH site awhile back in response to their nonsense about Odyssey not releasing documents.

There is no need – nor do they have any responsibility to share their research. They have never said they would. It’s not Odyssey’s responsibility to provide data which they have spent huge sums gathering to potential competitors – or even media outlets…everything is public, residing in libraries or institutions somewhere. Solomon or anyone else can go look it up themselves if they want to spend millions of dollars on research.

Investors don’t have to buy stock in Odyssey. They do it of their own free will. Read Odyssey’s actual statements – not the drivel reported in the media. They are very explicit in explaining that research could be wrong, there could be government or legal problems – and investors might lose all their money, There are no guarantees in this business – or any other business for that reason. Every publicly quoted company makes predictions about what may happen – or not happen. They don’t have to provide their own internal company data supporting those assumptions, If you don’t trust them, don’t buy their stock.

Odyssey didn’t share their research on the Republic before they found it, and they ended up doing quite well from the project. The company never suggested that they ever intend to share their research with the public on shipwrecks – in fact they are explicit in stating that they are primarily working on projects for which they might not share any information until after the fact…nothing may be released until a recovery is made – does everyone feel fine with that? You certainly can’t accuse them of misrepresenting any information then, can you?

 

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[wreckdiver1715]

And you can't accuse them of disappointing the investors on Friday

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Peeps: I am bit curious, where am I way off?

Looking at the square buckets I can only estimate crudely their capacity by referring to the gentleman's forearm. I am assuming that it is approx. 15 inches long, hence to err on the good side, the square buckets would be over 12 inches wide. I am estimating only 10 inches square by 12 high, @ perhaps 75% loading density because of the coin's shape..

10 10 x 12 = 1200 cu inches?

i cu ft = 1728 cu inches. Silver at 100% = 653# per cu ft. @ 800 fine = 522 # per cu ft
or .30 # per cu inch.

1200 cu inches @ .30# = 362.lbs no??

why are the the containers labeled #30 or 18 kilos?

I would like to see someone pick up a bucket wighing 362 +- pounds or even 1/2 of that weight. Would the bucket even sustain a loading of 1/4 of that??

Is there a bit of psychological hanky panky going on? I am all for their winning the jack pot since i am in the same approx. boat, but ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Skimmer]

Real De : Hmmm... I've got a couple questions too...
But these things are all kinda "behind the scenes"
until way after the hoo-hah dies down, right? I'm
looking at photo's of (granted, not close-ups) well preserved, presumably silver coins, which does not happen OVERNIGHT. This is a LONG process. Are we to believe these are recent recoveries that have been in a saline environment until just recently??
After give or take 400 years? Hmmmm. And the weight factor alone in the plastic 5 gallon bucket....
You're right, NO WAY. I tried a half full of dive weights 5 gallon bucket, and it was ready to split with ANY manipulation...in fact the handle pulled off right away with a test lift (half full of lead) . Man, if this is really a find that has been presented to the public, and is real, Holy Cow!! They've got a real
historic bonanza! I hope it all comes out well in the wash, we'll all be better off for it. (AND I'mreally jealous!!) But, good luck to 'em all! Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI An Englsh gals remarks on the OM find, , which are not historically correct about
WW-2.
*************
If found off the british coast then the treasure belongs to Britain. America took all our gold reserves and made us pay for the entire second world war (we have just finished paying them back for the interest charged on loans to fight the Nazis. Germany was rebuilt free of charge and France never paid a bean for our freeing them) can you imagine them letting us walk of with that sum if it was found off the coast of America!?

- Gina, Stevenage

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another UK subject wrote

"sour grapes? the Americans put up the money, took their risks, etc and won. Congratulations"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Peg Leg]

HI An Englsh gals remarks on the OM find, , which are not historically correct about
WW-2.
*************
If found off the british coast then the treasure belongs to Britain. America took all our gold reserves and made us pay for the entire second world war (we have just finished paying them back for the interest charged on loans to fight the Nazis. Germany was rebuilt free of charge and France never paid a bean for our freeing them) can you imagine them letting us walk of with that sum if it was found off the coast of America!?

- Gina, Stevenage
I dislike France but they DID pay off their WAR DEBT.

ALSO IF YOU WILL LOOK THE #30 ON THE CONTAINER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS IS THE NUMBER OF THE CONTAINER AND NOT THE WEIGHT. THE WEIGHT IS IN KILOGRAMS. IF YOU WILL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK YOU WILL SEE THAT EACH CONTAINER HAS A DIFFERENT Kg WEIGHT ALONG WITH A CONTAINER NUMBER.
DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
THERE IS A BUNCH OF SILVER THERE.
PEG LEG
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another UK subject wrote

"sour grapes? the Americans put up the money, took their risks, etc and won. Congratulations"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Peg Leg]

lETS DO A LITTLE MATH:
18KG = 18000 GRAMS ./. 31.1035 GRAMS =578.713 T.O. ./. 12 T.O. POUNDS = 48 T. POUNDS.
This means that the container being shown has 578.713 coins. You can go even further and calculate the thickness but the answer will be the same.
The coins being shown appear to be REALE 8 size which I will asume are 1 t.o. each. They also appear to be Machine made/stamped so the weight will be uniform.
Just thought this might make things a little eaiser to figure out.
Peg Leg

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI pegger, leaving MO out of it, just bugging you hhehe.

What are they using to fill the bucket up with? It certainly isn't coins or they would weigh at least # 522 , not the 18 kilos written on the side. 8 Reales contain 20 grams of Ag, plus added other metals, final weight = approx. 1 oz, or 31.1 grams. In "Crude" round no. they would need 6264 coins to fill a bucket. sheehs

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Amona]

If you know to read spanish and understand it very well read this article about the Odyssey and the $500M shipwreck treasure.

http://www.negocios.com/gaceta/articleview/64253/


Noticia 47 con fecha: 19-05-2007
Odyssey envió un gran tesoro desde Gibraltar a Nueva York
Odyssey Marine Exploration mantiene el secreto del lugar donde encontró el tesoro

EFE/P.SARMIENTO./M.GUTIÉRREZ/MIAMI/GIBRALTAR/ALGECIRAS
Unas 17 toneladas de monedas de plata y oro, valoradas en 370 millones de euros, han sido extraídas por buceadores "cazatesoros" de Florida (EEUU), en lo que puede ser el más rico resto arqueológico submarino descubierto hasta ahora.
Los cazatesoros, si bien no revelaron por razones de seguridad la zona del océano Atlántico donde encontraron el pecio, señalaron ayer que las piezas se extrajeron de los restos de un barco hundido en esas aguas, según documentos oficiales.
La compañía de exploración marina Odyssey Marine Exploration, con sede en Tampa, en la costa oeste de Florida, informó de que recientemente trajeron a EEUU contenedores con las monedas extraídas del fondo del mar: un total de 500.000 piezas que esperan alcancen en el mercado un precio de 740 euros cada una. El tesoro fue embarcado en un avión Boeing 757 de North American Lines en Gibraltar y fue enviado directamente desde el Peñón al aeropuerto John Fitzgerald Kennedy de Nueva York.
La compañía declinó revelar más detalles sobre este pecio incomparable que insinuaron podría proceder de los restos de un barco hundido en algún punto próximo a las costas de Gran Bretaña hace 400 años.
Al encontrarse los restos arqueológicos en una zona donde muchos barcos de la era colonial se hundieron, no hay todavía certeza sobre la nacionalidad del buque, tamaño y antigüedad, informó la compañía de exploradores.
Odyssey añadió que la zona exacta donde están localizados los restos del barco se halla más allá de las aguas territoriales y de la jurisdicción de cualquier nación.
La compañía no informó de si el pecio fue extraído de los mismos restos del galeón del siglo XVII que encontraron recientemente a unos 65 kilómetros al sudoeste de Gran Bretaña.
Amparándose en la naturaleza secreta del proyecto denominado Cisne negro, la compañía Odyssey tampoco quiso revelar el tipo de monedas rescatadas ni el país de origen del que proceden.
Las monedas extraídas, la mayor parte fabricadas en plata, podrían valer desde cientos a miles de euros cada pieza, dependiendo de su rareza y estado.
Hasta la fecha, el mayor tesoro encontrado corresponde al que se extrajo en 1985 de un galeón español del siglo XVII.
Por su parte, el candidato andalucista a la Alcaldía de San Roque, Manuel Melero, informó ayer de que según una fuente que quiere permanecer anónima por motivos profesionales y que no va a revelar, “posiblemente Odyssey está trasladando restos y metales preciosos a Marruecos”, desde donde sería más sencillo enviarlos de forma secreta a Estados Unidos. De hecho, Melero ha remitido un escrito al Ministerio de Defensa español con el objeto de que aclare si el buque de salvamento y rescate Neptuno, de la Armada española, “tiene alguna información, ya que sus labores de investigación y vigilancia se desarrollan en el Estrecho”. El Partido Andalucista preguntará en el Parlamento Andaluz, según explicó Manuel Melero, que “si no tienen permiso, cómo es que llevan operando en nuestras aguas desde 1999, sin que se haya hecho nada para impedirlo”.
Melero además, explicó que el buque HMS Sussex salió de Inglaterra en 1693 y que el 18 de febrero de 1694 zarpó de Gibraltar, antes de hundirse en aguas de la Bahía durante una fuerte tormenta. Sin embargo, “el barco paró antes en Cádiz, una parada algo extraña. Creemos que lo más seguro es que el oro y la plata fueran cargados en el Puerto de Cádiz, o sea, que serían españoles”.
El candidato andalucista recordó que Odyssey lleva operando en la Bahía desde 1999 y que en 2001 recibió autorización del Ministerio de Cultura, “aunque no es competente, puesto que las competencias en la materia las tiene la Junta de Andalucía desde 1985. Posteriormente la Guardia Civil los expulsó por engaños sobre el permiso, ya que decían que buscaban el pecio del Cambridge, cuando trabajaban sobre el Sussex en realidad”. Según el andalucista, ahora el contrato que tienen con Reino Unido los estadounidenses es que Odyssey se quedaría con un 80% si lo que recuperan es menor a 40 millones de euros -el resto sería siempre para Londres-, un 50% para tesoros recuperados con valor entre 40 y 465 millones de euros, y un 40% si lo recuperado supera los 465 millones de euros.
Melero denunció el 18 de enero de 2006 ante la Guardia Civil de San Roque las actividades de Odyssey, y sólo un día más tarde el Odyssey Explorer abandonaba la zona. “Ahora está operando desde diciembre. Lo hemos comprobado vía satélite. El Odyssey Explorer no está donde siempre, sino en el Puerto de Gibraltar, al abrigo del MOD, protegido por el Ministerio de Defensa británico. No está a 5,5 millas náuticas de Gibraltar. Mientras tanto, el Ocean Alert, se encuentra a unas veinte millas, a la altura de Estepona”, concluyó Manuel Melero.


I'm sorry, but that news coming from spain

Amona


Note
Hey Odyssey, get a lawyer, I'll see you on court

 

[wreckdiver1715]

I think I will let Gregg Stemm answer these questions.

Odyssey Marine Exploration (OMR) Provides Update and Answers Questions on "Black Swan'' Shipwreck

Since the announcement by Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (AMEX: OMR) of the recovery of over 500,000 coins from the shipwreck code-named "Black Swan", intense international media coverage has led to many questions that the Company would like to address.

1. It has been widely reported that this shipwreck could be worth up to $500 million. What is the Company's position on this? A: The Company has not estimated the total potential value of the shipwreck, other than to estimate on a preliminary basis a wide range of potential retail prices based on the coins that have been conserved to date.

2. There have been reports that the "Black Swan" is a number of different shipwrecks, including HMS Sussex and the Merchant Royal. Are any of these reports correct? A: We can confirm that the "Black Swan" is not HMS Sussex, and that the "Black Swan" was not found in waters anywhere near the shipwreck believed to be HMS Sussex. Beyond that, we cannot confirm the identity of the shipwreck because we are not certain ourselves.

3. It has been reported that the Spanish Government is engaging in a "probe" of Odyssey because it is "suspicious" that we have not publicized more information about the shipwreck. Is this true? A: We have no knowledge of any such inquiry, and would expect that we would have been the first ones contacted if there was one. In our experience with the Spanish Government, with whom we have had a very cordial relationship for many years, we would have been informed directly or through the US or UK embassy of any outstanding issues relating to Odyssey's operations.

4. What about the claim that the Spanish Government has now asked the "Guardia Civil" marine patrol to monitor Odyssey's activities? A: The Spanish Guardia Civil has always monitored Odyssey's ships in Spanish Territorial waters. When operating in or near Spanish Territorial waters, we report our operational plans and movements to the Guardia Civil marine patrol before we send our ships to sea.

5. What happens, if you finally determine the identity of the "Black Swan" and establish that the UK, Spain, any other country or even individuals may have rights to the shipwreck? A: If we are able to confirm that some other entity has a legitimate legal claim to this shipwreck when - and if - the identity is confirmed, we intend to provide legal notice to any and all potential claimants. Even if another entity is able to prove that it has an ownership interest in the shipwreck and/or cargo and that they had not legally abandoned the shipwreck, Odyssey would apply for a salvage award from the Admiralty Court. In cases such as this, salvors are typically awarded up to 90% of the recovery. We do believe that most shipwrecks that we recover, including the "Black Swan", will likely result in claims by other parties....

8. There have been reports of a partnership between Odyssey Marine Exploration and the Disney organization. Are these true? A: We can confirm that Odyssey and the Disney (NYSE: DIS) organization have recently entered into a relationship on a number of projects, and that the two companies are in discussions relative to some new partnership opportunities.

 

[Amona]

wreckdiver1715

If I get permission from the Federal government to recover treasure in waters where the fleet of 1715 is located( wabasso beach,cabin,etc),..do you think that state of Florida,local government,Mel fisher, etc would be agree?

you know the answer,...."NO"

Exactly that is happening in Spain. According with the Rumors or the investigation made for some resource there in Spain, Odyssey got a Spain's central government permission but never they did with the Andalucia providence government. Odyssey were monitored and watched for sattellite during the past winter time by the main Spain government. Odyssey were working in Gibraltar area where there is two shipwreck claimed by others party in Spain by Spaniard before Odyssey were on those waters and the providence of Andalucia has power and control on those waters.

Also there is rumors that Odyssey arrested the shipwreck located in Spain( HMS Sussex ), took it to the Atlantic water and then, they claim publicly that they found the $500M gold coins in the Atlantic waters.If that it is true,...it was a "dirty game",...why? because there is not way to probe it.

we cannot confirm the identity of the shipwreck because we are not certain ourselves.

The coins found could tell you to what vessels were carried.

It has been reported that the Spanish Government is engaging in a "probe" of Odyssey because it is "suspicious" that we have not publicized more information about the shipwreck. Is this true?

That's the true

The Spanish Guardia Civil has always monitored Odyssey's ships in Spanish Territorial waters. When operating in or near Spanish Territorial waters, we report our operational plans and movements to the Guardia Civil marine patrol before we send our ships to sea

.

If you did, why you claim had found the treasure in the Atlantic waters? What the Odyssey was doing in Spanish water during the winter of 2006-07?

Odyssey would apply for a salvage award from the Admiralty Court. In cases such as this, salvors are typically awarded up to 90% of the recovery. We do believe that most shipwrecks that we recover, including the "Black Swan", will likely result in claims by other parties

I hope you say the true because there is legitimate rights by third party there in Spain before you star to work in Spanish waters.

We can confirm

It is better you or Odyssey show to the public the kind a coins were found (English coins, Escudo, doubloons,or simple penny) like Mel Fisher did when they found the Atocha in 1985.

Regard
Amona

 

[mad4wrecks]

I am just amazed how bent out of shape people get when someone succeeds.

The US government, the Spanish govt or any other govt for that matter could equip themselves of the same technology that Odyssey uses and find and recover these shipwrecks themselves. I guess it is much easier to wait until someone else finds a wreck (or worse, give permisssion for someone to find it first), then try to take it away when it's found.

99.999% of the planet doesn't give a crap about these buried wrecks, what with all the other problem facing the world, famine, poverty, war, global warming, immorality, until a spectaular recovery is made. Then the cockroaches come scurrying out of the woodwork.

I think if you lost something, 300 years is more than an adequate enough time to find it. If not, "loser's weepers."

 

[Amona]

There is a guy in Spain that have the right over the H.M.S Sussex, not you Odyssey.

Hey Odyssey, How the Spanish Government granted you permission to Salvage on those waters when this guy got the right before than you? or was you doing a kinda "Guesswork" on waters of Gibraltar?

http://shipwreck.net/pr130.html
http://shipwreck.net/official_mfa_release.pdf
http://www.europapress.es/noticia.aspx?cod=20070521192954&ch=69

Odyssey said: (http://shipwreck.net/pr134.html)

"The Company is not prepared to disclose the possible identity of the shipwreck at this time, and may only do so after thoroughly examining the artifacts, analyzing the research and proving the identity, if possible, of the shipwreck"

Guestwork?

 

[Darren in NC]

Congratulations, Odyssey!

 

[Amona]

Congratulations all illegal immigrant that cross the border!! you come for the American dream!!

 

[Peg Leg]

I for one do not believe these are Spanish coins.
On a closer look one coin appears to have an 8 pointed star with a round space in the middle. That is all I am able to see but it is NOT spanish.
You coin experts could tell everyone what you think this coin is and where it came from.
Peg Leg
AMONA,
I read a touch of ANTI-AMERICAN.

 

[cephalopoder]

I am just amazed how bent out of shape people get when someone succeeds.

The US government, the Spanish govt or any other govt for that matter could equip themselves of the same technology that Odyssey uses and find and recover these shipwrecks themselves. I guess it is much easier to wait until someone else finds a wreck (or worse, give permisssion for someone to find it first), then try to take it away when it's found.

99.999% of the planet doesn't give a crap about these buried wrecks, what with all the other problem facing the world, famine, poverty, war, global warming, immorality, until a spectaular recovery is made. Then the cockroaches come scurrying out of the woodwork.

I think if you lost something, 300 years is more than an adequate enough time to find it. If not, "loser's weepers."

I could not agree more! You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Lafitte]

Hello Amona,
If you have concerns about Odssey's discovery, you should probably contact them. Alot can be misunderstood when posting to an internet forum.

 

[Amona]

If you have concerns about Odssey's discovery, you should probably contact them. Alot can be misunderstood when posting to an internet forum

I don't have concern with Odyssey in any form. I hope Odyssey be right in everything had done in Spain but if you going to work in a Foreigner country, whatever you do, just do it right, clear and clean. Spain has more rich shipwreck sank in theirs water than whole EU.

Right now Spain is submitting an investigation about this issue of the $500M coins, HMS sussex and the Black Swan because everything that happened there during past winter wasn't properly worked according with the Spain's law.

If you like to keep saying "congratulation Odyssey" just do it. I would wait until the end

Again, I hope Odyssey is right whatever they did.

Amona

 

[Amona]

Congratulations all illegal immigrant that cross the border!! you come for the American dream!!

Nothing serious with this statement, I was kidding

Peg leg

I for one do not believe these are Spanish coins.
On a closer look one coin appears to have an 8 pointed star with a round space in the middle. That is all I am able to see but it is NOT Spanish.
You coin experts could tell everyone what you think this coin is and where it came from.
Peg Leg
AMONA,

Spanish coins or English coin, that it isn't the issue, it is "where" the coins and the rest of the treasure were found and the way they were recovered.Like I said, I would wait until the end.

I read a touch of ANTI-AMERICAN.

By the way, this is a forum of treasure hunting, not patriotism,..OK?