4K Coin Program Advice

[secondstar]

Good evening, my friends and I hunt a spot that routinely produces colonial coppers, Spanish silver, and large cents. We don't find any coins that are newer than fatty IHP's (nice problem to have) so my thought was that I might run a 4K coin program as it is my understanding that running the XP Deus at 4K can be extremely effective for finding large, highly conductive coins. There isn't a ton of iron, so I thought that I might try the following program to find the deep, left over coins that we might have missed.

ID Norm = Off

DISC 10

5 Tones
120 Hz
400 Hz (10-57)
600 Hz (58-74)
800 Hz (75-93)
120 Hz (94-99)

Sensitivity 90
TX Power 3 / NA
Frequency 4K
Iron Vol 1
Reactivity 1
Silencer 0
Audio Resp 4
Notch 00-00

Ground Manual (90)

I have read up on the potential consequences of notching high TDI's so I have chosen to use a tone to identify iron wrap around which will allow me to decide whether or not to dig. I also might be able to get away with a sensitivity of 92 but won't know until I get out into the field. Please let me know what you think, thanks!

Mike

 

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[vferrari]

Yes, that program will take the Deus about as deep as you can get it on high conductive targets like the ones you mentioned provided that site conditions cooperate. Specifically: (1) EMI is low enough to allow you to run stable at sensitivity at 90 to 92 (depth performance plateaus at about 92/93 sensitivity. Above that you get minimal if any additional depth but start generating a lot of sensitivity to EMI so if you can run it at 92 that is great, but I wouldn't try to push it much higher) and (2) ground mineralization is low enough to allow you to operate at TX power of 3 (which is locked at 3 for 4 k for the legacy LF coil). If you get the mineralization bar graph on the right side of the display to peak out higher than 1/4 scale when you pump the coil, I would use the next lowest frequency (8khz) at TX 2 (or TX 1 if mineralization is very high) because the mineralization tends to scatter the transmit signal at higher transmit powers.

Some additional thoughts on iron wraparound - as you know I am not a fan of notching iron wraparound TIDs - 97-99, so I am OK with trying to make it sound different than the typical high conductor TID tones. I don't necessarily agree that you should make it sound like iron and I will tell you my reasons in a second. First, let me say that if you are operating at 4k, then something showing up in the 97-99 range will most likely be iron wraparound vs. a true high conductor or up-averaged non ferrous target. That likelihood goes down if you use the higher frequencies (or ID NORM ON - which pushes the TIDs higher in the range towards 99). Though it is still possible for some deep up-averaged targets to show up there (I encountered that this weekend and the TID went down when I started target recovery, but I was also operating at 12 and 25 khz with the X35 coil). In my opinion, the best thing to do is to make 97-99 sound different than ANY of your other 4 tones. That way you can clearly hear that you are in the very high TID range. If you make it sound like iron, it will be difficult to tell without glancing at your display and even then, you may be in pinging on a deep target that will give you the iron low tone but NO TID (just double dashes - - on the TID display). In that case you will be reliant on trying to ascertain whether that low tone is actually deep iron or iron wraparound by interpreting the horseshoe ferrous/non-ferrous/depth display. By making wraparound a very high tone (say 993 hz) then it will be more obvious, audibly that you are in the wraparound region in the event that you do not get a TID and the horseshoe display is giving you an ambiguous "deep target" indicator "sliver" that is straddling the ferrous/non-ferrous dividing line. At that point you can "interrogate" the suspected wraparound target further by hitting it with a higher frequency version of your base program (I do this by setting up a clone of the base program with all the same settings (except the tone breaks need to be adjusted if using 4 or 5-tone) but with a different frequency to I can just hit the +/- key to see how the suspected target responds). Just a thought.

If you are encountering a lot of iron targets at the site or in a particular area indicating a possible structure foundation, consider using a sifting program that simply consists of taking your base program and lowering sensitivity into the low 80's to minimize iron from "overwhelming" the detector and increasing reactivity to 2 or 2.5 to increase the ability of the Deus to separate shallower non-ferrous masked targets from ferrous "maskers" (I also personally like to use pitch versus tones when sifting and when detecting at normal sensitivity settings but that is a personal preference). It takes some discipline to commit to lowering sensitivity to sift through the iron to unmask non-ferrous keepers because it runs counter to our engrained, typical depth trumps all approach to detecting. But it DOES work if you commit to it and you would be surprised at what pops out of the ground when you do this at a "hunted out" site.

Happy hunting at what sounds like a fun site to hunt.

 

[secondstar]

Thanks for your response vferrari. I like the idea of using 993 Hz to identify potential iron wrap around. I have an 8K version of my base 12K program that works very well for me in my neck of the woods and often time will toggle between the two in order to help me identify high TDI's as either being iron (typical) or a large silver coin. I copied Gary's sifter program a while back and may end up trying this program out. I do prefer to create my own programs based upon my knowledge of my area, but am still learning this machine so i don't want to make a mistake that could result in me walking over the find of a lifetime.

Mike

 

[HuntinDog]

What VF said...
I might also bump my Audio up to 5 or 6 to help hear those silent squeakers.

 

[austin_luker]

I would run my first pass with 0 disc sens at 95 and (x35) Boosted reactivity at 1 and 4khz
second pass 0 disc sens 93 TX 3 7khz reactivity at 2.5

 

[vferrari]

Regarding discrimination. Several schools of thought. I like to hear the iron but I also like the advantages that dialing in some level of disc provides including: mitigation of non-ferrous target down-averaging in the vicinity of iron and more stable/reliable operation of the horseshoe display. With iron volume there really is no down side to dialing in disc up to 10 (no depth loss) and some members here swear that dialing disc up higher is not detrimental to depth. I have run some limited in-ground testing that indicates tests that even relatively high levels of disc (up to 40 or 50) does not severely restrict detection depth. YMMV. I don't personally recommend going much higher than 10.

Therefore, my rules of thumb on discrimination are as follows:

When running full tones, I set disc to 0 or less so that I can hear the iron tones as iron volume does not work in full tones. I just take the risk that some partially masked non-ferrous targets will get down averaged and sound like iron. I use this as a "change of pace search mode especially at sites with minimal iron thst contain a wide variety of targets from mid to high conductors (e.g., relics to old silver). I will typically run this at 12 -13 khz. Rx setting depends on the junk density.

My favorite button searching mode uses Pitch and disc at 10 and I RT on volume at 3 and it is especially effective in thick iron. I will typically run the X35 at 25 khz or the HF at 28 khz.

My favorite coin shooting program is 5-tone, disc 10 at 8 or 12 khz and I will sometimes bump it down to 4 khz if the EMI and ground mineralization cooperate.

 

[Jeff H]

When looking for deep coins in 4kHz, you need all the Sensitivity you can get. In my part of MA, soil is very mild and EMI not an issue. I routinely run at TX3 and Sens at 95. But like V says, if it isn't stable, lower your Sens a bit. But I actually think you might do better on those deep coins with 8 kHz. I've never noticed much depth gain between 4 and 8 kHz. It just seems to me that I can lower the GB and crank up TX and Sens more in 8 kHz than I can in 4 kHz. Hot rocks and ground feed back seem to be more of an issue when I max things out in 4 kHz. Don't hesitate to try a Reactivity of "0" in clean and mild ground....If you get a good deep target with R=1, knock it down to "0" and see how much better it sounds.


Regarding Tones, I like V's approach to iron wrap around. If your goal is deep targets, you likely don't need 5 Tones. 3 Tones usually suits me because if it is deep, and it isn't iron, it is coming out of the ground....Even if it is iron, it still might be coming out of the ground.

 

[secondstar]

Thanks Jeff H, I actually have a base program with both an 8K and a 12K version. They have worked really well for me, but my thought was that I might try a 4K program when hunting this particular location as the coins that we find are large in size. The other “program” that I use is a Minelab Equinox 600, J/K ;-)

In all seriousness, my overall strategy is to work a spot really well with the XP Deus, and then work the spot equally as well with the Equinox. These two machines seem to compliment each other nicely. Great point with regards to using 3 tones when running a deep program, believe you me; if it’s deep, and isn’t iron, I dig! Have a great night, I hope that you can squeeze in a hunt in between the storms that we are supposed to get this weekend!

Mike

 

[Jeff H]

I like your plan of attack Mike. You have to hit a site using several different approaches. My other thought regarding 4kHz on really deep coins is that those coins, even LCs and KGs etc., don't always offer up much of a profile. It seems to me that the higher frequencies will pick up better on those smaller looking targets. It may not be a small target but at depth it can look like a small target. With my old DFX I used to hunt a lot in 3 kHz and dug a lot of deep coppers. When I switched to 15 kHz, I dug more deep coppers at places I pounded with the 3 kHz. The Deus is doing the same.

I did squeeze in a quick hour and a half hunt yesterday. Dug up a big copper bridle rosette. I know I had gone over that target many times in the past because it would blast my ear drums. The reason I dug it this time? I had just come from the edge of the cellar hole and mistakenly still had the machine at 28 kHz and R=3. It made that big saddle boss sound like a small good target instead of a big screaming piece of shallow junk.

Yeah this weekend is a total washout! Happy hunting!

 

[Calabash Digger]

I dig iron loaded sites ….iron wrap around problem doesn't exist really for me. WHY? I learned the machine WITHOUT high end notch or messing with the higher end tones. The Deus will give clues as to whether its big iron OR NOT. I dig 100 or more targets normally on a good day relic hunting and might have 3 to 5 pieces of iron. What im trying to say is iron aint no big deal.

BENEFIT I never have to worry about passing up or missing deep non ferrous targets...… I show test videos where messing with notch or tones at the high end can call deep silver iron.

Advice dig without the notch or high end tone changes and after 100 or so pieces of iron you will be able to tell whats up. It might not take you that many...

 

[sleepyjim]

vferrari on these: "My favorite button searching mode uses Pitch and disc at 10 and I RT on volume at 3 and it is especially effective in thick iron. I will typically run the X35 at 25 khz or the HF at 28 khz.

My favorite coin shooting program is 5-tone, disc 10 at 8 or 12 khz and I will sometimes bump it down to 4 khz if the EMI and ground mineralization cooperate."

Let me ask, on the button one what is I RT? is it some newfangled x35 talk? LOL

On the coin one what program did you start with, fast?

Thanks

Jim

 

[vferrari]

vferrari on these: "My favorite button searching mode uses Pitch and disc at 10 and I RT on volume at 3 and it is especially effective in thick iron. I will typically run the X35 at 25 khz or the HF at 28 khz.

My favorite coin shooting program is 5-tone, disc 10 at 8 or 12 khz and I will sometimes bump it down to 4 khz if the EMI and ground mineralization cooperate."

Let me ask, on the button one what is I RT? is it some newfangled x35 talk? LOL

On the coin one what program did you start with, fast?

Thanks

Jim

Jim,

Yep, makes no sense because that's a typo. Should read, "My favorite button searching mode uses Pitch and disc at 10 and Iron volume at 3 and it is especially effective in thick iron. I will typically run the X35 at 25 khz or the HF at 28 khz. My favorite coin shooting program is 5-tone, disc 10 at 8 or 12 khz and I will sometimes bump it down to 4 khz if the EMI and ground mineralization cooperate."

Good catch. Thanks.

 

[basstrackerman]

All amazing advice. I did have that one situation that kinda made me wonder.. I few weeks back in an old school field I was using my deus with 11" x35 coil running 98-99 sensitivity, 4kHz and no boost in deep mode reactivity 2 came across this deep sounding target reading a tiny speck on horse shoe and ID of a solid 99... I had been changing frequencies on some of these targets to try and guess what may be down there like running 25kHz and hearing same thing , the whisper target as I lower frequency if target goes away most was small tiny aluminum.. well this deep target was almost gone at 7kHz and completely disappeared at 11.. it was solid all the way around in 4kHz so I dug it... My buddy was with me watching and down to the 10" mark my pinpointer picked it up.. at about the 12" mark out popped and beautiful green coin . 1864 2 cent piece.. now I believe that is the rare occasion that the ground noise and emi was not there and allowed me to find it.. I've hit this school yard for so many years with all of my buddies and the stars aligned just right for the find. Most situations will not allow 4 kHz run that high of sensitivity.. you don't know what you don't find. There for you do not miss it. .

 

[secondstar]

Gotta love those 2 cent pieces basstrackerman! Let me ask you something; what tones were you running? If for example, you were running 5 tones do you assign a tone for iron wrap around or do you leave the upper 90's alone?

 

[basstrackerman]

I run 5 tones mostly and I never change the 98-99 numbers to iron tone. My 2 center was a solid 99. I run the 5th tone to 99.

 

[secondstar]

Thank you for your input basstrackerman, I can't get my machine to up average a deep target in my test garden, but then again it's nearly impossible to test for all soil conditions. I use 5 tones, but use the 5th tone to "scream" at me in 993hz for TID's between 97-99. I am thinking that I'll move to a 4 tone program and use my ear to scrutinize high TID's as I do not want to walk away from the potential (deep) find of a lifetime.

Mike