4 Shipwreck Sites Found off Cape Canaveral

[AUVnav]

Seems like it would be difficult to prove that is was not a Spanish vessel, and not owned by the Spanish Government.

SMCA is but one act or set of rules, there are many others. Look at most of the arrests that Odyssey has had taken away due to sovereign ownership claims, specifically the Mercedes, Laconia, and Cairn Hill, all under Law of Salvage/Law of Finds.
Laconia, Cairn Hill arrests were vacated due to intervention by the Brits as sovereign British, even though they were privately owned cargo vessels, the Brits paid off the insurance claims and assumed ownership, sovereign ownership.

 

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[Peyton Manning]

did any old ship ever make it to it's port? Seems like they all sank

 

[Black Duck]

AUV
Once again the burden of proof is on the person saying what it is, AUV you should not make statement that are not true

 

[AUVnav]

AUV you should not make statement that are not true

such as?

 

[Black Duck]

AUV thank you for being cordial, you made this statement,
Seems like it would be difficult to prove that is was not a Spanish vessel, and not owned by the Spanish Government.

Were I would agree that if it is a military ship, that Country owns it and has the say in what happens to it.

But again the burden of proof is on the person whom says what it is. and at the Cape Canaveral in GME's case this may never happen, if you really understand shipwrecks and maybe you do, you should know that the records back that far just do not exist, not in the detail you would need to prove something beyond a shadow of doubt. Of-course we want to prove what these ships are but only if it is fact and we have 100 % proof

GME will respect the State of Florida the Dominican Republic, Spain, France, England, Holland and any other country with respect to this issue.

GME is here discover history and document the facts.

Thanks for the listen
gmexploration.com

 

[AUVnav]

I make that statement, because as logic dictates, virtually all vessels, especially a group of 4, would likely have been Spanish. Either owned by the Spanish government, or in the service of the Spanish government. While the common claim of sovereignty is stuck solely on military applications, case law does not support this narrow definition. As shown by the wrecks administrated through the UK DfT, these commercial vessels are considered sovereign. The UK govt paid off insurance claims and is now the legal owner. Claims of sovereignty on these wrecks has been upheld by the US Courts.

Spain has impeccable records.

Forensic analysis of artefacts has made some incredible advances in recent years. It is now very easy to determine a metallurgical fingerprint of an artifact. Databases are available to match these fingerprints with known examples.

We have recently seen that Spain is getting back involved in Florida shipwrecks, and who knows what that will entail. We have also seen Spain make claims on virtually every arrest of 'unidentified sailing vessels', no matter where located.

Please keep in mind that the content of my posts was not directed at GME, but at the comments made from other posters.

Strong work on the find, I understand how exciting that can be. I wish you luck.

 

[Thensaurus]

Where have we recently seen where Spain is getting involved in Florida shipwrecks, officially?

 

[Black Duck]

AUV no offense taking

There are 4 sites 2 sites are the same ship so there are 3 ships, one of these ships is from a different time and country "we think" due to investigations to date.

Spain may have great records but 1650 back not so much "if I am wrong please show me" IF it is not Military or was not built for or owned by Spain it does not belong to Spain"

And once again we are willing to work with any State agency or Country if it is there ship by law

Thanks all for the input

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Seems like it would be difficult to prove that is was not a Spanish vessel, and not owned by the Spanish Government.

SMCA is but one act or set of rules, there are many others. Look at most of the arrests that Odyssey has had taken away due to sovereign ownership claims, specifically the Mercedes, Laconia, and Cairn Hill, all under Law of Salvage/Law of Finds.
Laconia, Cairn Hill arrests were vacated due to intervention by the Brits as sovereign British, even though they were privately owned cargo vessels, the Brits paid off the insurance claims and assumed ownership, sovereign ownership.

the Brits paid off the insurance claims and assumed ownership, sovereign ownership.

Shouldn't this then be applied to the so called "Mercedes"?

 

[Bum Luck]

Seems like it would be difficult to prove that is was not a Spanish vessel, and not owned by the Spanish Government.

SMCA is but one act or set of rules, there are many others. Look at most of the arrests that Odyssey has had taken away due to sovereign ownership claims, specifically the Mercedes, Laconia, and Cairn Hill, all under Law of Salvage/Law of Finds.
Laconia, Cairn Hill arrests were vacated due to intervention by the Brits as sovereign British, even though they were privately owned cargo vessels, the Brits paid off the insurance claims and assumed ownership, sovereign ownership.

Things haven't changed much from Black Sam Bellamy's day, it looks like.

"Tho', damn ye, you are a sneaking Puppy, and so are all those who will submit to be governed by Laws which rich Men have made for their own Security, for the cowardly Whelps have not the Courage otherwise to defend what they get by their Knavery..."

"They villify us, the Scoundrels do, when there is only this Difference, they rob the Poor under the Cover of Law, forsooth, and we plunder the Rich under the Protection of our own Courage..."

 

[AUVnav]

Shouldn't this then be applied to the so called "Mercedes"?

Well, yes, and no.

No, because the British compensated Captain Alvear for his loss of his wife and 8 of his children along with his personal fortune, with 30,000 British Pounds. Alvear was a very well respected Naval officer of the day, and of course, at that time Spain and Britain were not at war.


and yes because “When it was announced that the ship was indeed the Mercedes, [Odyssey] began looking for people in Latin America and Spain who were descendants of those who had property on board the ship, and then signed contracts with them to help them reclaim their rights,” Goold said. But that effort failed when it was also discovered in the records, that Spain had years ago compensated those who lost items or property on board."

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Didn't the British compensate the Spanish crown for their share that was lost? So GB should get that share of coins?

And since you mentioned it... loss of his wife and 8 children.... on a military mission? Citizens on a military mission?

 

[AUVnav]

No, The British only compensated Alvear, he was a very respected Naval Officer of the time.

As noted, SPAIN compensated property owners lost.

The issue of the military mission has been argued many times, all the way to the US Supreme Court. Also noted, Macks addendum to the SMAC was NOT included.

SMAC is not the only determination of sovereignty.

Time to evolve, its all being shut down.

 

[Black Duck]

AUV
Please stop putting incorrect information on the post

You do not know what you are talking about, show me were Spain has ever claimed a non military ship in Florida and Odyssey docent count that was a Military ship and Spain was justified in that case

So if you do not have the facts stop making a fool of yourself you have no idea what you are talking about

Bobby Pritchett GME

 

[Salvor6]

Time to evolve, its all being shut down.

Time to evolve into pirates!

 

[AUVnav]

AUV
Please stop putting incorrect information on the post

You do not know what you are talking about, show me were Spain has ever claimed a non military ship in Florida and Odyssey docent count that was a Military ship and Spain was justified in that case

So if you do not have the facts stop making a fool of yourself you have no idea what you are talking about

Bobby Pritchett GME

Please explain what you are talking about? Everything in the post is factual. Where is it that I stated Spain has claimed a non military ship in Florida?

Odyssey docent count that was a Military ship and Spain was justified in that case

This sentence is barely coherent, so who are you calling foolish?

State your question in a coherent statement, and use spell check.

Then I will endeavour an answer.

IF you are attempting to justify the Mercedes, Odyssey did try to claim it was a mail ship, on non military service. That claim was denied by Spain, the Courts in Florida, and denied by the US Supreme Court.

A Spanish vessel of the day that was not owned by the Crown? Military or not, still sovereign.

 

[Black Duck]

show me were Spain has ever claimed a non military ship
Is that clear enough for you

Guy You are not putting correct information on this tread so please stop acting like you know something, its just wrong and if you do not have your facts right why would make these statements

Who are you anyway, maybe this would help explain

Is that clear enough

Please explain what you are talking about? Everything in the post is factual. Where is it that I stated Spain has claimed a non military ship in Florida?



This sentence is barely coherent, so who are you calling foolish?

State your question in a coherent statement, and use spell check.

Then I will endeavour an answer.

IF you are attempting to justify the Mercedes, Odyssey did try to claim it was a mail ship, on non military service. That claim was denied by Spain, the Courts in Florida, and denied by the US Supreme Court.

A Spanish vessel of the day that was not owned by the Crown? Military or not, still sovereign.