4 Ringer Bullet? & June 27 1882 patent?

[Smilodon]

These three items are from two different locations. I cant find the bullet anywhere anbut I am sure someone can make a proper identification. It is ~ 1" in length and made of lead. The other piece is also made of lead and not sure exactly what that it but it is ~ 1-1/2". The last item is iron and I think it states Pat - (June or July)- 27 - 82. Not sure what the else is on it. It is ~ 8" in length. Thanks for looking and I hope someone can identify these items.

Thanks, Smilodon

 

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[skeeterd]

What is the diameter of the bullets? (I believe the 2nd item is also a bullet) Also, what is the weight of the bullets in grains? ( 1 pound = 7000 grains.) These measuresments are more important than length when identifying bullets.

 

[Smilodon]

Hello, Thanks for the response, I currently do not have the ability to have them weighed. I will be at the post office next week and they can weigh them for me. The measurement of the first one in nice shape is 15/16" long and diameter is 9/16". The other one's diameter is much less, 3/8" diameter and 1-1/4" in length

 

[skeeterd]

The bullet that measures 9/16 is probably a .56 caliber bullet. And the 3/8 is probably .375 caliber. The 2nd is damaged enough that it may be something else. Bullets are measured to the thousandth of an inch and this will determine the caliber. Just a couple thousandths of an inch difference will mean a totally different bullet. Try googling .50, .54 and .56 caliber cast bullets and see what you come up with. Same with the .375 bullet. Remember, when it comes to bullets, weight (in grains) and diameter (to the 1000th of an inch) are the most important info.

 

[Smilodon]

Any ideas

Thanks for the information. I have looked everywhere and cannot find a bullet that has four rings like this one anywhere, has anyone ever seen one like this before? any ideas on time frame?

Also anyone know anything about the 82 patent item

Thanks, Smilodon

 

[skeeterd]

I'll give you a little more info to help with your research. The rings you see on your bullets, are called "grease grooves". Wax or some sort of lubricant is forced into these rings in lead cast bullets to improve effiniency in the barrel and reduce the black powder fouling in the barrel. Often, the first groove from the nose of the bullet is called the "crimping groove". It did not have lubricant but the end of the casing was crimped into it to keep the bullet from working its way in or out of the case. The hollow base of cast bullets is to help the base of the bullet to expand slightly when the burning powder forces the bullet down the barrel creating a seal between the bullet and the powder. That way, no pressure from the burning powder is lost untill the bullet exits the barrel. Lead bullet casting for black powder rifles is very popular, even today. This makes ageing a lead bullet somewhat difficult. But from the looks of yours, they are very old. To determine the kind of gun they were shot from, you need a micrometer to measure them to the 1000th of an inch in diameter. That will give you the reference to look for in your research. A great book to look into is "Cartridges of the World". I'm not an expert by any means, but I hope this helps you a bit more! Sorry I can't help on your other item.

 

[Invested]

Did you ever find out what the piece of iron with the jun 27 82 marking was? I found the exact same piece yesterday in Chapel Hill NC.

 

[HuntinDog]

Your last piece is a part of a plow

 

[Anduril]

US Patents were indeed issued on June 27, 1882. (259992 though 260349)
358 Utility patents, and 16 design patents. (13003 through 13018).

So, that's a total of 374 patent abstracts to sift through if you feel lucky enough to recognize the piece in one of the drawings.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Your last piece is a part of a plow

yep might be a patented horse drawn plow point. If someone can search the key word plow with that patent date might narrow down the search. I dont know how to search it. but definitely solvable.

 

[nhbenz]

The two items in question, although marked the same and with apparently the same means of attachment look like different shapes to me... One is curved on the left side, while the other is flat. Does this look right to others? I'm supposing that if that is so they are different parts to the same thing, unless its simply a matter of minor changes made on them.

 

[Anduril]

yep might be a patented horse drawn plow point. If someone can search the key word plow with that patent date might narrow down the search. I dont know how to search it. but definitely solvable.

Here's a link, but looking very quickly, it didn't jump out at me - whatever this is.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89046925988;view=1up;seq=1019

Link should take you right to page 1961 of the USPTO Gazette, Vol-21, No 14.
Good luck!!

 

[Tnmountains]

The first bullet may be a modern black powder bullet the second with patina is pretty mangled. Was the first bullet a water find or cleaned?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The bullet's finder, Smilodon, has made only 110 posts since joining T-Net in April 2011, and hasn't posted anything since April of this year. The "4-groove" bullet is a British 1866-and-later .577 caliber Snyder-Enfield Rifle bullet. Some of those rifles got issued to the Canadian Royal Northwest Mounted Police (in the 1880s, IIRC), and some of their bullets have been dug and posted here in the What-Is-It? forum by Canadian T-Net members. A few of these Snyder-Enfield "4-ringer" bullets have been dug in the US. Due to the resemblance to civil war era Minie bullets, some folks claimed the US-dug ones were from the civil war, but we know for certain that none were manufactured prior to the end of the civil war. Anybody who doubts it can Google the name "577 Snyder" or "Snyder Enfield."

The second bullet is partially fire-melted and thus is too far gone to identify with certainty. However, its reported approximate caliber (3/8th-inch) and raised-rings body prove it to be from sometime after the end of the civil war, and possibly, several decades later.