$3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbors Back Yard

Alexandre

Bronze Member
Oct 21, 2009
1,047
438
Lisbon
$3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

$3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard by Sub Sea Research

Last Updated on Friday, 27 January 2012 05:52


Boston, MA Sub Sea Research (SSR) spent months searching for the elusive ship, the Port Nicholson, torpedoed by German U-boat U87, June 1942. It took two torpedoes and about 7 hours to sink her. U-87 also fired at the troop ship the “Cherokee,” quickly sinking her with a heavy loss of lives.

The Port Nicholson is a steel-hulled, 481 ft. merchant ship, coal fired freighter built in 1918 at the Tynes & Wear shipyard. She was carrying two special envoy USSR agents overseeing the delivery of a very important Lend-Lease payment from the USSR to USA. She along with 4 other commercial vessels were being escorted by an unusually high number of military ships. The normal ratio at the time was near 1:10 or less but this convoy ratio was 6:5. Maybe it was the fact they were delivering 1,707,000 oz. troy, in 400 oz. bars of platinum. Strangely the two USSR special envoy individuals quickly disappeared after being rescued and brought to American shores. They were not de-briefed like all the other survivors were.

SSR first discovered the Port Nicholson in 600-800 feet of water off Cape Cod in 2008. In 2009 SSR obtained legal recognition from the US Courts as the legal owner and salvager of the ship.

SSR researchers corresponded with individuals manning the ships and even spoke with another U-boat captain who was in the same area. They have talked with survivors and relatives of the men of the Port Nicholson and the Cherokee. One Yarmouth, MA author has written a book and is waiting for “the last chapter” of raising the valuable cargo of the Port Nicholson. These researchers also found declassified documents verifying the cargo as well as the debriefing of the sinking.

According to SSR research, the Port Nicholson and four other ships were being escorted by six military ships in a convoy from Halifax to New York. The Port Nicholson is documented to be carrying ~1,707,000 troy ounces of platinum. It may also contain $165M of copper, zinc and war stores. Greg Brooks, one of two SSR founders, said his team has already recovered several identifying and critical artifacts. He has verified that “it is without a doubt the Port Nicholson”.

Late in the summer of 2011, after 100’s of hours of ROV video, they have seen what appear to be bullion boxes containing 4 bars, each being 400 troy ounces of precious metal. “We have seen boxes indicative of those used to store and ship this type of bullion in 1942. Our video clearly shows the box and our inspection class remotely operated vehicles (ROV) could not lift it due to its weight of about 130 lbs.”

A similar discovery occurred in 1981 when the HMS Edinburgh was discovered in the Barents Sea. It too carried a USSR Lend-lease payment. This wreck, in 800 feet of water, took almost three years to salvage in 1981 (Salvage of the Century) and contained $100M of gold (1981 prices). Richard Wharton, one of the original salvagers, provided SSR with photos and dimensions of the wooden boxes from the HMS Edinburg containing the gold bullion bars. These wooden bullion boxes were the same type shipped within six weeks of the Port Nicholson. According to Brooks, “We used our manipulator arm to scale our box dimensions. They appear close and almost exactly match the boxes salvaged in 1981. Mr. Wharton’s photos are almost identical to the boxes we have seen on our wreck. We nudged and pushed the boxes with maximum thrust from our ROV. We have verified these boxes have unusually high mass as one would expect for bullion. What is different from the Edinburgh boxes and unique to ours is that ours are very well preserved and do not easily come apart. Things are very well preserved. We even flipped the pages in a book and the pages remained intact. That was amazing to see.”

“We have been working and planning the site since 2009. Our current equipment is just not enough to handle the 2-5 knot currents, mostly zero visibility and the excessive ocean conditions at the site. It takes us 10 hours from Boston Harbor to get to the site. And, conditions such as these leave few and very small windows of onsite time each year in which we can safely work on the site. We certainly underestimated the conditions and maybe over estimated our capacity even with the 214 ft. M/S Sea Hunter and a 95 ft. ship M/S Son Worshipper fully equipped with a sub, ROVs, 125 ton crane, claw and sonar gear.

Photos taken from the HMCS Nanaimo at the time of the sinking show the Port Nicholson bow straight up in the air. She went down straight and slammed to the bottom vertically, stern first at about 30 mph and is now lying on her starboard side. This position, along with the numerous metal, wires, pipes, booms, debris as well as 70 years accumulation of fishing net snags makes access extremely difficult from the deck side. “The holds are not upright and we certainly are not simply going down into the holds with a lift and pulling up the cargo. We may have to cut into the hull to gain access and that is complicated and requires a different tool set. The ship carried war stores thus requiring even greater caution and safety procedures.”

“There is nothing more frustrating for each of our crew, as well as our financial supporters, to see, touch and feel the bullion box and not be able to quickly and simply retrieve it. There is nobody on this earth who wants to bring up that box more than me. We’ve been at it a while now.”

While the ship, M/S Sea Hunter is capable of remaining on-site in almost any weather, SSR has exhausted the capability of the ROV and support equipment. SSR is now entertaining private support from special technical and financial organizations. The operation needs to re-capitalize so that SSR can order or retain a heavy duty state of the art work class ROV, fully outfitted with the tool set to complete the salvage and bring a bar on deck. This specialized equipment costs about $2.5M, requires well trained support crews and is capable of lifting heavy loads and has a long build/lease lead time of up to 20 weeks.

“Many marine technology firms are very interested in helping and being part of such an exciting treasure salvage project right in Boston’s back yard. They want to share in this once in life time adventure. And, it has a rich local and national history with a high degree of intrigue.”

“We have spoken with some interesting individuals and some family investment groups who are bored with traditional opportunities. They are certainly tired of the significant swings and losses occurring in the market today. They are most intrigued with the unique sense of history and adventure the Port Nicholson treasure simply from the excitement factor.

“Who wouldn’t want to be a treasure hunter, have a real piece of history (1942 platinum) and be able to say ‘I am a real treasure hunter’. It is every kid’s dream to be a treasure hunter and some adults dream of it too!”

“All we have left to do is get the right equipment to bring up the bars we have seen. 2012 is our year to make this all come to fruition!”

Sub Sea Research LLC (SSR), a Maine company founded in 1994, maintains a fleet of ships and scientific exploration equipment to engage in research, conservation, development and exploration activities around the world aimed at finding, recovering or preserving underwater shipwrecks of special historical and cultural significance.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

it looks like another scam, to me.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

I had thought the same thing about some of odyssey's finds, but as far as i know they turned out to be legit. I think that perhaps both of those companies may regularly use press releases to raise their stock prices / ???.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Hi,

Alexandre, I can say that I highly respect you and I consider you very qualified marine archaeologist, but why do you consider SSR press release immediately as a scam? If you know something more about this discovery, share this information with us on TH forum, otherwise do not condemn any salvage company prior some deep investigation. At least it is my opinion. And regarding this particular case, as I know SSR has been after this wreck really for some time. Greg Brooks gave a priority to this project. Every bigger salvage company has its up's and down's but I thing that SubSea Research can put on the table some positive results from the past, and not only from time of their Haiti operations.

Lobo (Bobadilla)
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Same story on video:
The Richest Shipwreck Treasure, in Bostons back yard

 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Bobadilla said:
Hi,

Alexandre, I can say that I highly respect you and I consider you very qualified marine archaeologist, but why do you consider SSR press release immediately as a scam?

Well... first of all, let me say I consider this to be a salvage operation (if the story is true), where you re-insert into the market raw materials that were lost (something akin to Odyssey and the SS Gairsoppa). Although some of my colleagues work WWII time wrecks with archaeological methods, I consider that, in the majority of cases, these fall under the salvage umbrella.

Now, for this case... I find it rather odd, to say the least.

Let's say it was me that would have found it (the finding is always the most difficult part). Would I go public with the information, whinning that I am lacking a ROV that can lift a box of platinum.... or would I keep quiet, approach someone who has one, recover the stuff and only then go public?

If SSR really has the right wreck and the right story, then it would be a breeze to "order or retain a heavy duty state of the art work class ROV, fully outfitted with the tool set to complete the salvage and bring a bar on deck"

I fail to see the need to "re-capitalize" the operation.

Also, something that is amiss in the SSR press release - what's the legal status on this wreck? Somebody still owns those platinum ingots...

For me, it's a fishy business..
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

I don't know Mr. Brooks, but his reputation(around Maine) is one of talking big to investors and not producing. I hope they really found it, and I hope they all become bazillionaires, but if you found itin 2009, well, this is 2012, how come no platinium has seen daylight yet? Something seems off about that to me. I just play at this treasure stuff solely on a hobby basis, but if I located a ship full of platinium, I'll bet I could have some of it up in less than three years, I don't really care how deep or what the current is. There are companies out there that have the assets to get it up. Just sayin'
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Anybody of you could tell me something about so called "Trident Project" in which SSR was supposed to be involved, too? Thanks!

Regards,
Lobo
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

bell47 said:
I just play at this treasure stuff solely on a hobby basis, but if I located a ship full of platinium, I'll bet I could have some of it up in less than three years, I don't really care how deep or what the current is. There are companies out there that have the assets to get it up.

Spot on.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Alexandre said:
Well... first of all, let me say I consider this to be a salvage operation (if the story is true), where you re-insert into the market raw materials that were lost (something akin to Odyssey and the SS Gairsoppa). Although some of my colleagues work WWII time wrecks with archaeological methods, I consider that, in the majority of cases, these fall under the salvage umbrella.

Why is that Alexandre?
Do you not think that there is historical cultural material that should be studied?
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Au_Dreamers said:
Why is that Alexandre?
Do you not think that there is historical cultural material that should be studied?

I do think that the archaeological method can be used to study anything. Look at what they are doing in Spain, using archaeologists to dig graves of people that were victims of General Franco dictactorship.

Or look at the way latrines from the late 19th century are being dug and studied at the USA. Or the way Jim Delgado or Brett Phaneuf have studied the Bikini Atoll shipwrecks from the atomic bomb tests or the D Day beaches.

My personal opinion is that, resources and people and money being scarce, we really should abide by the UNESCO convention threshold of 100 years submerged, but with a caveat: he should be going through this ships on a case by case scenario.

For instance, one of the last studies I did was on an ex-Liberty ship that sunk in the Azores in 1961 - the local diving community wanted it protected and turned into an underwater preserve.

Was it archaeologically significant? No.

But historically and emotionally, it was. It was a ship that was present at Omaha Beach on D Day, and saw battle action on the Med, in the Atlantic, on the Murmansk run and saw the end of WWII in the Pacific. People lived there and fought there, even downed a German plane from there. Once you get people and their stories and their faces into a rusty old wreck, then it gets meaningful.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Alexandre could you please in your own words tell me what you believe "archaeologically significant" means to you?

Not some quote of someone else, not a textbook teaching, but your own personal belief.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

"archaeologically significant" means different things to different people.

an example: I hate pre-history. I think that a lot of pre-history archaeologists are a bunch of people that throw wild guesses around when faced with an unknown artifact (then, it's either a phallic symbol or a sacred item) and that manage to see, in rock art, stuff that bewilders me.

another example: people that love amphorae. they known them by heart and can tell a fragment of sigillata B from another of sigillata C. for me, it's boring...

take me: I loves ships and the people that built, sailed and perished in them. all my archaeology was done underwater - I have never excavated in land (nor do I want to do it, ever, too much dust and blisters in your hands and too much broken ceramic).

for me, what gets me is Modern Age ships. for another, it will be Classical ships. for another, it will be the Missouri or the Bikini Attol ships.

they are all significant - to someone.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

As I've said before, this is most likely a hoax. And here is why :evil5:

1. They claim to have found these platinum bars. Yet not one picture has surfaced. Why withhold such a bargaining chip in this quest for more investor dollars?

2. Convoy XB-25 was not a lend-lease convoy. The average for those was around 35 merchant ships and 15 or more escorts capable of detecting submarines.

3. The ship came from Avonmouth and not the ports of Arkhangelsk or Murmansk where the Russians loaded all material for reverse lend-lease.

4. The Russians never made any lend-lease payments and were not required to until around 1947. They did sell the US approximately $50 million worth of Asbestos, Platinum, Magnesium and Chromite in 1941. But it was all shipped back in Arctic Lend-Lease convoys.

5. They claim the ship was carrying industrial grade diamonds. But that was one of the cargoes the US was commonly shipping into Russia. It makes no sense they would be sending a shipment back.

6. The British government doesn't think it's true. Robert Marx doesn't think it's true. That's good enough for me.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

What is the archaeological significance of this one:?


Feb. 1: Anti oil floating barriers are pushed by strong winds around the grounded cruise ship Costa Concordia off the Tuscan island of Giglio, Italy.
ROME -- In the chaotic evacuation of the Costa Concordia, passengers and crew abandoned almost everything on board: jewels, cash, champagne, antiques, 19th century Bohemian crystal glassware, thousands of art objects including 300-year-old woodblock prints by a Japanese master.

In other words, a veritable treasure now lies beneath the pristine Italian waters where the massive luxury liner ran aground last month.

Though some objects are bound to disintegrate, there is still hoard enough to tempt treasure seekers -- just as the Titanic and countless shipwrecks before have lured seekers of gold, armaments and other riches for as far back as mankind can remember.

It may be just a matter of time before treasure hunters set their sights on the sunken spoils of the Costa Concordia, which had more than 4,200 people on board.

"As long as there are bodies in there, it's considered off base to everybody because it's a grave," said Robert Marx, a veteran diver and the author of numerous books on maritime history and underwater archaeology and treasure hunting. "But when all the bodies are out, there will be a mad dash for the valuables."

The Mafia, he said, even has underwater teams that specialize in going after sunken booty.

The Costa Concordia was essentially a floating luxury hotel, and many of the passengers embarked on the ill-fated cruise with their finest clothes and jewels so they could parade them in casinos and at gala dinners beneath towering chandeliered ceilings.

On top of that was massive wealth belonging to the ship itself: shops stocked with jewelry, more than 6,000 works of art decorating walls and a wellness spa containing a collection of 300-year-old woodblock prints by Katsushika Hokusai, a Japanese artist most famous for his work of a giant wave framing Mt. Fuji in the distance.

"It's now a paradise for divers," said Hans Reinhardt, a German lawyer who represents 19 German passengers seeking compensation for their loss. He said some of his clients traveled with diamond-studded jewels and other heirlooms that had been in their families for generations.

"They lost lots of jewelry -- watches, necklaces, whatever women wear when they want to get well dressed," Reinhardt said. "They wanted to show off what they have."

The massive cruise liner itself is worth euro450 million, but that's just the cost of the ship and engine and doesn't take into account the value of all other objects on board, said Davide Barbano, the spokesman for Costa Crociere, the Italian company that operated the Costa Concordia.

Barbano confirmed that among the sunken objects are furniture, the vast art collection, computers, wine, champagne, as well as whatever valuables were locked away in safes in private cabins. Costa Crociere still legally owns the ship and the passengers own their sunken objects.

"Quantifying this is impossible because unfortunately the ship has sunk," Barbano said. "Until the ship is recovered there's no way to know what can be saved and what can't."

The ship ran aground off the Tuscan island of Giglio after the captain, Francesco Schettino, veered from his approved course, apparently to move closer to entertain passengers with a closer view of the island -- a common cruise ship practice. Schettino is now under house arrest, facing accusations of manslaughter, causing a shipwreck and abandoning ship before all passengers were evacuated. Seventeen people are confirmed killed in the Jan. 13 shipwreck, with 15 more still missing.

For now, the ship's wreckage has been impounded by authorities and is surrounded by rescue workers, clean-up crews and scientists monitoring its stability on the rocky perch where it ran aground. Civil Protection, the agency that is running the rescue effort, says there is so much activity surrounding it now that authorities don't see a risk of looting yet. It also says it plans to remove the wreckage before looters can reach it.

After the ship ran aground, authorities passed a decree preventing anyone from coming within a nautical mile of the wreck, a ruling that will be valid as long as the huge liner is still in place, the Coast Guard said.

"The ship is being guarded 24 hours a day. It's not possible to even get close," said Lt. Massimo Maccheroni, a Coast Guard official.

Civil Protection director Franco Gabrielli said recently that it could take seven to 10 months to remove the 950 foot-long ship once a contract is awarded for the job.

But Marx, whose 64 books include "Treasure Lost at Sea," says that divers inevitably make a dash for sunken loot, even at great risk, and that they treat shipwrecks as a free for all.

He estimates that it will take about four to six months before a real treasure hunt will start -- in part because divers will want to avoid the rough winter sea. He said some divers will be put off because the ship is still shifting on the reef it collided into and is considered unstable.

But soon, treasure hunters will go.

"Bright-eyed divers will want to make a fortune," Marx said.

Even now, there are those trying to make a profit off the disaster. On eBay, all sorts of trinkets related to the shipwreck have already come up for sale, from coat hangers and medallions embossed with the cruise liner's name to a Costa Concordia desk plan.

Marx said that everything that is pulled up from this now-famous ship will have value, noting that even coal brought up from the Titanic, which sank 100 years ago, has found eager buyers.

"Even the dishes, the crockery inside that ship -- that's going to be worth an absolute fortune," Marx said.

Reinhardt, the German lawyer, says his clients would love nothing more than to get back their cherished valuables, which often carry emotional value. But at this point they are merely counting on a cash settlement.

"They would prefer to get their original stuff," he said. "But they don't have hope."
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Au_Dreamers said:
Alexandre said:
"archaeologically significant" means different things to different people.

Again, but what does it mean to YOU?


What I said above. Please re-read it-
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Alexandre said:
Au_Dreamers said:
Alexandre said:
"archaeologically significant" means different things to different people.

Again, but what does it mean to YOU?


What I said above. Please re-read it-

over half of what you posted was about other people.

What I read about you seemed more to divulge your "passion" not what "archaeologically significant" means to you.
 

Re: $3B WWII Shipwreck Located in Boston Harbor's Back Yard

Au_Dreamers said:
What I read about you seemed more to divulge your "passion" not what "archaeologically significant" means to you.


archaeologically significant for me is some context that can provide answer to questions that historical documents cannot provide and that will help me better understand where we came up as a people, a nation, a species... for instance, any Portuguese ship is archaeologically significant - only 3 have been found and properly excavated so far.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Discussions

Back
Top