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oldfireguy said:The "army" didn't start doing it till 1917... the confederacy was doing it for its shavetails 55 years earlier...
My reference was post civil war. I believe the bar they are talking about is the embroidered collar device. I am not aware of pin on rank devices being used during the CW.
oldfireguy said:
savant365 said:If I missed it in an earlier post I apologize but has anyone brought up the possibility that this could be a 2nd lieutenants insignia from either a militia unit or military academy graduate? It strongly resembles a 2nd lt. rank insignia but it looks like it might have been made specifically for a young officer as a gift from a proud father or something along those lines. Without any markings on the piece it could be very difficult to nail this one down if it was made specifically for an individual. Just my $.02 worth, good luck getting a positive ID on it (if it was mine you would have a hard time convincing me that it WASN'T a 2nd louie's). Great find,
HH Charlie
CRUSADER said:I have thought about this for awhile & read the various thoughts. At this time, there is only a very tentative connection with anything CW. I always have believed in starting from a blank sheet, as we all know that not everything on a Roman Villa Site is Roman. That said, it very well could be period, but I think its likely to turn out to be Civilian in origin. My my gut feeling holds no more water than anyones elses right now, evidence of similar ones are lacking right now. The thing that does spring to mind (in terms of looks) & has been mentioned is the top of a ribbon for maybe a medallion or fob.
Things we are sure about are that its 19th C (probably late) & Gold
nova treasure said:The 2nd lieutenant bars were usually embroidered cloth, but with the exception that 14kt gold bars were pinned on at Graduation at the U.S Military Academy.
Nova Treasure
savant365 said:If I missed it in an earlier post I apologize but has anyone brought up the possibility that this could be a 2nd lieutenants insignia from either a militia unit or military academy graduate? It strongly resembles a 2nd lt. rank insignia but it looks like it might have been made specifically for a young officer as a gift from a proud father or something along those lines. Without any markings on the piece it could be very difficult to nail this one down if it was made specifically for an individual. Just my $.02 worth, good luck getting a positive ID on it (if it was mine you would have a hard time convincing me that it WASN'T a 2nd louie's). Great find,
HH Charlie
Culinary Caveman said:jmo, but it looks a lot like a tie pin to me, especially the fastner on the back.
Culinary Caveman said:Not a waste of time at all and I didn't meam to offend. It just seems to me that I remember my grandfather having a tie pin that was similar to the pic though it had his name engraved in the center. As I said jmo, though I do hope that it turns out to be CW military for you.
savant365 said:I know this is not the same time period as the other finds at the site but here is a catalogue from 1928 that sells gold 2nd Lt. bars. page 12 item #29329 second L.t bars, pair, gilt$1.50 rolled gold $2.50
http://www.scribd.com/doc/32341206/BB-B-Bailey-Banks-Biddle-Co-Catalog-1928
So at least we know that 2nd Lt. bars were available in gold to any 2nd Lt. Now if we can just find a reference that dates a little closer to the rest of the finds from the site.
Charlie
Don in SJ said:Interesting find and discussions. I don't think it is military, don't believe any of the quotes of gold when referring to the military hardware really means 14k solid gold. As far as I know, but could be wrong, the Lt bar has always been either gold colored thru plating or gold colored brass, not solid gold, only the special graduation 2nd Lt bars of the Military academy are 14k gold and they are engraved on the back side with year of graduation.
The jeweler that tested your pin, did he cut into the pin for his test of just apply something on top of the surface? If so, was he sure it was solid gold?
As far as being Confederate., whether issue or private, I found this photo and this example is nowhere near your pin in appearance.
I think as you have stated, you may never know what the use was for sure, keeping this post alive will hopefully in the long run come to a positive answer. (And it is not fun having a UNK like this, you always want a good answer)
Don