2 German Subs off Egmont Key ?

[Urban Legend]

I was having breakfast with my Dad this morning and he recounted a story that he had told me many years ago..
My Dad is 84 and was stationed at MacDill AFB during the Korean war and did a lot of recreational diving in his time off..As he recalls...there were 2 German submarines about a mile out from Egmont Key and when the water was calm you could see them from a boat...I'm guessing the water was a bit clearer in the 50's...
He said they were smaller sub's and appeared to have been scuttled because he couldn't see any damage on them..
The second time that he dove on the site he was met by the Coast Guard and removed from the area and told not to return ..I'm guessing they didn't want it to be public knowledge that the Germans had gotten to the mouth of Tampa Bay in WWII...perhaps even having spies scuttle their Uboats before coming ashore ?
Well...that's what I heard at breakfast today..My dads mind isn't as sharp as it once was but he still has a handle on his facts and remembers all the stuff I screwed up when I was a kid...though he might not remember what he had for breakfast today. ..
Happy Hunting

 

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[noluckyet]

Sounds very interesting. Well thats how things get found! from previous recollections from eyewitnesses.

 

[Boatlode]

They are German midget subs.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/5049-submarine-wrecks-florida-waters.html

 

[Urban Legend]

They are German midget subs.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/5049-submarine-wrecks-florida-waters.html

Thanx for finding this thread.. I guess there's a little bit of truth to this story..

 

[barney]

Thanx for finding this thread.. I guess there's a little bit of truth to this story..

Nope. Totally absent of truth. Sorry, but it's just a tall tale....

 

[Urban Legend]

Nope. Totally absent of truth. Sorry, but it's just a tall tale....

Just because you haven't found them doesn't mean that they don't exist....
It just means that they're not where they're supposed to be or where you're looking .
There's been a lot of big storms in the Gulf in the last 50 years ...they could have been dragged out further or even buried in the white sand that is so abundant on the gulf coast..
Every time a major storm goes up the coast its like Christmas.. you never know what you'll find..
Happy Hunting.

 

[Jolly Mon]

I suspect the story started from this: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...pNPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dVIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6003,4268149

 

[Urban Legend]

With more than a few accounts of being escorted away from the Egmont Key area by the Coast Guard ...my Dad included..
It'd probably be safe to assume that the Coast Guard got tired of monitoring the area and just relocated it into deeper waters ..
In any case...it probably not sitting in 18 ft of water ...too many have looked for it and came up empty .

 

[ECS]

Nope. Totally absent of truth. Sorry, but it's just a tall tale....

...no 88 shells filled with diamonds!

 

[Boatlode]

Nope. Totally absent of truth. Sorry, but it's just a tall tale....

I'd be very interested to see your research on this.

BTW - I read your book. It is excellent.

 

[barney]

I'd be very interested to see your research on this.

It's impossible to show research on something that does not exist. But had there been any u-boat in the Tampa Bay area -- ignoring the fact it makes no sense due to lack of a USN base -- or had any u-boat been subjected to tests or sinking, there would be records of it. Or if USCG had moved or removed them -- ignoring the fact that also makes no sense -- there again would be records of it. There are records of every u-boat that were captured during WWII or received following WWII, tests conducted on them, etc. Lots of records. And these were conducted where there were suitable facilities and locations to do so. The fact there is no adequate USN base in the Tampa Bay area, or a live-fire testing area, again casts huge doubt on these stories. There is simply no credibility to them - not trying to defame your father or anything...just speaking bluntly.
If they were that shallow, many, many people would know about them...even with a length of 40' and a potential height off the bottom of 8', that's a large target in 18' of water back then. Even more so now!
The fact is there are many stories like this, midget subs, secret subs, subs full of mercury floating around the gulf and hard to find because they are always moving. The source is always some person who heard or saw the subs, but yet no factual evidence such as pictures or other info can be produced. Without even a shred of factual evidence to work with, they are just "interesting" stories...

 

[Urban Legend]

Thanx Barney for clearing this up. .
My dad's memory is getting a bit foggy at times thought I do remember the U-boat tale from my youth...
With the actual dimensions ...depth..and proximity of the alleged sub ( or sub's) there would be a lot of substantial evidence to prove their existence....
Thanx again....

 

[Jolly Mon]

While I don't believe the original story as far as the proximity of potential wrecks to Egmont Key is concerned, I see no reason why the lack of a USN base at Tampa would preclude the possibility of U-boat wrecks in the vicinity. It is not necessarily true that the USN would even know about such a wreck.

The German U-boat effort was not aimed primarily at the destruction of military vessels. It was very much an economic effort and targeted towards commercial vessels. The lack of a USN presence in the area might actually have acted as an impetus to German U-boat activity in the area.

 

[barney]

While I don't believe the original story as far as the proximity of potential wrecks to Egmont Key is concerned, I see no reason why the lack of a USN base at Tampa would preclude the possibility of U-boat wrecks in the vicinity. It is not necessarily true that the USN would even know about such a wreck.

The German U-boat effort was not aimed primarily at the destruction of military vessels. It was very much an economic effort and targeted towards commercial vessels. The lack of a USN presence in the area might actually have acted as an impetus to German U-boat activity in the area.

Think about it...what military or economic target would warrant traveling so far into shallow water - so different from typical u-boat operations where deep water was kept close as a means of escape/concealment. A u-boat traveling within 20+ miles from Tampa Bay would risk being seen from the air. The premise defies all logic.

 

[Urban Legend]

Think about it...what military or economic target would warrant traveling so far into shallow water - so different from typical u-boat operations where deep water was kept close as a means of escape/concealment. A u-boat traveling within 20+ miles from Tampa Bay would risk being seen from the air. The premise defies all logic.

MacDill AFB is in Tampa Bay and was in use in WWII ..I believe it was built in 1941..
A deep channel leads all the way from Egmont Key to Tampa ...
Its plausible that they could have had reconnaissance missions ?
They could have made a 20 mile run at night ?
Just guessing.... who knows....

 

[barney]

I obviously won't change your minds, so I'll just move on from this discussion....

 

[Urban Legend]

I obviously won't change your minds, so I'll just move on from this discussion....

Quite the contrary ....the info you provided has ruled out the existence of any sub off Egmont Key..
Speculation about MacDill and its proximity to Egmont are just part of what's been giving this story legs for all these years.
Thanx again for your input..

 

[ivan salis]

remember that german spies were dropped off on the east coast of florida during WW2 why not on the west coast of florida as well ..midget subs would be a much smaller target and harder to find if they used the deep water canal approach from Egmont key to Tampa--and only surfaced at night to drop off / pick up spies (typically the u boats of WW2 came up at night to charge their batteries) ...there are convoy routes running from Houston and New Orleans that during WW2 ran along the west coast of florida where ships would have coast hugged in shallow waters to make things hard on U boats .(.if a U boat attacked a merchant convoy in shallow water --any destroyer with them would be all over it and fast ),,,best thing a u boat couldi do in that case is to lay mines ...forcing the convoys to use a deep water route

 

[Urban Legend]

This legend has all the makings for a movie....
Espionage... Nazi's.. Disappearing evidence of a sub..eyewitness accounts...Coast Guard cover up..
All we need now is.....Geraldo Rivera.....

 

[Boatlode]

not trying to defame your father or anything...just speaking bluntly.

Not my father, I have no dog in this fight.

I agree there were extensive records kept on U-boats, but they have been wrong before. As an example, I refer you to the now famous case of the U-869 wreck identified off the NJ coast. According to the official naval records, this sub was sunk off Gibraltar.