1st ever purchase - would like opinions

[Twitch]

UPDATE - 1st ever purchase - would like opinions

Hello. Today I was out looking for coins and stopped at an out of the way pawn shop I'd never seen before. Coins were over priced but they also had a couple cases full of artifacts. All field grade stuff, a couple of decent axes, nothing really remarkable. However, there was a nice Dalton sitting in a tray with a non-decript woodland point. I asked to see the Dalton and nothing about it looked suspect. I asked the guy what he wanted for and he said he didn't know, the arrowhead guy wasn't in today. He asked another guy working there how much the arrowhead guy wanted for the point in the red tray. Other guy said 'I think $50'. I offered $40 and out I walked with the point. Looks like a Dalton, Sloan Dalton or a Pike Co point. I bought it in St Charles Co MO. It's made out of Burlington chert. It's 4-1/8" overall.

I know it's impossible to photo-authenticate a point but do you guys see anything obviously amiss with the point? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks.

 

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[StevefromMissouri]

Looks like a good one. Looks to have a river found look to it.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

My biggest concern would be that you got a point worth several hundred dollars for $40. Can't really say much from just the pictures though. It could be good and you got the deal of the day.

 

[Twitch]

Steve from MO - Thanks, that's about what I was thinking.

Steve from OH - My concern exactly. In hand it looks good, and maybe the guy didn't know what he had, or maybe now I'm the guy who doesn't know what he has.

 

[quito]

hard to say from sure for the pics, but there doesn't appear to be any obvious patina.

 

[theviking]

I'm far from an expert, but it looks like it has a decent patina to me in the form of mineral deposits as well as a decent creek or river polish. Looks very similar to this piece from a MO lithics site called a Sloan Dalton from Boone co MO made from Burlington chert. But as you good folks already stated its hard to authenticate from a few pics. Although, Burlington chert is often used in making repros. Good luck, Merry Christmas.

 

[monsterrack]

I don't see anything that jumps out and say's repro. Scope it good yourself and if you still have worries , send it to a good COA person and I mean someone that has a very good name. It's just $25 or a little more. It is a good looking blade

 

[joshuaream]

Can you post a couple of thickness shots? One from the side, and one looking at the point? (Side profile, and cross section.) There are a couple of traits of flaking and profile that are difficult for an average/decent knapper to master unless he's handled a lot of good daltons, or really studied techniques. They can absolutely be faked, but not quite as easily as some other point types.

Your profile says you live in Virginia, were most of the points from Missouri or were they local?

 

[Twitch]

Can you post a couple of thickness shots? One from the side, and one looking at the point? (Side profile, and cross section.) There are a couple of traits of flaking and profile that are difficult for an average/decent knapper to master unless he's handled a lot of good daltons, or really studied techniques. They can absolutely be faked, but not quite as easily as some other point types.

Your profile says you live in Virginia, were most of the points from Missouri or were they local?

JoshuaReam - Attached are a side and head on picture. I also included a picture of a small burin flake on the tip, not sure if this helps of not. I live in St Charles MO and bought this point from a pawn shop 5 or 10 miles west of town. Everything in the case was local MO lithic and types. I'm no expert, but nothing in the cases was clearly wrong. I need to update the 'ole profile. Since 2009 I've lived in Pennsylvania, Illinois, Virginia, Georgia and now Missouri.

Thanks for taking the time to check this point out.

Joe

 

[StevefromMissouri]

After those pics, I doubt the piece quite a bit. I usually don't give advice, because I am so green to the buying portion of our hobby.

 

[joshuaream]

I see a couple things I really like, and a couple that I don't. But no real glaring red flags jump out at me from the pictures.

I like that it's a nice hefty point. I don't like the flaking on the edge, that scissored look is usually cleaned up on Dalton points that have been resharpened. I kind of like the way the base is slightly above the center plane of the point. The flake scars are deep, which I like.

I'm not sure about it, I don't think I would have jumped on it.

 

[Twitch]

I appreciate the input from everyone. As I mentioned, I've never bought or sold an artifact in my life. I've only found 3 complete Dalton's in my life so I have limited information to go off of, and all 3 of those came from Kentucky not Missouri.

As it's not a screaming 'NO' or 'YES' based on the pictures I'll bring the point to the next GSLAS (Greater St Louis Archeological Society) meeting and see if with the point in hand it clears things up. I think this is scheduled for January. Thanks again, and any further / continued thoughts or input is still appreciated. Thanks.

 

[patiodadio]

I can't tell by looking at the photos but I would say its a good buy even if its a repo. I saw a guy flint napping knifes etc at a show and he was charging $$$$ and people were paying $$$$......

 

[IAMZIM]

My biggest concern would be that you got a point worth several hundred dollars for $40. Can't really say much from just the pictures though. It could be good and you got the deal of the day.

In my experience, guys that run pawn shops don't know much about points. If they can't find a price for a "new" point on the internet, they won't be sure what to charge for it. I say it that way, because around here, everything in any pawn shop is priced by what they find the same thing for new on internet sites. Examp.: a burton snowboard sells for around $400-$600 new. Depending on the condition of the board, they will try to get as close to that price as they can. Sometimes you can talk them down in price, and sometimes you can't. Around here, when they have an arrowhead, they have no idea what it's worth is. Fake or otherwise. It's either overpriced, or underpriced. I saw a fake clovis once for $1500, and in the next case over, they had a group with many broken, but some perfect points, that you could tell were probably real because of most being the same type altho broken, and patina, and they wanted $10 for the group (about 50, with maybe 20 broken or chipped). (by the way, you could tell the clovis was a "cast").

 

[Twitch]

OK, so if I can get consensus that it's real or not real, either way I'm in good shape. What is the right protocol if opinions are mixed? Again, I ask because I've never bought or sold a point before so I don't know what people normally do.

Thanks.

 

[Tnmountains]

OK, so if I can get consensus that it's real or not real, either way I'm in good shape. What is the right protocol if opinions are mixed? Again, I ask because I've never bought or sold a point before so I don't know what people normally do.

Thanks.

I would take it to the show like you suggested and let your peers look at it and hold it and glass it. Very hard to tell from pictures but you have had some very knowledgable people weigh in. I am not one of those though!
I knew you had been after coins for a while but you are not a rookie on artifacts either.
Happy New Year!

 

[quito]

OK, so if I can get consensus that it's real or not real, either way I'm in good shape. What is the right protocol if opinions are mixed? Again, I ask because I've never bought or sold a point before so I don't know what people normally do.

Thanks.

Like has been mentioned, about any show would be an easy place to get some good opinions. Just ask a few of those that have a nice collection of the type, and not just anyone who will give you an opinion.

Not sure about everyone else, but I wouldn't buy anything i can get in hand that am not very, very, comfortable with.

 

[rock]

Most pawn shops dont know the retail let alone what they are as in age of a piece. They buy whatever they think it is I have seen repros as well as good pieces in pawn shops. The show is your best bet but for what you paid your could be holding a winner.

 

[NC field hunter]

Nice find Joe! Even if it is a store shelf find. You know your stuff. If this piece passed your inspection, I say it's real. I remember watching you study my dads Folsom point. You knew far more than I did. Bulb of percussion, all the lingo and what it meant, and how to look for it. Lol!

 

[monsterrack]

Twitch after looking at the other photos of your buy I can say this for sure the point does have the flaking of a Dalton to me and this point does not show the typical rechipping twist to the blade of one that has been resharpend. This is what I call a first stage Dalton, it was made and not used very much, but without scoping it I wont make a for sure call, but this is a very good example of a Dalton style found in Mo.