1792 5 sol in Alabama farmfield + silver

[FatCat]

I got out for a short hunt with my buddy and was not expecting to find one of these, though I did not know what one of these was. I got home and a little research told me that it is a 5 sol token that was minted in 1792 to commemorate the taking of the Bastille during the french revolution two years earlier. It was originally minted to be used as currency but the new french government would not allow it to be used as such. The coin is huge and made of solid copper. I also got two silver rosies, 1 silver washington, some wheaties, buttons, toy gun, and a marble.

 

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[Iron Patch]

Yeah those are big, and I've never seen another found in North America. Different for sure!

 

[HISPAN]

I did not know French name Soles for the coins, I know named Sous.
But very nice coin .

 

[FatCat]

I do not Know very much about this coin/token and would love any input I could get. I wrote what little I found out at the top of the page but would love to have more information.

 

[Iron Patch]

I do not Know very much about this coin/token and would love any input I could get. I wrote what little I found out at the top of the page but would love to have more information.

Sounds like you pretty much got it all, except for it being bronze not copper.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Congrats on finding the 1792 French coin!
Nice finds on the '48 & '62 silver Rosies and the '64 silver Washington!

Dave

 

[Graddick]

This is a fascinating find. I can't imagine how such a thing ended up in an Alabama field.
The reverse reads:

Medallion worth 5 sols
Convertible into assignats of 50. or more
Year 4 of Liberty

The sol (aka the sou) was worth 1/20 livres or 12 deniers. It was equivalent to the old English shillings. Assignats were paper money issued by the French Revolutionary government that were backed by seized church property. Hyperinflation destroyed that currency pretty quickly.

Here's a link to a description of one in the British Museum: http://www.britishmuseum.org/explor...ects/cm/c/copper_5_sols_issued_by_the_mo.aspx

 

[ruck]

Nice Copper!

 

[steelheadwill]

That is an awesome find

 

[Sniffy]

That would go promptly into my showcased high end finds case.

 

[Iron Patch]

I do not Know very much about this coin/token and would love any input I could get. I wrote what little I found out at the top of the page but would love to have more information.

Well you might have got your wish for more.

I just clicked one of the links above that said the coin is copper, but my book says bronze, so I was thinking back to whether most of these I've seen were more black than brown, and that's when I looked at yours again thought... That thing has gilt! A quick search and sure enough.

PS: As it says below the normal French ones are indeed bronze, but the English, copper. Also.... I have never seen one of the regular bronze ones dug in North America, but that doesn't really mean much because they shouldn't really be here, however, I am a steady French coin buyer from that era and before and have never seen one loaded with gilt like shown below, not even being sold from anywhere, including France. Of course I wasn't looking for one which most likely explains it, but it certainly is not anywhere as common as the regular 5 sols. Definitely more research is needed to determine variety and rarity. Says tons were made so will have to do a little looking. The one question I have is if all the copper soho ones had gilt, and if they did, why do most that exist today just look like copper. Can't really see all the gilt wearing off most of them.







This gilt (gold covered) Monneron token 5 Sols was minted in Birmingham England. Late in 1791 Matthew Boulton, utilizing his newly invented steam driven coin press, was commissioned by the Monneron Brothers of Paris France to produce 1, 2 and 5 Sols pieces in great quantity at his Soho Mint near Birmingham. According to various sources, the total weight of tokens produced was in excess of 70 tons. These 'monnaies de nécessité' were to be used to remedy the lack of specie (small change) which plagued France during the early revolutionary years. The technical and aesthetic quality of the tokens was far superior to the bronze coins i France at the time.
Obverse - Soldiers swearing allegiance to personification of 'France', who holds a copy of the Constitution. Legend: "VIVRE LIBRES OU MOURIER." ("Live Free or Die"). In exergue: "14 JUILLET 1790"
Above the flags: "PACTE FEDERATIF"
Reverse: "MEDAILLE DE CONFIANCE DE CINQ-SOLS REMBOURSABLE EN ASSIGNATS DE 50 L. ET AU DESSUS." In exergue: "L'AN IV DE LA LIBERTE" Legend: "MONNERON FRERES NEGOCIANS A PARIS 1792." Edge reads: "DEPARTEMENS DE PARIS . RHONE ET LOIRE . DU GARD . &c".

This coin is Mazard No. 146. There are several other types, some much rarer, including types struck in silver. The 1791 issues were quickly supplanted by the 1792 strikes. Only 36 gilt 5 Sols, and 24 silver examples of 1791 were made. These were made for sale and for presentation purposes, often to advertise the extreme skill available at Soho. Mazard lists the gilt 5 Sols of 1791 at Rarity 2 (Mazard 144) and the silver as Rarity 3. I do not a have a figure for the number of gilt coins struck for the more common 1792 issue but Mazard lists it at Rarity 1. No silver ones were produced for 1792 (except for the Hercules issues). KM's SCWC lists the silver issue but not the gilt ones for 1791 or 1792.



The date L'AN IV de la Liberté refers to the Revolutionary French Constitutional Calendar and translates as 1792. The scene on the obverse shows the Oath of the Federation, the first anniversary of which was celebrated by the Festival of the Federation on 14 July 1790. The Festival, which included a mass held by the great French statesman Talleyrand (1754-1838), then the Bishop of Autun, also commemorated the taking of the Bastille and the bond uniting the nation, the king, and the people.



In March 1792, the Monneron Brothers became bankrupt and one brother, Pierre, abandoned the business. Under the other brother, Augustin, the business recovered, but a law inacted 3rd May 1792 forbade the production of privately issued coinage. In September, a further decree also forbade the marketing of these 'Medailles de Confiance'. This emergency coinage only remained in circulation until the end of 1793. These are listed in KM under France Token issues of MONNAIES DE CONFIANCE (1791-92).

http://www.moneta-coins.com/photopo...&title=french-revolutiongilded-5-sols&cat=569

 

[FatCat]

Here are some better pics of the coin. I had no idea of its rarity.

 

[Iron Patch]

Here are some better pics of the coin. I had no idea of its rarity.

hmmm... Do you think that's gilt or just copper? It looked more like gilt in the picture above.

You should try and figure out if all the ones that were made at the Soho mint were gilded. I find it hard to believe they were because searching through google I found a couple with all the gilt, but all the others just seem to be copper (or the French bronze ones). I'm guessing it will end up not being rare, but if you do have one with gilt, and there's varieties, then I guess it's still possible. I think in the end it will probably ending being just a little more info. to talk about when you discuss the find.

 

[FatCat]

Thank you for all of your input and information. I am just astounded to have found this here. When I first found it I thought it was a cracker jack type token.

 

[Iron Patch]

Thank you for all of your input and information. I am just astounded to have found this here. When I first found it I thought it was a cracker jack type token.

haha. I could tell you stories!

That's what makes detecting great.

 

[Damon64]

Wow!!!

 

[FatCat]

Hey Iron Patch- it is gilt, the second pics show the relief better but the gilt got washed out as a result.

 

[Iron Patch]

Hey Iron Patch- it is gilt, the second pics show the relief better but the gilt got washed out as a result.

Right on. I was pretty sure it was gilt in teh first pic.

Well that at least confirms it was made at the Soho mint so you know that much. It's funny the French bronze one is listed in Krause but I don't see the British made one anywhere. Unless the French considered it a coin, and the Brits. a token, because the book is World Coins.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I don't think I've ever seen on of those posted on T-net before! Great Find

Cheers

 

[Lanny in AB]

Extremely cool!

All the best,

Lanny