1787 New York Copper

[Mike in Berks]

Hi everyone, i got permission to search a circa 1810 farmhouse this week I was searching it today
and after digging lots of clad coins i got a penny reading at 4 1/2 inches pulled out a copper coin
and i used some water on a rag to get some detail so i'd have an idea of what i had i searched a
while longer drove home and i was ready to post it in the Coin Forum but decided to get my
Redbook out and there it was in "Post Colonial Issues"
1787 NOVA EBORAC Reverse, Seated Figure Facing Right
my oldest and best find of the year............so far i'm not sure if their's a date under the crud
and i'm afraid to clean it anyone know if it's a common coin ? or is it a rare one ?
any T Net people ever dig one of these ?




Mike HH

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[Mike in Berks]

Congrats for the nice coin.WTG.

Thank you Bulgarian

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[Mike in Berks]

Sweet find Mike!! You just don't see those every day! Thanks for posting.

Steve

Thanks Steve i'm glad i could share it with everyone

 

[rammjäger]

Congrats,Mike !
your copper coin is even much older than the one I found the other day
here in South América
Mike

 

[Mike in Berks]

Looking at the picture I think it would be a big mistake to do any further cleaning. All the detail seems to be in the patina and will wash away. That condition is common here and I would probably leave it as is.

If fact, I'll go even as far as saying I am sure cleaning will only make it worse. Look at the surface wear on the edge, the detail on that coin is just hanging on.


They are all 1787 so not seeing the date isn't a huge deal. Also, it looks like there are only a few varieties with your's being the seated figure facing right, no real reason to risk cleaning it because even more detail wouldn't tell you anymore.

Iron Patch as much as i want to try cleaning it up you're probably right about leaving it alone
i'm going to take it to a coin dealer today and see what he says about it
and thanks much for the links and photo's

 

[rammjäger]

Looking at the picture I think it would be a big mistake to do any further cleaning. All the detail seems to be in the patina and will wash away. That condition is common here and I would probably leave it as is.

If fact, I'll go even as far as saying I am sure cleaning will only make it worse. Look at the surface wear on the edge, the detail on that coin is just hanging on.


They are all 1787 so not seeing the date isn't a huge deal. Also, it looks like there are only a few varieties with your's being the seated figure facing right, no real reason to risk cleaning it because even more detail wouldn't tell you anymore.

Yes,I made that mistake too

 

[Mike in Berks]

Wow, awesome find!

If I read the ND site correctly, "twenty-five to thirty specimens survive". Even if not, sure sounds like a banner to me.

Thank You BlackX 25 or 20,000 specimens it's "priceless" to me

 

[crazyjarhead]

I can see thats an old place disguised with modern materials. Nice find

 

[EARTHWORKS]

Nice find!!!

 

[Mike in Berks]

Congrats Mike.

Because of alot of Counterfeits back then & Weak strikes on Detail & Dates
on all coins. (Before you take that the wrong way, Counterfeits were as
good as the real thing back then.)

that could actually grade pretty high on detail in my opinion.
I would think at least Good on the one side.

could have been EF or AU When lost

As far as the Forum
I don't remember any found & posted
or even I.D.'d as a Possable Nova Eborac here.

Been alot of posts over the years though.

Thanks Jeff i hope your right on the grade i'll see what the coin dealer says today

 

[Don in SJ]

Gads, spent over 10 minutes writing a nice post on your great find and lost it! Anyway, super find Mike, in the many years I have been part of the metal detecting forum world I believe I only can recall seeing one other, perhaps two NY coppers ever being found, and I believe one of them might have been in a magazine like W&E.

My friend in Burlington County, who along with two of his buddies have found over a hundred different State coppers, do not have a NY copper so that tells me right there, they are not easily found.

I will try and get back to you on what some of the colonial collectors might say about your find, I did forward the photos to a couple of them.

As far as cleaning, I personally would never leave a ground found copper with dirt and active corrosion on it to stand as is. That is just inviting for it to continue to corrode at a slower rate than before but it will continue.

At minimum, if you do not attempt to clean the dirt off, I would recommend warm distilled water soaks, this will help neutralize the active corrosion going on and change the pH of the dirt left on the coin.

I would have to hold a coin in my hand and really look at it before I decided to peroxide the coin, if I felt it would loose a lot of detail, I would know then that the coin is already damaged and that the corrosion is underneath the details you see. On your coin, the Obverse is suspect to that possibility, especially in the upper right hand side. But with gentle removing of the dirt it might be OK, but if you are uncomfortable trying it, then don't. The Reverse side looks better, so perhaps start with wet Q-tips on that side in small areas at a time and see how it goes.

Again, whether you try and removed the dirt or not, I would do the warm distilled water soaks to stop future damage. A distilled water soak of a day or so might even be good enough to remove the dirt safely. Again, if the coin loses detail even in a water soak, then it was in bad shape to begin with. A solid patina coin will withstand peroxide or water soaks.

When done with the soaks, you must dry thoroughly! I put the coins under a desk lamp for a few hours. Afterwards one of three things to do, either leave the coin as is, coat it with Blue Ribbon Coin Conditioner, or coat it with Wax (Renaissance or Bees Wax).

Mike, nice going and it is a pleasure to see a not seen to often NY copper being posted. There have been many more Chain cents found over the years than NY coppers, I am sure. It is just there is not a big demand by collectors for them, but you did find yourself a coin that is rare for us to find!!!!

Don

 

[Iron Patch]

Gads, spent over 10 minutes writing a nice post on your great find and lost it! Anyway, super find Mike, in the many years I have been part of the metal detecting forum world I believe I only can recall seeing one other, perhaps two NY coppers ever being found, and I believe one of them might have been in a magazine like W&E.

My friend in Burlington County, who along with two of his buddies have found over a hundred different State coppers, do not have a NY copper so that tells me right there, they are not easily found.

I will try and get back to you on what some of the colonial collectors might say about your find, I did forward the photos to a couple of them.

As far as cleaning, I personally would never leave a ground found copper with dirt and active corrosion on it to stand as is. That is just inviting for it to continue to corrode at a slower rate than before but it will continue.

At minimum, if you do not attempt to clean the dirt off, I would recommend warm distilled water soaks, this will help neutralize the active corrosion going on and change the pH of the dirt left on the coin.

I would have to hold a coin in my hand and really look at it before I decided to peroxide the coin, if I felt it would loose a lot of detail, I would know then that the coin is already damaged and that the corrosion is underneath the details you see. On your coin, the Obverse is suspect to that possibility, especially in the upper right hand side. But with gentle removing of the dirt it might be OK, but if you are uncomfortable trying it, then don't. The Reverse side looks better, so perhaps start with wet Q-tips on that side in small areas at a time and see how it goes.

Again, whether you try and removed the dirt or not, I would do the warm distilled water soaks to stop future damage. A distilled water soak of a day or so might even be good enough to remove the dirt safely. Again, if the coin loses detail even in a water soak, then it was in bad shape to begin with. A solid patina coin will withstand peroxide or water soaks.

When done with the soaks, you must dry thoroughly! I put the coins under a desk lamp for a few hours. Afterwards one of three things to do, either leave the coin as is, coat it with Blue Ribbon Coin Conditioner, or coat it with Wax (Renaissance or Bees Wax).

Mike, nice going and it is a pleasure to see a not seen to often NY copper being posted. There have been many more Chain cents found over the years than NY coppers, I am sure. It is just there is not a big demand by collectors for them, but you did find yourself a coin that is rare for us to find!!!!

Don

Don, he did somewhat clean it and what you are looking at isn't really dirt. On this one I will have to greatly disagree with you about a water soak. Water could possibly remove more of the color which is creating the detail. The cleaning he did do was actually risky but stopped just at the right time. On thise coins water is basically the peroxide and usually just getting most of the dirt off is the best you can do. MANY of the coins we find here are like this and those I tried cleaning further are in the box with the plain and rotted coppers.

PS.. Over time there might be a little more patina come but I really doubt we would ever see corrosion enough to ruin the coin. Patina is easily thinned out again just wetting slightly and giving a little rub.


OH yeah, once upon a time my friend and I had the clever idea of taking along a small bottle filled with water to put our dug coins in. One day we hit an old sites and started finding some of the best coppers we had ever dug. They looked very nice coming out of the ground and we could clearly read them all. After a few hours in the water we got home to see much different coins. I had dug my oldest coin to date (1719 farthing) and could read the date when dug, but after the soak in my bottle the date was 100% gone. Water can kill coins just like several other things we try.

I WILL agree it's a very good find having never seen one posted before.

 

[Detectingfreak]

very nice job on the old copper!

 

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

Beautiful copper!

 

[baspinall]

Wow! Very nice coin. Bet there's more out there.

Brian

 

[Derek752]

Mike that is a FANTASTIC find , I have yet to ever find one but my huntin partner Rock the Great dug one several years back here in upstate Ny.

Congrats on a rarer Ny stse coppa

Derek

 

[Michigan Badger]

Awesome Mike!

Badger

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

Awesome NY coppa! I have never seen one posted as well!

Keep your coppa passion high!

Kirk

 

[Wasabi]

One nice old Coppa.
I dream of finding my first coin in the 1700's.
Some day, Some day!
Rob

 

[Mike in Berks]

Gads, spent over 10 minutes writing a nice post on your great find and lost it! Anyway, super find Mike, in the many years I have been part of the metal detecting forum world I believe I only can recall seeing one other, perhaps two NY coppers ever being found, and I believe one of them might have been in a magazine like W&E.

My friend in Burlington County, who along with two of his buddies have found over a hundred different State coppers, do not have a NY copper so that tells me right there, they are not easily found.

I will try and get back to you on what some of the colonial collectors might say about your find, I did forward the photos to a couple of them.

As far as cleaning, I personally would never leave a ground found copper with dirt and active corrosion on it to stand as is. That is just inviting for it to continue to corrode at a slower rate than before but it will continue.

At minimum, if you do not attempt to clean the dirt off, I would recommend warm distilled water soaks, this will help neutralize the active corrosion going on and change the pH of the dirt left on the coin.

I would have to hold a coin in my hand and really look at it before I decided to peroxide the coin, if I felt it would loose a lot of detail, I would know then that the coin is already damaged and that the corrosion is underneath the details you see. On your coin, the Obverse is suspect to that possibility, especially in the upper right hand side. But with gentle removing of the dirt it might be OK, but if you are uncomfortable trying it, then don't. The Reverse side looks better, so perhaps start with wet Q-tips on that side in small areas at a time and see how it goes.

Again, whether you try and removed the dirt or not, I would do the warm distilled water soaks to stop future damage. A distilled water soak of a day or so might even be good enough to remove the dirt safely. Again, if the coin loses detail even in a water soak, then it was in bad shape to begin with. A solid patina coin will withstand peroxide or water soaks.

When done with the soaks, you must dry thoroughly! I put the coins under a desk lamp for a few hours. Afterwards one of three things to do, either leave the coin as is, coat it with Blue Ribbon Coin Conditioner, or coat it with Wax (Renaissance or Bees Wax).

Mike, nice going and it is a pleasure to see a not seen to often NY copper being posted. There have been many more Chain cents found over the years than NY coppers, I am sure. It is just there is not a big demand by collectors for them, but you did find yourself a coin that is rare for us to find!!!!

Don

i sure am glad you replyed Don 10 minutes to write a reply then lost it it took me only 2 hours
to make this original post too many photo's are you saying you never dug one of these ?? i
thought for sure you would have a nice example i am looking forward to what your colonial coin collector
friends say about this one i just got back from a local coin dealer and he said he never saw one and
also said you have a very nice find there his advise was olive oil lol 96 to 05 i used olive oil till i
dicovered T Net thanks for the very informative advice i can relate to Iron Patches advise
because it's happened to me and others i know dig it up and watch all the details disappear useing olive oil
or water I'm goin to go with your advise though it's soaking in distilled water right now then i'll see
how it works out tomorrow i hope i get a little more detail out of it and get it stabilized

 

[Don in SJ]

One of the colonial researchers who previously wrote an article on Nova Eborac's said this " It is a 1787 Nova Eborac, Figure Right specimen. It looks like it might be an early die state reverse (without the cud) which are not that common."

So, cherish that find and glad to see one being found in a great area of our country.

What I found surprising is not me having found one, but my buddy in Burlington County and his friends, I thought if anybody would have found one his group would have. But then again, you never know, I found the 1722 Rosa Americana Penny this year and my friend in Burlington has not, yet both myself and my son have found one each.

Not sure if anybody is currently researching the Nova Eborac coinage, but if they are I will put them in contact with you.

Don