1715 fleet treasure bust

[JT]

Thread 'Recent recoveries off the North Douglas Beach trail' https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/recent-recoveries-off-the-north-douglas-beach-trail.368065/

I remember that thread. Looking back at it there’s a lot of familiar posting names, including the late Dell Winders. Chatted with him a bit years ago, he was an interesting guy. RIP.

 

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[pepperj]

Official statement regarding theft case:

1715 fleet - Queens Jewels, LLC was shocked and disappointed by this theft and has worked closely with law enforcement and the state of Florida regarding this matter. The recovered coins are now going through the proper process for legal adjudication.

1715 Fleet – Queen’s Jewels LLC is the U.S. District Courts’ custodian and exclusive salvaging company of the historic 1715 Treasure Fleet. We take our responsibilities as custodian very seriously and will always seek to enforce the laws governing these wrecks.

Seems like a statement that a damage control agency produced.

At this juncture they needed something to reassure investors, as well as all the agencies that are looking at the situation.
I certainly would be asking some hard and difficult questions.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Does your dive suit have a back flap, like a pair of overalls?

Of course not. I'm not a true criminal. But I admit that it would have been interesting to be an international jewel or art thief back in the glory days from the late 1950s to the mid 1970s. But if "dive fashion" ever becomes a thing, someone might be able to capitalize on the keister flap.

 

[Darren in NC]

Seems like a statement that a damage control agency produced.

Or from a company that has been working with authorities, and cares about being the legal custodian of the wrecks.

 

[Crow]

Old Crow is not familiar with business model.

Mel Fisher's company, Mel Fisher's Treasures, sold the rights to the 1715 Fleet shipwreck to Queens Jewels, LLC. Who in turn lease out areas for contractors who pay a fee for a lease? Who are bankrolled by investors?

Crow

 

[Blak bart]

Old Crow is not familiar with business model.

Mel Fisher's company, Mel Fisher's Treasures, sold the rights to the 1715 Fleet shipwreck to Queens Jewels, LLC. Who in turn lease out areas for contractors who pay a fee for a lease? Who are bankrolled by investors?

Crow

Pretty much how it works....unless you have your own capital and don't need the investor part of the equation.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Pretty much how it works....unless you have your own capital and don't need the investor part of the equation.

Do investors typically participate for one season at a time? As I recall, that was the Fisher Model to avoid SEC regulations.

I wrote an article about investing in sunken treasure hunting some time ago - some parts of the business probably haven't changed.

I recall one of your posts from a year or two ago that outlined what it took to be a successful diver or other participant. Most interesting.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Of course not. I'm not a true criminal. But I admit that it would have been interesting to be an international jewel or art thief back in the glory days from the late 1950s to the mid 1970s. But if "dive fashion" ever becomes a thing, someone might be able to capitalize on the keister flap.

M2: It certainly was not my intention to suggest you are a criminal - true or otherwise.

 

[Denniss]

I'm not clear on how they knew 50 coins were stolen. Isn't each coin tagged and logged. If these coins weren't tagged and logged, how did they know there were 50 of them. Did they steal tagged and logged coins, didn't turn them in?

 

[MiddenMonster]

M2: It certainly was not my intention to suggest you are a criminal - true or otherwise.

No offense taken at all. I don't have the "criminal mindset", but international jewel or art thief has a tux/hot chick glamour vibe to it. On the other hand, sunken treasure/shipwreck criminal has the thrill seeker/daredevil vibe to it. What is being described for this salting business sounds more like a common grift. Very pedestrian, and way below what the field should have to deal with. In the sunken treasure business it should be a crime like piracy when someone waylays the treasure as it's being returned to Spain. I'm sure most people could get behind that if it happened.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I'm not clear on how they knew 50 coins were stolen. Isn't each coin tagged and logged. If these coins weren't tagged and logged, how did they know there were 50 of them. Did they steal tagged and logged coins, didn't turn them in?

"Loose lips sink ships.."

 

[Crow]

Pretty much how it works....unless you have your own capital and don't need the investor part of the equation.

So any artifact coins etc had to be catalogued with relative information. And does the state get a share of the sale of coins?

Crow

 

[Red_desert]

That explains a few things... there has been an investigation going on, it wasn't just my imagination.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

So any artifact coins etc had to be catalogued with relative information. And does the state get a share of the sale of coins?

Crow

Crow: I believe there is a "division" - similar to settling up with the dive crew and investors at the end of the year. Or, pirates splitting up the loot after a successful cruise. If memory serves, the State of Florida gets first pick.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

So any artifact coins etc had to be catalogued with relative information. And does the state get a share of the sale of coins?

Crow

State gets first choice of finds, 20%.

 

[Crow]

I read in another post below.

There is one entity that holds the salvage leases on the 1715 Fleet (1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels) and all subcontractors have to sign a contract with them. John Brandon is their operations manager. The company will run a background check/credit check/etc on all involved, look at your experience and equipment and decide whether to offer a subcontract.

So 1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels charges a fee to subcontractor that passes all the checks State gets 20% 1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels gets 40% and subcontractor gets 40% From that they have cover tax, insurance fuel. repairs and maintenance costs. Plus split with any financial backers?

How long does it take to convert finds into actual revenue? Are contractors waiting months years before their finds are sold?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Being constrained by season and weather conditions. and every inflation putting pressures on these contractors. And definitely a situation that could create cash flow difficulties.

1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels gets 40% just by owning rights to the 1715 fleet shipwrecks.

So in essence if you find only 10000 thousand dollars in season you only get 4000 before feral tax, If you have a brilliant year say million you get 400000 before tax. then divide between crew operating costs, investor etc and if you have a profit keeping that as buffer to see you through the off season and weather events. To keep afloat you have to bank.

So in effect it is like franchise. 1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels gets 40% of contractors find with very little overheads. Contractor bare the operating costs but lose 60% what they find?

Certainly a labour of love in what they are doing. I cannot condone what they had done but I can sort of understand why its come about.

The end game is profit. Franchise.com suggests that the expected range of return on investment of a good franchise should be at least between 25 percent and 50 percent. Their agreement is 60 percent including the states 20% cut.

State gov gets 20% for zero risk. the lease holder gets 40% for limited risk. The contractor get 40% for all the risk and expenses.


Crow