1715 fleet treasure bust

[Blak bart]

I read in another post below.

There is one entity that holds the salvage leases on the 1715 Fleet (1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels) and all subcontractors have to sign a contract with them. John Brandon is their operations manager. The company will run a background check/credit check/etc on all involved, look at your experience and equipment and decide whether to offer a subcontract.

So 1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels charges a fee to subcontractor that passes all the checks State gets 20% 1715 Fleet-Queen's Jewels gets 40% and subcontractor gets 40% From that they have cover tax, insurance fuel. repairs and maintenance costs. Plus split with any financial backers?

How long does it take to convert finds into actual revenue? Are contractors waiting months years before their finds are sold?

Crow

John Brandon is retired now i think and sal gutt is the new director of ops.

 

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[Crow]

Yes....I think it's a case of the state making it sound much worse than it is ? I think the term theft is being used to describe a mistake in reporting finds ? But there seems to be some missing information in the articles.....50 coins, 51 coins, 101 coins, 13 missing coins, 37 siezed coins ?? All very confusing and needing more explanation....I'm certain we will here more. Either way there is no excuse, the system of reporting, cataloging, division and such has been clearly defined for years !! Planting coins seems pretty deceitful, but it's probably not the first time thats happened.

I can understand financial pressures.

The problem with planting coins to get investors it reflects badly on other Contractors trying to do the right thing. And besides it is not ethical. You have to be honest and forthwith with your investors as soon as you do some thing like that. it shows you cannot be trusted.

Trust is reciprocal thing.

Crow

 

[Blak bart]

Please take everything is say with a grain of salt....I am not certain of all this, just my thoughts ..... I have never participated officially on any 1715 fleet dive boats. I've rode along unpaid for fun that's it. I've chose to remain on the beach concerning 1715 treasure. I keep 100% for me from the beach.

Also don't forget the tax at the end of any treasure sales....if you do end up with treasure after a division, and you choose to sell it at auction, well there will be a final tax at that point also !!

 

[Blak bart]

Also, some crews are under the radar and keep a low profile.....I've been getting updates from one of these crews, and they did quite well this season on the silver, and have had zero press over it....they try hard to keep it quiet as they can, and keep plugging each season ! They need to name there boat "sneaky"

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You are required to report all finds to the state, the state has right per law to choose the pieces of their choice for their 20%. You don't accidentally forget to report 50 coins.

I worked with Eric Schmitt back in 2015 when I was working with Minelab at Kellyco..

 

[Blak bart]

You are required to report all finds to the state, the state has right per law to choose the pieces of their choice for their 20%. You don't accidentally forget to report 50 coins.

I worked with Eric Schmitt back in 2015 when I was working with Minelab at Kellyco..

Yeah I know....there really is no excuse for what's happened. Just seems almost impossible to get away with selling that many coins and not creating some math problems with the state and feds....and investors. I guess we wait for more info. Sure has caused some media attention!! Not the good kind either.

 

[Crow]

Yeah I know....there really is no excuse for what's happened. Just seems almost impossible to get away with selling that many coins and not creating some math problems with the state and feds....and investors. I guess we wait for more info. Sure has caused some media attention!! Not the good kind either.

Sadly such negative publicity falls into hands of archeologist who are against the monetization of treasure who would love nothing more than shutting down such operations.

But that said Rule of law innocent until proven guilty. We shall find out in due course.

Crow

 

[ropesfish]

Oh boy, ain't this a mess?
As lawsuit happy as this business has become, there are not all that many things that I can say without risk, so I will say this.
One boat. No others involved.
The statute on grand theft in Florida is 5 years.
I believe that if you were to ask the folks from QJ they would say that this was an isolated incident (and I believe that they are correct) that they are satisfied with the outcome (both public and private) so far and hope that justice is served in the upcoming criminal prosecution.
Some things will never come out into public view and that's just the way it works.
I will try to address some other issues in previous posts if anyone would be interested.
All the best...and remember that WAY more people see this forum that you would think, and all that we post is read by more people than you think, on both the State and private side.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Oh boy, ain't this a mess?
As lawsuit happy as this business has become, there are not all that many things that I can say without risk, so I will say this.
One boat. No others involved.
The statute on grand theft in Florida is 5 years.
I believe that if you were to ask the folks from QJ they would say that this was an isolated incident (and I believe that they are correct) that they are satisfied with the outcome (both public and private) so far and hope that justice is served in the upcoming criminal prosecution.
Some things will never come out into public view and that's just the way it works.
I will try to address some other issues in previous posts if anyone would be interested.
All the best...and remember that WAY more people see this forum that you would think, and all that we post is read by more people than you think, on both the State and private side.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Also, some crews are under the radar and keep a low profile.....I've been getting updates from one of these crews, and they did quite well this season on the silver, and have had zero press over it....they try hard to keep it quiet as they can, and keep plugging each season ! They need to name there boat "sneaky"

Capt. BB - No surprise that there is a great deal of folklore surrounding hunting for and finding lost treasure.

In some parts of the country, the gold and silver will turn to carbón if the finders are not those who are supposed to recover the plunder.

Other traditions include only hunting at night, and the requirement that all in the party must remain silent during the search...

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[robertk]

All the best...and remember that WAY more people see this forum that you would think, and all that we post is read by more people than you think, on both the State and private side.

Indeed. And that is true of every forum on the internet, even the "private" ones.

 

[MiddenMonster]

The statute on grand theft in Florida is 5 years.

As I understand it, the timer begins when the crime is discovered, not when it is committed. So while that is irrelevant in this case, If the investigation uncovers similar activity that preceded this case it will be five years from the point it is discovered.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Please take everything is say with a grain of salt....I am not certain of all this, just my thoughts ..... I have never participated officially on any 1715 fleet dive boats. I've rode along unpaid for fun that's it. I've chose to remain on the beach concerning 1715 treasure. I keep 100% for me from the beach.

Also don't forget the tax at the end of any treasure sales....if you do end up with treasure after a division, and you choose to sell it at auction, well there will be a final tax at that point also !!

When is the federal income tax due? According to KvonM's Treasure Hunter's Manual #7, it is the view of the IRS that the tax is due in the year one makes the recovery - not the year the finds are sold. Ownership is the taxable event - not the conversion of the recovery into cash.

I found this on the Internets, so I know it is correct:

"In 1957, Ermenegildo and Mary Cesarini purchased a used piano, brought it home, and spent the next seven years enjoying its music. At some point in 1964, they opened it up and discovered $4,467 inside.

"The Cesarinis argued to the IRS that the money wasn’t income, and so it should not be taxed as such. The IRS wasn’t swayed by the couple’s argument. The case went to federal [tax?] court, and the IRS won. 'Found' property and money has been considered taxable income ever since....

"Tangible property is income...[Finders] owe taxes on the fair market value...The IRS defines fair market value [FMV] as what a reasonable person would be expected to pay for an item in its current condition if neither the buyer nor seller were under any duress to make the exchange.

"The fair market value rule does not depend on whether or not you sell the found item."

Can the taxpayer deduct the costs incurred in making the find as a business expense? That would appear to depend on whether one is a full-time professional treasure hunter (then the answer is probably "Yes") or a very lucky hobbyist (then the answer is probably "No").

I do not claim to offer accounting, legal, or marital advice. Consult a knowledgeable professional if you are in the happy position of making a substantial find.

Don't be greedy - and don't turn a very good day into a very bad one.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[MiddenMonster]

"In 1957, Ermenegildo and Mary Cesarini purchased a used piano, brought it home, and spent the next seven years enjoying its music. At some point in 1964, they opened it up and discovered $4,467 inside.

If I bought a used piano the first thing I would do is have it tuned. And I would stand right there watching it being tuned.

"The Cesarinis argued to the IRS that the money wasn’t income, and so it should not be taxed as such. The IRS wasn’t swayed by the couple’s argument.

Hmmm...sounds like somebody didn't know how to keep their mouths shut. In what universe would the IRS have even needed to hear about this. In the 1960s you could have taken that money to the bank and deposited it without anyone batting an eye. It's only when drug trafficking got really big that moving money around got so cumbersome. I think that in the mid 1960s you could have probably deposited $100K in cash without any problem.

 

[ropesfish]

As I understand it, the timer begins when the crime is discovered, not when it is committed. So while that is irrelevant in this case, If the investigation uncovers similar activity that preceded this case it will be five years from the point it is discovered.

Well...no. The State HAS changed the time on a first degree felony to four years.

The 2024 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 775 GENERAL PENALTIES; REGISTRATION OF CRIMINALS View Entire Chapter 775.15 Time limitations; general time limitations; exceptions.— (1) A prosecution for a capital felony, a life felony, or a felony that resulted in a death may be commenced at any time. If the death penalty is held to be unconstitutional by the Florida Supreme Court or the United States Supreme Court, all crimes designated as capital felonies shall be considered life felonies for the purposes of this section, and prosecution for such crimes may be commenced at any time. (2) Except as otherwise provided in this section, prosecutions for other offenses are subject to the following periods of limitation: (a) A prosecution for a felony of the first degree must be commenced within 4 years after it is committed. (b) A prosecution for any other felony must be commenced within 3 years after it is committed. (c) A prosecution for a misdemeanor of the first degree must be commenced within 2 years after it is committed. (d) A prosecution for a misdemeanor of the second degree or a noncriminal violation must be commenced within 1 year after it is committed.

 

[Denniss]

I'm not clear on how they knew 50 coins were stolen. Isn't each coin tagged and logged. If these coins weren't tagged and logged, how did they know there were 50 of them. Did they steal tagged and logged coins, didn't turn them in?

I just read in the SUn Sentinel how they knew there were 101 coins, someone sent a picture to Brent from Eric Schmitt's account Could he have CC'd Brent by mistake. Wouldn't that be a kick in the cojones.

While the FWC declined an interview, it said in a follow-up email that evidence emerged in June 2024 when Eric Schmitt’s, or someone using his account, blind-copied Brent Brisben of 1715 Fleet Queens – Jewels LLC on an email containing an image of the 101 gold coins from 2015.

Brisben and his company only had 51 coins. The FWC said that Brisben then shared the image at a meeting with the FWC, the FBI and the 19th Judicial Circuit State Attorney on June 10, 2024.

New twist in $1 million gold treasure at sea: Florida looks into alleged coin theft

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission recently announced that it has recovered dozens of stolen gold coins, collectively worth more than $1 million.

www.sun-sentinel.com

 

[enrada]

Just wondering how some of you guys seem to know all the rules!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Just wondering how some of you guys seem to know all the rules!!!!!!!!!!!

Research.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Research.

Just wondering how some of you guys seem to know all the rules!!!!!!!!!!!

Successful experience. And an intense interest in avoiding legal tangles.

"Treasure is trouble" ~ Sir Robert Marx. It's a lot more trouble if you don't plan for success, as I was told by "Black Jack" Haskins.

 

[Bouviet1991]

Nossa! Você já encontrou um grande tesouro... legalmente! Por que correr o risco de outra forma? A ganância não tem limites.

True indeed...