1563 Capitana

[austu]

It would appear to me after having read all I can that the preponderance of evidence points to the Capitana going down in deep water on the open ocean. Of the 13 vessels comprising the Nueva España flota 8 made it back to Spain, 3 limped into Monte Christo, the Angel Bueno sank on the high seas, which leaves only the Capitana unaccounted for. Bonifacio’s research of original archival documents reveals a ships captain and a pilot both state they had left the Bahama Channel and were closing in on Bermuda when the hurricane hit. This pretty much seals the deal for me.

 

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[Boatlode]

??

 

[ropesfish]

Here ya go, Mike...some context from my file on Angel Bueno...

There is a nice bit in Lubos Kordac's "2nd Ed of Historic Shipwrecks of the Dominican Republic and Haiti" on pp 55-56 on the 1563 fleet as well.
I have 5 signed copies of that book direct from Lobo for sale to help raise a little money for his family and his wife's cancer treatment. I'd like to get $50 each, but we would take more...I also have 5 signed copies of his book "The Treasures of Roberto Cofresi" and one signed copy of "Tesoro Nazi" en espanol. PM if interested. They go on EBay this weekend if I have any left.

From El Pais in 2007 - in which El Angel Bueno is listed as having been found: https://www.expatica.com/es/news/country-news/Charting-Spains-sunken-treasures_151020.html

The news report from 2016: Have the 1563 wrecks of the Angel Bueno and La Concepcion been found? | FL Keys News

Here is the supporting video from Paul Robinson of The Bronze Cannon Corporation.

and another video by Bronze Cannon Corp done a few months later:

The link to the Kickstarter project that Bronze Cannon Corp tried to raise money to do a documetary on the project- with the Deep Venture (which spent 2004 to 2016 aground on an island due east of Squid Lips restaurant and marina until it was refloated by Hurricane Matthew, taken to Sebastian Inlet Marina, cut up and discarded) mysteriously used as the representative vessel: https://www.backerkit.com/projects/412614229/finding-the-treasure-of-el-angel-bueno-a-documenta

and a couple of relevant TNet posts: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/241815-oldest-wreck-us-waters.html and this at : http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/490092-about-1563s-juan-menendez-fleet.html

 

[Blak bart]

The search continues, confidence is high, mag mag mag !! Mag boat just got repowered. I lend a hand down there when I can, wish I wasnt so busy fising lately or id be down there more. Evidence is compeling, ive seen it first hand !!

 

[Vox veritas]

From which planet does this story come from?

 

[austu]

If Bronze Cannon Corp.have been searching since the sixties and these vessels are laden with treasure,surely some of it would have been found by now!

 

[Vox veritas]

If Bronze Cannon Corp.have been searching since the sixties and these vessels are laden with treasure,surely some of it would have been found by now!

What concrete evidence they have of being a ship of 1563? They have checked a list of cannons? Show of coins?

 

[Blak bart]

Im happy to be a part of it all !! Its been great learning the mags, and getting involved. It would be way out of bounds for me to say any more......so....ill just say were up and running again after an engine repower. Im an uderwater detectorist/deck hand, I fill the gaps whenever needed. I would not jeopardize a working relationship by speaking out of turn. Im sure you guys know how this works, sorry I dont speak for bronze cannon corp, I just work with them when I can. And I love it.
Happy hunting

 

[austu]

I have just watched a Bronze Cannon Corp. video on their claim that 2 of the 1563 flota sank on American Shoals in the Florida Keys. The narrator says the fleet left Habana on September 7. This piece of info is absolutely key. Other researchers say around mid August is when it left. Bonifacio’s tells us from his original document research that the captain of a Honduran ship that made lt back to Montecristi informs us that on Sept.7 after leaving the Bahama Channel they sailed into a huge storm. This timeline makes much more sense. Can anybody definitively explain this critical discrepancy?

 

[Vox veritas]

The Menendez fleet of 1563 sailed from Havana on August 13 and crossed the Strait of Florida. There were no hurricanes in the Caribbean that year and the bad weather caught the fleet at sea, bound for Bermuda.

 

[austu]

Thank you Vox Veritas for that crucial piece of information. Also the fact that the 3 surviving ships chose Montechristi as the port to make for shows how far out in the Atlantic they must have been. If they had been hit in the Florida Keys surely they would have made for Habana.

 

[Vox veritas]

This is a letter written by the famous Alvaro de Bazan from the high seas in the Azores in October 1563. The bad weather surprised Juan Mememdez's fleet "on the Bermuda". No comment!

 

[sphillips]

If the 1563 fleet did disappear around
Bermuda, will be interesting to find out what ship(s) the bronze cannons came from near American Shoals

 

[Vox veritas]

If the 1563 fleet did disappear around
Bermuda, will be interesting to find out what ship(s) the bronze cannons came from near American Shoals

It is necessary to see the cannon and its marks. There can be hundreds of shipwrecks in the Florida Keys, and then I will look at my files.

 

[captbonnie]

https://www.lavanguardia.com/local/...ologia-del-siglo-xxi-para-salir-a-la-luz.html

 

[GreenHiker]

https://www.lavanguardia.com/local/...ologia-del-siglo-xxi-para-salir-a-la-luz.html

I ran CaptHawk's article above that is in Spanish, through google translate and got the following (somewhat garbled) translation -

Sevilla, Jul 11 (EFE) -The galleons, the great ships of the Navy four or five centuries ago have a special legend around them, a very specific charm for those who seek them, but there is one that could see the light before the end of the year, made in Vizcaya, which thanks to an original formula will not only be able to refloat the ship or its contents, but to make it profitable.

And it is that five centuries of history contemplate the wreck of the Galleon "Our Lady of the Conception ", shipwrecked in 1563 off the coast of the Bahamas, which now wants to refloat or at least take performance to its load by means of the system of "Blockchain ", a record shared by connected computers where two-part transactions are registered and filed in a verifiable, permanent and anonymous manner without the need for intermediaries.

A task that is active part of the Canary based in Seville Claudio Bonifacio, together with Matthew Arnett, CEO of the company PO8, a company that already has all the permits to start diving when autumn arrives and find in the heart of the "Our Lady of conception " what the sea has kept for 480 years.

The "Blockchain " system allows "tangible assets to be exchanged in a digital market and remain in the custody of PO8 toshare with the archaeology community, while the owners of these tangible assetsare all over the World, " said Arnett, whose company is headquartered inthe Bahamas.

But first, you have to dive, and not too deep, as Claudio Bonifacio explains that the boat can be about eight meters below sea level," and that, although it facilitates the work of finding it, also makes your helmet and structure can be more deteriorated, which does not happen in ships that have been left in the seabed deeper after sinking. "

Although the initiative is a company, has an informative purpose, as everything you find is to show around the world through the work of the foundation set up.
Its leaders are in these days in Seville, in order to finalize all the details, with the attraction of having in the capital Seville the archive of the Indies, with 46,000 files that talk about the importance these ships had, of what they loaded, of their routes, and of everything aroundthe immense legacy that follows underwater.

Matthew Arnett argues that his work also has an environmental aspect, because "our commitment is with nature, with the ecosystem in which we are going to work, so that we commit to that, when we leave the area where we have worked, let's not how we find it, but better yet, restoring the navy, and even Restaurándola. "

However, it is not a cheap idea, as they have marked to raise 30 million dollars, and already have 10, with contributions that havecome from China, South Korea, Japan or the same Bahamas, which has given them exclusive permission to work, so that no company or natural person can dive at the point where the galleon is without belonging to PO8.

The objective is that in the month of November one could have rescued part of the treasure that the "Our Lady of the Conception" kept in its cellars, an immense captain that, five centuries later, can see the light thanks to this idea mixture of romanticism and technology.

 

[investigatormike]

I have done a great deal of work on this event, which has included 2 visits to the Archivo General de Indias in Spain.
I have no idea where this Florida nonsense comes from. At least 3 original witness testimonies mention that they were “80 or 90 leagues”
NW of Bermuda, (that would be on the same latitude of modern South Carolina), when the hurricane hit.
This is further confirmed by simple logic... another witness said that the hurricane swept over the Bahama Banks /Florida area during the first few days of September. The onboard witnesses said that they got hit on the 10th, over a week later. Now both hurricane and fleet moved NE from the Bahama Channel, placing the fleet one week’s sailing NE of the Bahama Channel when they got hit. This also places them in the general vicinity of Bermuda. Further, the lifeboat of the Diego Marin ship, which contained 35 men, drifted from 35deg 30’ N to 32 deg 30 N (again the latitude of Bermuda) before being picked up by the Almiranta “on the west side of Bermuda“. Yet further, the Almiranta then made for the nearest port, Montecristi on the north coast of Hispaniola, a course which took them nowhere near Florida which is far to the west and well out of the way.
After poring over these ancient documents my conclusion was that there’s a 95 % chance that the Capitana sank in deep water 200 miles (or maybe less) NW of Bermuda, and a 5% chance that she struck the Northwest Barrier Reefs of Bermuda itself.

 

[Blak bart]

I work with the bronze cannon Corp part time....sometimes diving, sometimes magging. This year has been tough and we lost paul robinson to cancer. A huge blow to the program. But now that he has passed the program moves foward. Like wise I haven't been down to work with them in over a year because of a multitude of reasons. But just talked with Zell and have been assured that everything continues as planned. 4 anchors, 8 cannons, and a multitude of other artifacts have led us to a 16th century wreck....is it the "bueno", or "concepcion" ?? One reason that I haven't dove in a year is because the wreck or main body of it is found, and being negotiated over for excavation. There are some big names in the negotiations. Is it El Angel Bueno,? Will I ever get to see it ? How long and how windy is the road to excavation ? Can an agreement with state, fed, and international entities ever be negotiated ? I've been assured I'm still included in the upcoming dives and magging for boat number 2, and should be back down magging for concepcion very soon. So without saying to much there are some other avenues of research, and a whole historical narrative already drafted that will share this information and it's sources...eventually...now we try to negotiate the excavation of what we think is el angel bueno or concepcion....when that happens then the narrative can be shared. Remember also I'm...low man on totem pole...I'm honored to work on the project, and thankful for inclusion....I try to contribute when I can and when I'm needed. I can't spill the beans, show the pictures, and distribute the video, and evidence.....there is a plan for all this, and I don't make those decisions. Just another islander who treasure hunts....I'm an underwater detectorist, and maritime history fan, and want as bad as anyone to see what exactly is buried so deeply under sand !! Especially before I die...unfortunately Paul robinson was right on the cusp of finally seeing this mystery through to excavation, and now he's gone. There are several other very significant finds over the years of magging and diving and hopefully a couple of these "other" wrecks could be excavated also....some are historical masterpieces!! Either way I can only say we have a 16th century wreck, possibly 2, and they could be the boats in question for reasons both in historical narrative, and physical evidence!! I do know there is definitely reason to believe for me and can't wait to get back on the boat !!

RIP: Paul Robinson, Bronze Cannon Corp. Thank you sir for believing in me and including me in this grand mystery!! Thank you for giving me a shot at treasure diving !! Thank you for being the most islander, conch, local I ever met !!

 

[investigatormike]

I work with the bronze cannon Corp part time....sometimes diving, sometimes magging. This year has been tough and we lost paul robinson to cancer. A huge blow to the program. But now that he has passed the program moves foward. Like wise I haven't been down to work with them in over a year because of a multitude of reasons. But just talked with Zell and have been assured that everything continues as planned. 4 anchors, 8 cannons, and a multitude of other artifacts have led us to a 16th century wreck....is it the "bueno", or "concepcion" ?? One reason that I haven't dove in a year is because the wreck or main body of it is found, and being negotiated over for excavation. There are some big names in the negotiations. Is it El Angel Bueno,? Will I ever get to see it ? How long and how windy is the road to excavation ? Can an agreement with state, fed, and international entities ever be negotiated ? I've been assured I'm still included in the upcoming dives and magging for boat number 2, and should be back down magging for concepcion very soon. So without saying to much there are some other avenues of research, and a whole historical narrative already drafted that will share this information and it's sources...eventually...now we try to negotiate the excavation of what we think is el angel bueno or concepcion....when that happens then the narrative can be shared. Remember also I'm...low man on totem pole...I'm honored to work on the project, and thankful for inclusion....I try to contribute when I can and when I'm needed. I can't spill the beans, show the pictures, and distribute the video, and evidence.....there is a plan for all this, and I don't make those decisions. Just another islander who treasure hunts....I'm an underwater detectorist, and maritime history fan, and want as bad as anyone to see what exactly is buried so deeply under sand !! Especially before I die...unfortunately Paul robinson was right on the cusp of finally seeing this mystery through to excavation, and now he's gone. There are several other very significant finds over the years of magging and diving and hopefully a couple of these "other" wrecks could be excavated also....some are historical masterpieces!! Either way I can only say we have a 16th century wreck, possibly 2, and they could be the boats in question for reasons both in historical narrative, and physical evidence!! I do know there is definitely reason to believe for me and can't wait to get back on the boat !!

RIP: Paul Robinson, Bronze Cannon Corp. Thank you sir for believing in me and including me in this grand mystery!! Thank you for giving me a shot at treasure diving !! Thank you for being the most islander, conch, local I ever met !!

It would be most interesting to see what these wrecks are. We certainly know what they are not; regarding the 1563 Menendez fleet a number of survivors formally mentioned Bermuda and gave latitudes of 35N and 32N, and of course the almiranta, having picked up the 35 survivors in the Diego Marin lifeboat "on the western side of Bermuda", then sailed south for 34 days to reach Montecristi. Then of course there are records that the hurricane swept over the Bahama Banks during the first days of August, but the fleet didn't encounter it until a week later, by which time, moving NE as these systems always do, it would be in the general vicinity of Bermuda, just as they said.
It is always exciting to find potential treasure wrecks and I will look forward to further news of these ones!

 

[investigatormike]

It would be most interesting to see what these wrecks are. We certainly know what they are not; regarding the 1563 Menendez fleet a number of survivors formally mentioned Bermuda and gave latitudes of 35N and 32N, and of course the almiranta, having picked up the 35 survivors in the Diego Marin lifeboat "on the western side of Bermuda", then sailed south for 34 days to reach Montecristi. Then of course there are records that the hurricane swept over the Bahama Banks during the first days of August, but the fleet didn't encounter it until a week later, by which time, moving NE as these systems always do, it would be in the general vicinity of Bermuda, just as they said.
It is always exciting to find potential treasure wrecks and I will look forward to further news of these ones!

Sorry this should have read, "....the hurricane swept over the Bahama Banks during the first days of September..."Starting from there and moving NE as they always do, the hurricane then took a week to catch the fleet up, on the 10th. Commonsensically they are now W or NW of Bermuda, which, in a number of archive documents, is where they said they were.