From your post "According to author Perry Eberhart, who has written about the cache, a careful treasure hunter might find the metal pots containing a fortune in gold on one of the hills that lie east of Clifford." I take it you have one of his books, I got at least one of his myself. You cracked the book open and read, at this point you have researched more than many who post their expert viewpoints on why something cant be true. A single story can take a long time to research, they can even be found to contain enough flaws that I doubt some of them. But then when the object is the study of lost treasure stories and their origins, I find it odd folks are still stuck in the mind set of thinking they have to go dig a treasure to prove it exists. The treasure story is the real treasure. A local story, someone buys a detector, someone makes money. A author includes it in his book, a copy sells he makes some money. This story above would be a good fit for a book that includes other lost treasures of that section of the state.
$100,000 in Gold 1849
- Thread starter jeff of pa
- Start date
KANACKI
Bronze Member
- Mar 1, 2015
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Hello Tiredman
Indeed at treasure legends are treasure in itself.
my apologies in advance if I was going to make a speculative hypothesis on the source of this alleged treasure? I was suspect that if the above story was true and not a Hoax? The alleged treasure buried there may of been connected to Sam Bass and Jack Davies?
Sam bass below.
At the isolated train station at Big Springs, Nebraska,
Their first train robbery took place on September 18, 1877. Capturing the station master, John Barnhart, and destroying the telegraph, they forced him to signal the eastbound express train to stop.
At 10:48 p.m., the six bandits boarded the train. Finding only $450 in the mail car safe, they then went to rob the larger safe but it had a time lock preventing it from being opened until the train reached its destination. Though they beat the express messenger brutally in an attempt to get him to open it, the messenger was unable to. However, the outlaws continued to search the train car, finding some wooden boxes, which revealed $60,000 worth of freshly minted $20 gold pieces. Why these were not in the safe is unknown. The bandits then began to systematically rob the train passengers. In the end, they escaped with the $60,000 in freshly minted gold coins, $450.00 from the mail car safe, and about $1,300.00 and four gold watches from the passengers.
Splitting the money up six ways beneath the “lone tree” east of Big Springs, the outlaws split up into pairs, each heading in a different direction.
A week after the robbery, Joel Collins and Bill Heffridge were killed by a sheriff’s posse near Buffalo Station (now Gove), Kansas and some $20,000 was recovered. Jim Berry was captured and wounded at Mexico, Missouri and died two days later. Tom Nixon disappeared carrying, according to Berry, $10,000, never to be seen again. It has long been thought that he went to Canada?
Sam Bass and Jack Davis, posing as farmers, rode south in a one horse buggy with their share of the haul stowed under the seat. Making it back to Texas, Sam Bass explained his newfound wealth as having been made in a strike in the Black Hills. He would soon start another gang, robbing trains in Texas before being killed the following year. On July 21, 1878 – his 27th birthday, he would die from gunshot wounds received in an ambush by Texas Rangers at Round Rock, Texas.
2 key points.
1. It was been suggested by many that he had hidden some of his share of the money from that robbery.
2. Fleeing south From Brig springs to Round Rock Texas Davies and Bass could of passed through Clifford fearing capture by the slow progress of the buggy. Perhaps in fear of being caught with the goods. They buried portions or all of the two shares using fake names and dates as markers on stones? Since their names was not connected to markings on the stones no one except them would understand its relevance?
Later Jack Davis, who had tried to persuade to escape with him to South America, was never seen again. Or it is supposed? Perhaps Davis fled rather waiting until a time he thought the coast was clear and waited to return to Clifford 30 years later. Or came back to clifford after Bass was killed? However I think fear of being caught and hung gave Davis second thoughts for many years?
But time Memory and seasons can change the landscape. Returning to Clifford around perhaps 1908? Davis met James Will a farmer there telling him the "1849 Sacramento story" too afraid to tell the real story as he might of been afraid of being jailed for the 1877 train robbery? Unable to recover what he buried over 30 years maybe Davis went back east disappointed or rich?
The story is we hear today is what James Will recalled from a short conversation of man he met 20 odd years before in 1935 and the names found on stones near by by other farmers working the land there?
If that was the case and my hypothesis is correct?
Base on current gold prices and each of the Bandits share 500 20 dollar gold coins worth on present melt price alone $1539.00 each share of the looted coins could be worth at least $769500.00 which if there is two share one each from Davis and Bass it could be worth $1539000.00. Please note that is speculative value based on melt value. Not collectors numeric value.
That said this is all speculative. Even in the remotest chance coins was actually found it would next to impossible to comprehensively prove the cache was from Davis and Bass. Regardless of even if the dates on the coins did not exceed 1877.
So if I had some time and passing by Clifford and opportunity arose to have permission off land owners and a chance to detect I would not sneer at the opportunity.
Walking in footsteps of forgotten history who could be a better treasure than that.
Kanacki
Indeed at treasure legends are treasure in itself.
my apologies in advance if I was going to make a speculative hypothesis on the source of this alleged treasure? I was suspect that if the above story was true and not a Hoax? The alleged treasure buried there may of been connected to Sam Bass and Jack Davies?
Sam bass below.
At the isolated train station at Big Springs, Nebraska,
Their first train robbery took place on September 18, 1877. Capturing the station master, John Barnhart, and destroying the telegraph, they forced him to signal the eastbound express train to stop.
At 10:48 p.m., the six bandits boarded the train. Finding only $450 in the mail car safe, they then went to rob the larger safe but it had a time lock preventing it from being opened until the train reached its destination. Though they beat the express messenger brutally in an attempt to get him to open it, the messenger was unable to. However, the outlaws continued to search the train car, finding some wooden boxes, which revealed $60,000 worth of freshly minted $20 gold pieces. Why these were not in the safe is unknown. The bandits then began to systematically rob the train passengers. In the end, they escaped with the $60,000 in freshly minted gold coins, $450.00 from the mail car safe, and about $1,300.00 and four gold watches from the passengers.
Splitting the money up six ways beneath the “lone tree” east of Big Springs, the outlaws split up into pairs, each heading in a different direction.
A week after the robbery, Joel Collins and Bill Heffridge were killed by a sheriff’s posse near Buffalo Station (now Gove), Kansas and some $20,000 was recovered. Jim Berry was captured and wounded at Mexico, Missouri and died two days later. Tom Nixon disappeared carrying, according to Berry, $10,000, never to be seen again. It has long been thought that he went to Canada?
Sam Bass and Jack Davis, posing as farmers, rode south in a one horse buggy with their share of the haul stowed under the seat. Making it back to Texas, Sam Bass explained his newfound wealth as having been made in a strike in the Black Hills. He would soon start another gang, robbing trains in Texas before being killed the following year. On July 21, 1878 – his 27th birthday, he would die from gunshot wounds received in an ambush by Texas Rangers at Round Rock, Texas.
2 key points.
1. It was been suggested by many that he had hidden some of his share of the money from that robbery.
2. Fleeing south From Brig springs to Round Rock Texas Davies and Bass could of passed through Clifford fearing capture by the slow progress of the buggy. Perhaps in fear of being caught with the goods. They buried portions or all of the two shares using fake names and dates as markers on stones? Since their names was not connected to markings on the stones no one except them would understand its relevance?
Later Jack Davis, who had tried to persuade to escape with him to South America, was never seen again. Or it is supposed? Perhaps Davis fled rather waiting until a time he thought the coast was clear and waited to return to Clifford 30 years later. Or came back to clifford after Bass was killed? However I think fear of being caught and hung gave Davis second thoughts for many years?
But time Memory and seasons can change the landscape. Returning to Clifford around perhaps 1908? Davis met James Will a farmer there telling him the "1849 Sacramento story" too afraid to tell the real story as he might of been afraid of being jailed for the 1877 train robbery? Unable to recover what he buried over 30 years maybe Davis went back east disappointed or rich?
The story is we hear today is what James Will recalled from a short conversation of man he met 20 odd years before in 1935 and the names found on stones near by by other farmers working the land there?
If that was the case and my hypothesis is correct?
Base on current gold prices and each of the Bandits share 500 20 dollar gold coins worth on present melt price alone $1539.00 each share of the looted coins could be worth at least $769500.00 which if there is two share one each from Davis and Bass it could be worth $1539000.00. Please note that is speculative value based on melt value. Not collectors numeric value.
That said this is all speculative. Even in the remotest chance coins was actually found it would next to impossible to comprehensively prove the cache was from Davis and Bass. Regardless of even if the dates on the coins did not exceed 1877.
So if I had some time and passing by Clifford and opportunity arose to have permission off land owners and a chance to detect I would not sneer at the opportunity.
Walking in footsteps of forgotten history who could be a better treasure than that.
Kanacki
Last edited:
KANACKI
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- Mar 1, 2015
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Now looking through the eyes of entrepreneur if the farmland around Clifford is unproductive. In region not very economically diverse. Or really interesting for tourists? The small town of Hugo 8 miles away up the road could benefit from increased traffic visiting the area. As you can see Clifford virtually does not exist anymore below but the roads do.
It would be easy to make a road side parking off the hwy and a sign posted enter into free metal detecting park or small paying permit with basic rules and sign posted story of this treasure legend, Our course all services are up the road a few miles in Hugo. Gas station, Road side diners, bars, RV parks , motels, super market etc....Could all benefit from increased traffic.
The park could be marketed in FWD ARV magazines, tourism blogs local and interstate news across the country etc...Aiming at the retired grey nomad market. Specifically suggesting their may be over million up for grabs for a lucky detector search for. Promoting the spirit of pioneers and spirit of adventure will at the same time not feeling like they are breaking any laws.
Now the landholder would have to be compensated so if the businesses in town increase their business they would have to pay small levy to the landholder for increased business. or charge detectorists a modest fee for a permit. If it could be publicized in the national press it could draw much tourist dollars into the town increasing employment etc.. Benefiting the local micro economy.
Its not an new concept Gold field Arizona has been riding off the back of the lost Dutchman mine story for years cashing in its history for the tourist buck..
Kanacki
It would be easy to make a road side parking off the hwy and a sign posted enter into free metal detecting park or small paying permit with basic rules and sign posted story of this treasure legend, Our course all services are up the road a few miles in Hugo. Gas station, Road side diners, bars, RV parks , motels, super market etc....Could all benefit from increased traffic.
The park could be marketed in FWD ARV magazines, tourism blogs local and interstate news across the country etc...Aiming at the retired grey nomad market. Specifically suggesting their may be over million up for grabs for a lucky detector search for. Promoting the spirit of pioneers and spirit of adventure will at the same time not feeling like they are breaking any laws.
Now the landholder would have to be compensated so if the businesses in town increase their business they would have to pay small levy to the landholder for increased business. or charge detectorists a modest fee for a permit. If it could be publicized in the national press it could draw much tourist dollars into the town increasing employment etc.. Benefiting the local micro economy.
Its not an new concept Gold field Arizona has been riding off the back of the lost Dutchman mine story for years cashing in its history for the tourist buck..
Kanacki
Last edited:
HonkeytonkMan
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- Jul 29, 2020
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Something doesn't sound right. 8 robbers, someone took time enough to count but not enough time to follow. The story seems contrived. You wouldn't pack that much gold and "TAKE IT TO COLORADO". If the story is real, they would of headed to San Francisco, Nevada maybe. And you wouldn't leave a hand drawn stone marker where you buried gold.
"1935" sounds like somebody is trying to sell newspapers.
Who knows their maybe a little bit of accurate information in any of the stories about some robbery. It's the game of Telephone.
I personally like to take a big dump and piss on where I bury my gold. Maybe pack some horse **** on top. It's a natural repellent.
Look for the Petrified Turds
"1935" sounds like somebody is trying to sell newspapers.
Who knows their maybe a little bit of accurate information in any of the stories about some robbery. It's the game of Telephone.
I personally like to take a big dump and piss on where I bury my gold. Maybe pack some horse **** on top. It's a natural repellent.
Look for the Petrified Turds
Last edited:
Honest Samuel
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Good luck to those seeking these treasures.
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