Santa Catalina Mtns, Az. Rock Marker?

[Ed144]

Hello, I've been doing a lot of hiking in the Santa Catalina Mtns near Tucson, following ancient Native American trails. I've been following old trail markers for years while hiking and I find the trail markers in Arizona very distinct and easy to follow. Last outing I noticed this marker which seems unlike any others. This boulder was right on the trail, on the south side. The trail seems to have two ages to the marker with one being very old using larger rocks, while newer rock pile markers have been added at a much later date. The pile of rocks on top was typical of the trail markers I think are newer. I never reached the end of the trail I was following. It was headed directly up the west slope of the Catalina Mtns in difficult terrain. I'm hoping to take an over-night trip along the trail and see what is further along it. Are the grooves in the boulder man made or natural? They seem to be very old. Thanks for any opinions. Ed, Tucson.

 

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[sdcfia]

Hello, I've been doing a lot of hiking in the Santa Catalina Mtns near Tucson, following ancient Native American trails. I've been following old trail markers for years while hiking and I find the trail markers in Arizona very distinct and easy to follow. Last outing I noticed this marker which seems unlike any others. This boulder was right on the trail, on the south side. The trail seems to have two ages to the marker with one being very old using larger rocks, while newer rock pile markers have been added at a much later date. The pile of rocks on top was typical of the trail markers I think are newer. I never reached the end of the trail I was following. It was headed directly up the west slope of the Catalina Mtns in difficult terrain. I'm hoping to take an over-night trip along the trail and see what is further along it. Are the grooves in the boulder man made or natural? They seem to be very old. Thanks for any opinions. Ed, Tucson.

Since the boulder is right on the trail, chances are this is indeed a trail marker. The stacked rocks confirm this. They are likely quite recent, as small stacks like this typically don't stand long, due to weather, animals, wind, etc. My girlfriend builds cairns like this all the time when we're hiking. They're usually down after a few months. Larger rocks would last longer of course.

The grooves may or may not be man made, so it's possible that they help mark the trail too. If they are, who made them? Hard to say. Hiker, hunter, cowboy, you name it. Since you're posting on a Treasure Marks/Signs thread, I imagine you're hoping a "Spanish miner" did it. That heart-shaped eroded area below the grooves may be the confirmation bias needed to spur you on. Good luck.

 

[sdcfia]

Oy mashugana, yada, yada, ...

Ad hominem your only trick? Why not just stay on track and perform your own dog-and-pony show on the guy's rock? And by the way, your own cognitive dissonance definition is spot on.

Dear Mister Fantasy play us a tune
Something to make us all happy
Do anything take us out of this gloom
Sing a song, play guitar
Make it snappy
You are the one who can make us all laugh
But doing that you break out in tears
Please don't be sad if it was a straight mind you had
We wouldn't have known you all these years.

(Steve Winwood, et al)

 

[cyzak]

Ad hominem your only trick? Why not just stay on track and perform your own dog-and-pony show on the guy's rock? And by the way, your own cognitive dissonance definition is spot on.

Dear Mister Fantasy play us a tune
Something to make us all happy
Do anything take us out of this gloom
Sing a song, play guitar
Make it snappy
You are the one who can make us all laugh
But doing that you break out in tears
Please don't be sad if it was a straight mind you had
We wouldn't have known you all these years.

(Steve Winwood, et al)

 

[Tnmountains]

Listo can not reply he has a few weeks off. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

To the OP the groves in the boulder are most likely natural and it seems to be a common theme for people to stack rocks on hiking trails.
Good luck.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

I think the grooves are man made. It looks like in the one photo that there is a old irrigation ditch. Should be a really good spot to hike and photo more.

 

[Ed144]

More photos

I think the grooves are man made. It looks like in the one photo that there is a old irrigation ditch. Should be a really good spot to hike and photo more.

Markers at a trail intersection. Remains of a very old trail.

 

[Phil]

My vote is recently stacked rocks, and natural marks.

Very interesting hobby. How do you identify Native American trail markers?

I've read about bent trees back East, but know nothing about markers on the West coast.

 

[sdcfia]

Markers at a trail intersection. Remains of a very old trail.

It's sometimes a challenge to figure out why monumented trails exist, but in the mountains they usually mark the easiest routes from one place to another. Your second photo indicates that the trail is still active - it's not overgrown back to nature - so you might assume animals and hikers are keeping it clear, at least the part you've seen. Hard to say if it's a "very old" marked trail, but if it is, your plan of following it to the end may help satisfy your curiosity.

 

[cyzak]

My vote is recently stacked rocks, and natural marks.

Very interesting hobby. How do you identify Native American trail markers?

I've read about bent trees back East, but know nothing about markers on the West coast.

[video]https://www.desertusa.com/desert-trails/native-americans-trails.html[/video] Here is a good explanation.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Markers at a trail intersection. Remains of a very old trail.

Interesting photo, thanks for showing it and the info. Looking forward to seeing and hearing what you find and your thoughts on who, why, time frame ?. That large rock with your poles looks like it has symbols. Kinda looks like it could be a Aries symbol? It looks like a lot of black sands mixed in there as well, maybe silver, gold rich?

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Markers at a trail intersection. Remains of a very old trail.
View attachment 1944972View attachment 1944973

I'm afraid I can't help you with your 'Trail Markers', I tend to agree with Sdcfia, Phil, and Tnmountains. But on the flip side, as an admirer of local flora & fauna I see some nice examples in your first pic.

Behind the fairly recent slide/runoff debri and winding through the rocks I see Ipomoea barbatisepala vines - Canyon Morning glory, a Southeastern Arizona Wildflower.

The green you're seeing on the boulder next to your staff is Foliose Lichen, doubtful on being a "Symbol", though at a glance it does resemble the Aries sign.

Seeing as you label this trail as an "Ancient Indian Trail", you might be interested to learn that the Morning Glory was greatly respected by the ancient Mayans, Aztecs and Native American tribes of Mexico for the spiritual properties it was believed to possess. The seeds were used for vision quests and to communicate with the gods because of their psychoactive properties. The Aztecs believed that plants had spirits and certain plants, like peyote, salvia, datura and morning glory, had special spirits that could directly communicate with the gods. Similarly, the Chental and Mazatec Indian tribes believed that a highly evolved spirit lived in morning glories.

The seeds of morning glory were specially prepared and given to high priests or shamans to produce visions and allow them to communicate with the gods. One ancient recipe specifically states that 26 seeds were to be ground by a virgin between 10-15 years old, then mixed with water and given to a shaman. The hallucinations these seeds would trigger were considered communicating with the divine.

DO NOT TRY THIS. Morning glory seeds contain toxins that can make you violently ill, and could kill. In fact, eating morning glory seeds is illegal in most parts of the world.

Now, is there a connection to your Trail? Probably not, they naturally grow wild in Southeast Arizona. But who says you can't enjoy natures gifts and learn a little something along the way. As a good friend of mine always says, "It's the Journey, not the Destination".


Happy Trails & Have a Good'un.

 

[sdcfia]

... Seeing as you label this trail as an "Ancient Indian Trail", you might be interested to learn that the Morning Glory was greatly respected by the ancient Mayans, Aztecs and Native American tribes of Mexico for the spiritual properties it was believed to possess. The seeds were used for vision quests and to communicate with the gods because of their psychoactive properties. The Aztecs believed that plants had spirits and certain plants, like peyote, salvia, datura and morning glory, had special spirits that could directly communicate with the gods. Similarly, the Chental and Mazatec Indian tribes believed that a highly evolved spirit lived in morning glories.

The seeds of morning glory were specially prepared and given to high priests or shamans to produce visions and allow them to communicate with the gods. One ancient recipe specifically states that 26 seeds were to be ground by a virgin between 10-15 years old, then mixed with water and given to a shaman. The hallucinations these seeds would trigger were considered communicating with the divine.

DO NOT TRY THIS. Morning glory seeds contain toxins that can make you violently ill, and could kill. In fact, eating morning glory seeds is illegal in most parts of the world.

Now, is there a connection to your Trail? Probably not, they naturally grow wild in Southeast Arizona. But who says you can't enjoy natures gifts and learn a little something along the way. As a good friend of mine always says, "It's the Journey, not the Destination".


Happy Trails & Have a Good'un.

Ha ha. If I received a spiritual blessing for every Morning Glory that grows in my yard, I'd be at least a demi-god by now. As you say, many plants contain alkaloids that alter consciousness, but some definitely ought to be avoided. Datura, a common roadside plant in the Southwest, is one.

My advice to Ed144 is to find the end of the trail and see what's there.

Datura. Admire, but leave alone.

 

[Secret squirl]

Similar stuff can be found and seen in Tuscon.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Ha ha. If I received a spiritual blessing for every Morning Glory that grows in my yard, I'd be at least a demi-god by now. As you say, many plants contain alkaloids that alter consciousness, but some definitely ought to be avoided. Datura, a common roadside plant in the Southwest, is one.

My advice to Ed144 is to find the end of the trail and see what's there.

Datura. Admire, but leave alone.

Good advice, on both counts.

The true Spiritual Blessing of a Morning Glory is that their beauty heralds the waking of another day spent above ground. At my age, I'll take all the Blessings I can get. But I also know that while the blossoms may be a feast for the eyes, both the Morning Glory and Datura are toxic to the body.

P.S. Some would say this forum is mind altering, are you sure you're not a demi God?

 

[sdcfia]

Good advice, on both counts.

The true Spiritual Blessing of a Morning Glory is that their beauty heralds the waking of another day spent above ground. At my age, I'll take all the Blessings I can get. But I also know that while the blossoms may be a feast for the eyes, both the Morning Glory and Datura are toxic to the body.

P.S. Some would say this forum is mind altering, are you sure you're not a demi God?

Yeah, pretty sure. I'm just another of Plato's "too-diluted admixture" crowd, like all the rest of us. You know - the easily manipulated slave race.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Yeah, pretty sure. I'm just another of Plato's "too-diluted admixture" crowd, like all the rest of us. You know - the easily manipulated slave race.

Hmm, sorry to hear that. (And yes, I recognize and appreciate your sarcasm). Just some unsolicited advice, fwiw.

When we live without purpose, we become what we consume. Garbage in, garbage out. In effect, we become 'slave' to our own mind. "Race" is one of many constructs of the mind.

When we learn to live outside that confinement, when we recognize the blessing in the beauty of a morning glory, is when we find true Freedom.

The OP seems to have found a Purpose, even if it may only be a temporary one. My only advice was to recognize some blessings along the way. Shed the chains of what 'should be', and recognize & appreciate 'what is'.

To your reply I can only offer this.....Demi gods are a construct. So is Race. There is no "diluted admixture" outside that construct. If you don't step away from that buffet, What you accept is what will continue.

Best Wishes to Both on your Journeys.

Have a Good'un.