Trail Signs and Monuments-Spanish or Somebody Else

M

mdog

Silver Member
Mar 22, 2011
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Hello Tnet members. I joined Tnet about eight years ago looking for information about some unusual carvings I had found close to my home in Iowa. It didn't take me long to find the Treasure Marks/Signs forum and to discover that there was a lively debate about the meaning of certain rock formations and carvings that were to be found along trails going to or from gold or silver producing areas. Some carvings or rock monuments led the way to the mining areas and some marked cache spots along the trail. More than a few of our members had spent countless hours in the field and were finding similar markers in different areas of the country, mostly in the west and southwest. The debate seemed to be about who put the markers there and was there a set of King of Spain rules that required that all of these markers were to be constructed and placed in a specific manner. Some searchers believe that the King of Spain did insist on organized placement of these markers and others say that there is no proof of these rules and the markers were placed by some other group.

Sandy1 has a very excellent thread in this forum that describes and teaches how to find a cache site and locate the vault. This is what treasure hunters do, find the treasure, dig it up. However, I'm not interested in digging up the treasure, I'm interested in the when, where, who and how of these places and the trails they are found along. If the trails are bullion trails, I want to know if the bullion is going toward Mexico or coming out of Mexico. I want to know what river or ocean the trails are heading for. I want to know if the big rock monuments were made by Europeans or some pre-Columbian native civilization.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to accumulate and share information. I know there are many Tnet members who can't get into the field, for one reason or another, so I'm hoping to get you involved in the research and maybe we can have some fun and learn a little history.
 

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I don't think so.
 

Mdog, in your words you said: I want to know if the big rock monuments were made by Europeans or some pre-Columbian native civilization.
If you REALLY want the truth read a King James Bible text in Genesis 6:4. The key words look like this --
THE EARTH -- meaning there were folks here in the U S A before the great flood of Noah.
The giants and their plans and doings were ( in my opinion ) the reason for the disappearance of the Mayans, and possibly
other people as well. All those stone monuments found all over the earth is no big mystery. That is, if you believe what GOD said in the scriptures.
I am not placing this on your thread for argument . Each person has the right to what he/she believes.
Have a great weekend -- :coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:
 

elh said:
Mdog, in your words you said: I want to know if the big rock monuments were made by Europeans or some pre-Columbian native civilization.
If you REALLY want the truth read a King James Bible text in Genesis 6:4. The key words look like this --
THE EARTH -- meaning there were folks here in the U S A before the great flood of Noah.
The giants and their plans and doings were ( in my opinion ) the reason for the disappearance of the Mayans, and possibly
other people as well. All those stone monuments found all over the earth is no big mystery. That is, if you believe what GOD said in the scriptures.
I am not placing this on your thread for argument . Each person has the right to what he/she believes.
Have a great weekend -- :coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:
Click to expand...

Thanks Elh. It’s funny that you brought that up, right away. I’ve been thinking that, in order to cover all bases, we should look at Native American stories. In my research, I’ve found that several tribes mention fighting giants and killing them all.

When the French missionaries started moving west, from Quebec, they found a large stone, shaped like an animal, that the Native Americans paid homage to.

I hope to explore Native American stories as part of our research.
 

Random ramblings from me per usual mdog.

For "newcomers" exploring or trying to cover distance , finding themselves on native trails would be no surprise.
Your E.-W. -S.E. trails would see more traffic in winter simply by avoiding colder areas to the North.
Perhaps weather of other sorts farther South played a role during migrations /travel for trade /nomadic hunting ect. Dodging hurricane season or oppressive heat as well.
The most used becoming the most worn and common.

Even today many paved routes follow old ones. They were often well chosen for economy of travel. With consideration for multiple aspects of logistics.

Those trails once precious metal extraction became a more steady goal would have trails leaving them.
Where before terrain and geography had trails of least resistance ,water and camp places , some mining areas contrasted in difficulty and direction of purpose.

Marking the turn offs well would save wasted travel or worse.....
 

Good idea for a thread, dog. Preliminary thoughts:

1) Trail markers, cairns, petroglyphs, manipulated trees, et al. There are many sources for these, nearly all of them, percentage wise, coming from Native Americans, settlers, pioneers, trappers, hunters, surveyors, ranchers, hikers, hippies, miners, and others, created for a variety of non-treasure related reasons. The Native petroglyphs are a topic unto themselves, with dating and interpretation being highly controversial, mostly unresolved and probably beyond the immediate scope of this thread. It is alleged by me and others that non-natives have disguised their own carvings to "look Indian" in some cases.

2) King's Code. This theory begins with the Kenworthy books, which I feel is disinformation, whether intentional or not. Nobody, including Kenworthy, has provided this alleged Spanish Archives document for scrutiny. If Kenworthy's agent was able to access it, why wasn't anyone before him or since able to? If this code was genuine and mandated by the King, then hundreds of mining contractors would have had copies of it and it would have been common knowledge. We'd have access to it.

If it was a "secret code" and the source of waybills to dozens of buried treasure sites in the USA, as is alleged, then many questions arise. Why haven't copies surfaced from the dozens privy to it? Why would these secret agents leave all this wealth behind instead of returning home with it? If the miners cached it for later retrieval, why assume they didn't come back for it? I don't believe there is such a secret King's Code.

3) Pareidolia. It's a human phenomenon that people see familiar forms in natural objects - clouds, rocks, shadows, etc. Works with sounds too. We all do it to some extent. Some adamantly see Jesus's face on a tortilla and swear it's a message from God while others stare and stare and never see anything. Maybe the latter are infidels.

The question re treasure hunting boils down to this: if you see a familiar shape, was it caused naturally or was the environment manipulated by humans to create the effect? Some eager proponents allege entire mountains have been reshaped in order to cast a shadow on certain days that resemble the silhouette of a bird, king, et al. This is foolishness IMO and indicates that the person has no idea what would be required to accomplish such a task. That's the extreme case, but one often repeated in many different locations.

In a reality-based world, here's how pareidolia can and has been used. An observer notices that a certain natural landmark, such as a rock formation, bears a striking resemblance to some object (a face when the lighting is right, or a human-shaped figure on the skyline, etc). Most people are easily able to identify the resemblance, and it becomes a trail marker.

Another example. It's noticed that a certain natural terrain characteristic frequently casts a shadow on a rock outcropping that looks exactly like a human face profile - with browline, nose, chin, etc. This is a great spot to carve a petroglyph, say at the tip of the nose. The Natives did a lot of this - found a natural shadow and carved a symbol there. It's alleged that Europeans used the same trick once in a while, although this would be a rare occurrence IMO.

4) The Ancients. My big picture is that there was a world-wide advanced civilization on earth that was totally destroyed by the cataclysm that occurred about 12,000 years ago. Suspicious0bservers, Diehold Foundation, Mystery History and other YouTube channels are very much on top of this subject for those who are interested.

In the Post-Diluvian period, I agree North America has quite likely been visited by a number of Old World Pre-Columbians. Chinese, Norse, Mediterraneans, and others. Giants? Yes, they were here too, I suspect. You ought to see and hear what they've found in Sardinia and other world-wide locations regarding giants. For reasons of population- and thought-control, I guess, I suspect that evidence that supports these contrarian beliefs is methodically destroyed, withheld, debunked and generally denied by the powers-that-be. Most people accept the world history narrative in place today because that's all they've ever known, even though much of it is likely lies. It's what we have.

Regarding the treasure aspect, I believe that there are precious metals caches in America that have been linked to some of these ancient civilizations. The links are based on Old World symbology, whether obvious or imagined. Be careful here because the use of this sort of symbology is a tactic attributed to the Organization lately referred to as the KGC, OAK, et al. in order to confuse people. As you know, it's my working model that most of the alleged Spanish or Ancient caches are in fact gold bullion hoards hidden by the elite following the Gold Act of 1933.

5) Sandy1. No comment.
 

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Native stuff can be delved upon by locale.
Often ceremonial but also documenting things as they were perceived at the time. Using such sites as you mention as landmarks , certainly doable.
More , certain places were not to be approached. While others only with caution and sacrifices. Waters were seldom trusted. But necessary at the same time.
A spirit cave was safe from certain natives.
It's whereabouts known by others though meant a place things would be left alone. With exception of an occasional arrow launched from a distance.

From Agawa area. No treasure signs though. (?)
download.jpg
https://albinger.me/2014/08/02/the-anishinaabe-rock-paintings-of-agawa-rock-a-quick-guide/
 

Those are nice paintings - from the 17th and 18th centuries according to the experts. That dragon-looking creature is assumed to be mythical by the pros, I guess, but for all we know, the thing existed in days of yore. The only one who knows for certain what the painting means is the guy who created it.
 

sdcfia said:
Those are nice paintings - from the 17th and 18th centuries according to the experts. That dragon-looking creature is assumed to be mythical by the pros, I guess, but for all we know, the thing existed in days of yore. The only one who knows for certain what the painting means is the guy who created it.
Click to expand...

It is duplicated in multiple accounts in the Northern regions.
A Manitou , but a specific one of "mythology" that was/is very real to some. To multiple nations in the region. Their range of travel would affect the range of it's existence being shared.
One that explained sudden storm when on the water. Or just aggressive suddenly water.
Jesuit (?) account told of some sacrifices made into the water of bound living creatures.. And of a stone idol being offered gifts. It being near water but recollection of mine does not know if it was water related Manitou being considered.
 

Some excellent posts, guys. Sdcfia, I would like to hit everything on your list and I will include some information Sandy1 gave us about the Colorado River. For the section on pareidolia, I'm gonna try a little climbing and see if I can get close enough to a perfect shadow hawk head and look for evidence of chiseling.

RC, some excellent information about the old trails and what might be found along them as far as petroglyphs and maybe even some sacred rocks. That story about the stone idol is the one I was thinking of. If I remember right, I think the Jesuits broke the rock up and threw the parts into the river.

Tonight, I'm going to post a map that shows a network of trails that extends from the Detroit, Michigan area to Santa Fe and a northern fork that goes up to the Yellowstone area. These started out as game trails and were eventually used by the Native Americans.
 

The map shows the Sauk Trail in red, an unamed trail in yellow, the Dragoon Trace in green, The Santa Fe Trail in brown and an unnamed trail in purple. When you get to Detroit, it's a boat ride to Quebec.

This map shows all kinds of trade opportunities from the southwest clear up to Canada. One section of this trail became a section of railroad used to ship bullion from Virginia City, Nevada to New York City.

[FONT=&quot]After the completion of the railroad, Mr. Reiner was given a position as express messenger on one of the trains. "Many times," said the veteran express messenger, "I have literally had the car floor paved with gold and silver, over which I walked in doing my work. We had carried lots of gold and silver bars east from Virginia City, in Nevada. In order that, the weight should be evenly distributed the bars were spread like paving bricks all over the car floor. The following description, written by a reporter from one of the Council Bluffs papers while Mr. Reiner was yet at Boone, gives a description of the work of carrying the bullion:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
"While viewing the scenes at the transfer yesterday afternoon, we boarded W. F. Reiner's Northwestern express car and beheld a scene that caused our hump of inquisitiveness to jump. Mr. Reiner is a messenger of the American Merchants Union Express company, and will have served in his present position and on his present route seven years in November next. He lives in Boone. On the floor of his car were sixty-seven gold and silver bricks. That is, each brick was composed of gold and silver in compound. In some of them, silver predominated—in value. They resemble silver almost entirely in color. They are of somewhat irregular sizes, though nearly every one of them weighs more than one hundred pounds. Some of them were much more refined than the others. The amount of gold and silver in each one is stamped on the face or top, in different lines, and the total value of the brick is added in a third line. The value of each metal is marked, even to a cent. How those values can be so accurately determined in a compound brick is beyond our knowledge. Fifty-seven of those bricks which we yesterday saw, were worth $101,950.80. The remaining eleven were worth $15,077.57. They were mostly from Virginia City and are being taken to New York. Mr. Reiner informed us also that these bricks are carried only by the Northwestern and Rock Island roads. On some days he has had as many as 160 of them in his car. They are taken east nearly every day."[/FONT]​
​
 

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The Sauk through Detroit leads to Georgian Bay/Huronia. A nucleus at one time. Warfare divided Northern and Southern routes following Euro influence , But routes existed both ends prior. I lack records of prior wars offhand , but it seems there were movements related prior contact too.
The Algonquian from the great lakes traveled ...And some were alleged to be in Iowa pre-contact.
Tying your pictured trails to the great lakes region and extended to the East coast seems easy enough by following Algonquian movement.
Also the Shore Trail connecting to others including the Saulk. (https://thumbwind.com/2018/12/03/shore-indian-trail-hulls-trace/).

The boundary line between Canada and the U.S. heading East is a good (well perceived good) water route.

Connected to your map , that is a lot of ground covered on the Southern end , and does not include the far Northern routes....

(Pre-contact map of Algonquian language. No , I don't know how data was established.)
375px-Algic_langs.png
 

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This map shows a red dot on the Mississippi River that is located on the network of trails. There were thousands of Hopewell mounds, along this section of river, that date back 2000 years. This area was an important location in the Hopewell trading network. This part of the Mississippi was loaded with freshwater pearls. From the north, there was lead from the ancient mines near Dubuque. Copper from the Lake Superior region came south from Wisconsin, down the Rock River. Pipestone came from Minnesota and obsidian from the Yellowstone region in Wyoming. There were also north/south trails that made this area more valuable as a trading center.

Havana Hopewell trade.jpg
 

releventchair said:
The Sauk through Detroit leads to Georgian Bay/Huronia. A nucleus at one time. Warfare divided Northern and Southern routes following Euro influence , But routes existed both ends prior. I lack records of prior wars offhand , but it seems there were movements related prior contact too.
The Algonquian from the great lakes traveled ...And some were alleged to be in Iowa pre-contact.
Tying your pictured trails to the great lakes region and extended to the East coast seems easy enough by following Algonquian movement.

The boundary line between Canada and the U.S. heading East is a good (well perceived good) water route.
Connected to your map , that is a lot of ground covered...

View attachment 1670188
Click to expand...

It does cover a lot of ground and I'd like to see where it goes south from Santa Fe.
 

mdog said:
...Mr. Reiner informed us also that these bricks are carried only by the Northwestern and Rock Island roads. On some days he has had as many as 160 of them in his car. They are taken east nearly every day."
Click to expand...

I rode the Rock Island from Des Moines to Chicago once when I was a teenager. Reiner's endless cars of bullion were traveling pretty close to your town, weren't they dog? I wonder if any of them got sidetracked your way?
 

sdcfia said:
I rode the Rock Island from Des Moines to Chicago once when I was a teenager. Reiner's endless cars of bullion were traveling pretty close to your town, weren't they dog? I wonder if any of them got sidetracked your way?
Click to expand...

When I read this article, it reminded me of one of our Tnet posters who claimed that there were vault sites set up at intervals along the railroad tracks, in Iowa.

It would have to be an inside job. I wonder who was doing the counting and weighing at the beginning and end of the shipment.
 

Tonight, I have been posting about Native American trade routes. Native American traders had the same requirements for survival as any other trader. They needed food and water as well as campsites they could defend. They had to move quickly from one village to the next. They would probably need permanent markers to guide them from one place to another. Markers could have been bent trees, stones placed at important spots along a trail or maybe even petroglyphs to show the way. When the Europeans moved into a region, they might have learned how to find these signs and use the trade trails in the same manner as the Native Americans. Maybe they learned how to put their own marks along the trails to satisfy their own needs.
 

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