Don in SJ
Silver Member
- May 20, 2005
- 4,932
- 837
- Detector(s) used
- MINELAB SE Pro
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
A Colonial/Draped Bust/Classic Head HALF Cent- All in ONE COIN-UPDATED
Yesterday I went back to a new homestead I found only 4 early 1800 era buttons at last week. I started off with a almost good copper reading, and when I looked at it, I thought it was a large button at first, especially since its tone and visual ID were a tad low for a good large copper. But after looking at it a bit, I thought perhaps since it had what appeared to be a rim, that it was a King George I copper. So, put it in my envelope and continued hunting.
I got a few lead and pewter unknowns, then 3 more buttons, one a very nice plain button but had the great backmark with the crown on it. I have found quite a few like this over the years, and always enjoy finding them.
When I got home I took some photographs after I tried cleaning the coin in peroxide, and it came out as in the photos attached. I have since then applied some wax, which in person, I can see the details much better, but dang if I can get a better photograph so, will have to go with my intially cleaned photos for identifying this coin.
After spending perhaps 8 or more hours looking at the coin and photos, I have reached the conclusion that I have a coin, but will never know what to call it.
Here is what all I think this coin is and what happened to it.
The copper appears to be a possible King George III counterfeit planchet, due to the size and weight, oh, the size is 27.5mm and it weighs 96.5 grains. I base this assumption on the size and the fact that I believe I see a raised date on the rim of the Obverse side of this coin, all other letters and markings are INDENTED on this coin. So I believe the original was a 1700 era copper and going with odds a KGIII counterfeit.
OBSERVATION of the Obverse side of the coin has many STARS on it and a HEAD BAND with the letters of LIBERTY almost visible. The Obverse was struck at least two times since the STARS are in different locations.
Based on the closeness of the stars and the shape of the head band, I concluded the Obverse side is that of a Classic Head Large Cent.
Again all the stars and the headband with lettering is indented and the letters are backwards.
Near the rim I see a possible date from the original coin, hard to see but could be a 17__
OBSERVATION of the Reverse side of the coin shows several letters, backwards of course, most evident is OF you will see the F is backwards, the O would not matter.
Now the intriguing part of this whole coin is the fact that the Obverse side is a Classic Head Large Cent, but the Reverse side is not!
You can see a Wreath, looks double struck and maybe even double struck 180* the second time, but what is intriguing is there is a Ribbon at the bottom of the wreath, with the remains of the fraction 1/100, you can see the 00 and maybe a 1 but again it is backwards. Can also see A next to the ribbon which is the last A in AMERCIA. There are some other letters visible on the coin but the bottom line is, the Reverse is that of a Draped Bust or Liberty Cap Large Cent!!
Conclusions: Someone back in the early 1800's took a typical counterfeit King George III Halfpenny and then took a Liberty Cap or Draped Bust Large Cent and put it on top of the KG copper, REVERSE side up.
On the bottom side they put a Classic Head Large Cent with the OBVERSE side up.
So they had two different Large Cents on either side of the KG copper, then they must have hammered to sandwich together to impress the details of each of the coins onto the KG copper.
Everything came out backwards, also it looks like they did not do the job good enough the first time so they did it a second time but did not align the coins up identical thus the off center striking and confusion on alignments.
So, this plain ole dirty copper for some unknown reason, perhaps boredom was mutilated into something that is weird, unusual and I am glad I found it, despite its shape, like Kirk said, it's the history, and in this case the mystery.
I am attaching some photos showing how impression look in backwards appearance to give an idea of what went on.
I am still surprised that the coin had two different types of Large Cents on it. The easiest way for me to say something was weird, well, Liberty Cap coins with those style of wreaths do not have stars on the Obverse, and all the coins that have stars on , the Classic Head, and Coronets , all have stars, but have no ribbons on the wreath, just stems......
I want to add, that the lowest weight of any Large Cent regardless of type is 10.89 grams and this coin is about 6.2 grams.
Now, for my log book, what the heck do I call this coin
a 1770-1814 KGIIIDrapedBustClassicHead Copper?
Don
Yesterday I went back to a new homestead I found only 4 early 1800 era buttons at last week. I started off with a almost good copper reading, and when I looked at it, I thought it was a large button at first, especially since its tone and visual ID were a tad low for a good large copper. But after looking at it a bit, I thought perhaps since it had what appeared to be a rim, that it was a King George I copper. So, put it in my envelope and continued hunting.
I got a few lead and pewter unknowns, then 3 more buttons, one a very nice plain button but had the great backmark with the crown on it. I have found quite a few like this over the years, and always enjoy finding them.
When I got home I took some photographs after I tried cleaning the coin in peroxide, and it came out as in the photos attached. I have since then applied some wax, which in person, I can see the details much better, but dang if I can get a better photograph so, will have to go with my intially cleaned photos for identifying this coin.
After spending perhaps 8 or more hours looking at the coin and photos, I have reached the conclusion that I have a coin, but will never know what to call it.
Here is what all I think this coin is and what happened to it.
The copper appears to be a possible King George III counterfeit planchet, due to the size and weight, oh, the size is 27.5mm and it weighs 96.5 grains. I base this assumption on the size and the fact that I believe I see a raised date on the rim of the Obverse side of this coin, all other letters and markings are INDENTED on this coin. So I believe the original was a 1700 era copper and going with odds a KGIII counterfeit.
OBSERVATION of the Obverse side of the coin has many STARS on it and a HEAD BAND with the letters of LIBERTY almost visible. The Obverse was struck at least two times since the STARS are in different locations.
Based on the closeness of the stars and the shape of the head band, I concluded the Obverse side is that of a Classic Head Large Cent.
Again all the stars and the headband with lettering is indented and the letters are backwards.
Near the rim I see a possible date from the original coin, hard to see but could be a 17__
OBSERVATION of the Reverse side of the coin shows several letters, backwards of course, most evident is OF you will see the F is backwards, the O would not matter.
Now the intriguing part of this whole coin is the fact that the Obverse side is a Classic Head Large Cent, but the Reverse side is not!
You can see a Wreath, looks double struck and maybe even double struck 180* the second time, but what is intriguing is there is a Ribbon at the bottom of the wreath, with the remains of the fraction 1/100, you can see the 00 and maybe a 1 but again it is backwards. Can also see A next to the ribbon which is the last A in AMERCIA. There are some other letters visible on the coin but the bottom line is, the Reverse is that of a Draped Bust or Liberty Cap Large Cent!!
Conclusions: Someone back in the early 1800's took a typical counterfeit King George III Halfpenny and then took a Liberty Cap or Draped Bust Large Cent and put it on top of the KG copper, REVERSE side up.
On the bottom side they put a Classic Head Large Cent with the OBVERSE side up.
So they had two different Large Cents on either side of the KG copper, then they must have hammered to sandwich together to impress the details of each of the coins onto the KG copper.
Everything came out backwards, also it looks like they did not do the job good enough the first time so they did it a second time but did not align the coins up identical thus the off center striking and confusion on alignments.
So, this plain ole dirty copper for some unknown reason, perhaps boredom was mutilated into something that is weird, unusual and I am glad I found it, despite its shape, like Kirk said, it's the history, and in this case the mystery.
I am attaching some photos showing how impression look in backwards appearance to give an idea of what went on.
I am still surprised that the coin had two different types of Large Cents on it. The easiest way for me to say something was weird, well, Liberty Cap coins with those style of wreaths do not have stars on the Obverse, and all the coins that have stars on , the Classic Head, and Coronets , all have stars, but have no ribbons on the wreath, just stems......
I want to add, that the lowest weight of any Large Cent regardless of type is 10.89 grams and this coin is about 6.2 grams.
Now, for my log book, what the heck do I call this coin
a 1770-1814 KGIIIDrapedBustClassicHead Copper? Don
Attachments
Upvote
0
I was thinking the same thing not long ago and wonder what happened to those coins, and what shape were they left in, but you know what, it is very possibly the coin was mutilated somewhere else and this coin just happened to end up at this site and be lost or thrown away there. No way of knowing for sure.
