My techniques, theories and history hunting in heavy iron and mineralization...
How I hunt in heavy iron and mineralized soil with a top end Fisher....
My basic settings are usually all metal, sense and thresh just about maxed out, DE speed most of the time but sometimes I use boost.
In disc I rarely go higher than 1 but higher numbers on the disc can work for sure.
I found my deepest oldest nickel here at 8" using disc on 65.
I usually set my sense at minimum 85 here but sometimes go higher and push the thresh up sometimes too if it is not to noisy, in iron the resolution on good targets deeper is better on high sense using Fishers than on low sense.
I usually want to see, hear and know about everything especially when and how many times it drops to iron and let my brain sort it all out which takes practice but can be learned.
Using both methods I look for a higher range of numbers on coins because I never can get it down to just one or a couple...it will always be a range of at least 6-8 but sometimes more that repeats from two directions and doesn't do much dropping down to iron.
In mineralization, or at least in my heavy iron infested soil both the red clay stuff and most of the better black stuff, the amount of iron causes everything to soar into much higher numbers than usual, even nickels past 5" here come in at the low 90's.
This is a fantastic feature and one that I use do a great advantage in this soil and not just in iron infested old home sites.
This is a condensed version of how I learned to do this and get deeper into this mineralized devil dirt than I ever was able to before and more than most others I hunt with in these same sites and soil conditions.
Lots of the info repeats but there is a ton here that I used to learn from and figure out these methods.
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NCtoad said:
Hey Digger,
I was just reading an old post of yours...
About a little more than halfway down the post you say this about hunting in very trashy areas:
"This response already gotten bigger than I planned so I won't go into the exact methods I hit upon that eventually worked so well.
I actually discovered more than one way to do this using several different coils, one in disc, one in all metal with some insane settings you probably will not believe.
If you want to know exactly how I did this, the settings I used and the VDI number behavior I needed to learn to do what others could not using all kinds of top flight detectors and brands just ask and I will be happy to tell you."
If you don't mind, when you have the time, could you PM me some of the methods you used or maybe point me to a post where you talk in more detail about these methods?
thanks, Scott
Happy to.
I meant what I said in the thread in the link above when the other hunter said VDI numbers are useless for hunting in iron.
Using Fishers for hunting in sites with ridiculous amounts of iron, and in my mineralized regular soil that not only has that red iron oxide but heavy amounts of iron from microscopic to large also, I figured out another way using very little of the audio but almost totally the VDI numbers and how they behave.
I just hit on this method through trial and error but I think a few others might have used it before.
Tom Dankowski read about how I used this method with great success at a specific extreamly difficult site when I posted it on his forum and seemed impressed with my laborious experimental methods...he mentioned I might be in the top % of the detectorist in this country...I had to laugh at that.
I just try a million things, observe closely and keep using what finds me stuff no matter how weird they might seem to others.
As I always say...What works, works.
Using audio is another way some do it and it works too, I have tried it, but for me out of all methods I have tried using all metal and what I call Blast Through" settings and watching the numbers and not caring much about the audio so much turned out to be the best for me so far.
More on that method in a bit.
This is Tom Dankowski's monotone disc 6 method for iron hunting.
He is an actual scientist at NASA and goes by the handle Nasa Tom and delves deep into the programming and abilities of most detectors...plus he finds a ton of stuff.
Well respected in this hobby, sells informational vids and all kinds of things that people actually buy.
This is heady stuff, several readings to comprehend a lot of it but worth the time spent.
I bookmark a lot of his posts and re-read them all the time and try them...it works.
Here is that monotone disc 6 method plus if you scroll down other settings that can be used.
Disc on 0, sense on 99 and other tone choices besides 1 monotone for instance, most of these methods use the audio signals as important indicators and he does talk about up averaging.
That 99 sense setting...these things have better resolution on high gain than lower in iron is why.
I do use monotone a lot but instead of disc 6 I usually lower it down to 1 and I am currently experimenting with 0 disc which is really noisy without DST but manageable with practice.
The F75, F70 and the T2 are all built on the same platform so most information pertains to all.
This info is all relating to pre DST units.
For the original look up Compilation #1...
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F-75 Peak Performance - Disc '6' & mandatory
> 'monotone' relic hunting justification
>
> When the F-75 is placed on a Disc setting of
> '6' and 'monotone'; This set-up config allows
> (under MOST circumstances) the best iron see-thru
> ability..... in locating non-ferrous targets in
> areas that are loaded with ferrous (usually nails)
> environments. The older the site....... the more
> nails will be present; subsequently, the more good
> targets will be masked. Most detectors will
> 'shut-down' under these scenarios. The F-75 (&
> T-2) are the only detectors currently available on
> the market that begins to tackle this type of
> (extremely common) scenario.... with some
> 'unmasking' success.
>
> .... With F-75 Disc on '6' and
> 'monotone',,,,,,.....,,,,,, the moment you invoke
> a different tone option; Say 2-tone, 3-tone,
> 4-tone, etc.... the ‘audio’ portion of the
> Disc, ....even though Disc is set on '6'......
> will instantly become a Disc setting of '15'.
> What does this mean? = Any target that is between
> a Disc level of "6 thru 15" will now audibly
> report as a "Low Tone" (iron tone). BIG PROBLEM
> for a multiplicity of reasonings. Now, any target
> that is ABOVE a "15" (VDI reading)... MIGHT report
> a higher tone,,,, (tone freq depending on what
> tone option is invoked). -------Most folks do not
> dig iron. And most folks WILL miss masked
> non-ferrous targets when multitones are selected.
> Said differently via utilization of a "extremely
> common occurrence" example;
>
> ----- Recently, I recovered a badly masked Barber
> dime. When I (first) detected this severely
> handicapped dime, the F-75 was in 'monotone', Disc
> '6', 'PF' and Sens on '99'. In monotone, the dime
> AUDIBLY sounded good. (( I was going to dig this
> target )). The VDI was terrible - would/could NOT
> lock on to anything close to resembling a highly
> conductive piece of silver. I then invoked
> 2-tone..... leaving ALL other settings alone.
> Now.... the dime was constantly audibly reporting
> as low-tone (iron-tone).....even as I rotated my
> body around target. The VDI was jumping all over
> the board…. mostly in the iron ID range. I made
> the decision to NOT recover the target, primarily
> due to low iron-tone..... and walked away. Several
> hours later, I decided to go back and recover this
> target (and MANY other similar responding
> targets)..... with F-75 back in 'monotone'.
> Results = One 2" nail, two 1/2" long nails.....
> and one 1893 'O' Barber dime. Yep; MOSTLY iron,
> but certainly not ALL iron. The 2-tone mode did
> not lie. Justification = The composite of the 4
> targets (3 nails & one dime) were higher in
> conductivity than any one of the nails
> individually...... but TOTAL conductive composite
> was HIGHER than any nail (or combination of nails)
> would have cumulatively registered. Because I (and
> the detector) knew that the detected target
> (suspected co-locate/composite of multiple targets
> under coil) were higher than the conductivity of
> most nails... yet STILL ID'd in the 'Fe/iron'
> range...... this target was needing recovery. Good
> thing! Selecting any other tone option..... and
> the detector would audibly report the composite as
> "low-tone/iron-tone". Yes, the F-75 will still
> unmask more non-ferrous targets than other
> detectors if 2-tone or multiple tones are
> selected; however, a substantially greater level
> of unmasking performance can be ascertained when
> unit is placed in 'monotone'. ((( The T-2 with a
> Disc setting of '21' is the exact same thing as
> all of the info above ))). Having the ability to
> adjust how MUCH iron you choose to
> discriminate….is a major attribute. Small iron
> items….. such as nails…… will Disc out at a
> fairly low iron Disc range.
>
> This is Approx 10% of F-75's capabilities.
>
> In addendum:
>
> #1 On both the T-2 & F-75..... running a higher
> Sens gain in the trash (especially iron) presents
> a MUCH enhanced resolution on non-ferrous targets
> amongst iron. This is a paradoxical contradiction;
> what is....... but should NEVER be. Next time you
> find a non-ferrous target amongst high iron trash
> concentration (with high Sens settings).......
> drop the Sens and see what happens. The
> non-ferrous target audio resolution will
> decrease.......possibly even disappear completely
> (depends how badly masked the non-Fe target is).
> The more masking... the HIGHER the Sens needs to
> be on the T-2/F-75. ((( This is not a typo )))!
>
> #2 The mandatory "monotone" instructions is
> primarily for iron nail pits. Long description:
> --- If a non-ferrous target is co-located in very
> close proximity to iron/multi-iron
> scenario.......,,,,,,,, then......... as you
> rotate your body around the composite target; the
> audio will be bouncing between all of the
> different tones (same with VDI)...with each tone
> being exceptionally short in duration. You may
> even encounter a multi-tone audible reporting in
> ONE sweep of the coil !!! ..... Surely enough to
> confuse most detectorists into a NON-recovery
> decision..... as the target is audibly
> confusing,,, and is not a 'clean' or "solid"
> repeatable sounding target. ((( Most masked
> targets are not 'clean' audio targets ))). Each of
> the multi-tones reporting will be audibly shorter
> in duration. Kind of a "ratty" sounding/bouncing
> signal. NOW..... when monotone is
> selected/invoked,,,,,, this SAME composite
> target(s) will audibly report a LONGER duration
> SINGLE-tone audible presentation (instead of
> several ‘shorter-in-length’ different tones in
> one sweep of the coil)..... that will less-likely
> confuse the operator ..... and authorize the
> operator to make a much better profiling of the
> composite target audio signature ..... with the
> end resultant being a more intelligible
> target-recovery decision from less audible
> fatigue. Tech Terms; A better signal-to-hull
> emitter correlation. I'd rather hear ONE "longer"
> monotone vs. several shorter multi-tones in rapid
> succession….in a single coil sweep. NOW.......
> IMAGINE sweeping the coil in a iron nail pit with
> 2 or 3 or ---- especially 4 tones selected. A
> hill-billy jug band!!! Try and make non-fatigued
> intelligent audio decisions under this common
> scenario! The VDI is extremely "jumpy" in iron
> pits.... AND SO WOULD BE THE MULTI-TONES!!! ......
> At least,,,, in monotone,,,,, as the VDI is
> presenting extreme variances .... the one monotone
> will be CONSTANT and STABLE......even as the
> conductivity of the multi-target scenario varies
> dramatically ........ even with only one sweep of
> the coil.
>
> #3 On CZ-3D.... in the 'enhanced' mode; Nearly ALL
> old coins.... and new coins,,,,, will report as
> "hi-tone". On the F-75 & T-2, you MUST invoke
> 4-tone...... which will then cause the OLD coins
> to audibly report in the 3rd highest tone region
> (vs. mid-tone)...... and the new coins will remain
> in THE highest tone. If you select 3-tone on
> T-2/F-75.... only the NEW coins will report as
> high-tone.... and SOME of the older coins might
> report as high tone. Most of the older coins would
> then audibly report as mid-tone (just like the
> alum soda tabs).
>
> #4 If you run Disc on 0-4 on the F-75..... all
> nails will report as good targets in monotone.
> With F-75 Disc on '6'..... MOST (not all) nails
> will report as a snap-crackle-pop....tick-click
> (not a solid audio); which, in turn..... can be
> ignored. Axe heads, hammers, gun barrels and other
> large iron targets will give a good audio with
> Disc on '6' on the F-75. .... But, MOST fields we
> hunt are not loaded with axe heads, gun barrels
> and hammers.
>
> #5 The F-75/T-2 have a tendency to "up-average"
> non-ferrous target ID numbers when near
> disintegrated iron or bad minerals. VERY common
> occurence. It is partial 'silent masking' coupled
> with conductive target response. I have several
> documented experiences exactly relating to this.
> +++ Let's say that you detect a slightly masked
> silver dime. Normally (without being masked) it
> would VDI at '71'. But now..... it's slightly
> masked. It may now VDI at '89'..... a somewhat
> "up-averaging" VDI common resultant. In both
> cases, the detector reports "hi-tone". No problems
> yet.
>
> A slightly corroded buffalo nickel will VDI at
> '28' in open air...and audibly report as a
> 'hi-tone'. Now....... with this same nickel in the
> dirt ... in a natural setting and partially
> masked..... IT TOO will "up-average" (just like
> the silver dime) ,,,, to,,, say = VDI '47'.
> Hmmmmmm, now the nickel 'looks' like a soda tab to
> the detector...and the unit will now report the
> slightly masked nickel as a mid-tone. ((( All of
> this holds true for medium conductivity
> items...such as relics & gold jewelry ))).
> ....If you are recovering Mercury dimes at (say)
> the 11" depth strata...... You may want to ALSO
> recover the 11" depth strata mid-tones.... as many
> of these will be the corresponding era Buffalo
> nickels.
> The T-2 & F-75 electronic design architect is
> notorious for "Up-Averaging" non-ferrous targets
> in the presence of iron & iron oxides. Not a
> problem, considering other single freq units would
> remain completely silent.
> ALL detectors have a difficult time ID'ing
> nickels. CZ's do the best ID job, but are not
> immune to EASILY mis-ID'ing nickels.
>
> #6 All-Metal mode is the deepest mode; HOWEVER,
> coin-sized objects will still ID to depths of only
> 12" or so. The depth at which a target will
> properly ID in the ID mode..... is the same depth
> it will properly ID in the AM mode (F-75 & T-2).
> Yes, targets will audibly report to greater depths
> in the AM mode...... but the VDI screen will
> remain blank on the deeper targets. Now,,,,,,,
> that being said...... IF you are a extremely
> seasoned hunter...you can take advantage of these
> greater (no VDI) deeper depths. If you can audibly
> 'profile' deep/weak targets, you are in for some
> serious enjoyment. Can you tell the difference
> between a small target that is shallow, , , such
> as a lead .22 Short 29Gr rimfire projectile at 4"
> deep vs. a U.S. nickel at 12" depth. These are
> both non-ferrous targets. ....... And can you tell
> the difference between a 2-Penny nail at 7" vs. a
> Wheat penny at 12". This latter example... is the
> MOST common and MOST important test for the astute
> detectorist,,,, as it poses the greatest challenge
> with the most significant, rewarding resultant. Of
> note; Dinosaurs can be miles beneath the Earths
> surface. Egyptian sunken cities are dozens of feet
> deep........ thusly; the 100 year-old coins we
> wish to find are a foot or two deep.
>
> NOW.......... that being said…. (((( If you are
> in a nail infested area, and you do NOTaudibly
> fatigue easily = = = )))) IF, IF, IF, you can
> handle a lot of noise.... and the detector can
> handle (not EMI plagued) a Disc setting of '0' and
> a Sens setting of '99'....then hunt in 2, 3, 4
> tones (your choice),,, hunting for the "deepies".
> YES.....the detector will mask some targets in
> this audio selection config (ie 2, 3, 4 tones are
> selected) because any (heavily masked) target that
> VDI ID's as a '15' or below will present a 'iron'
> audio response (as so stated in example
> above),,,,, BUT, the trade-off is; the F-75 will
> go deeper just by virtue of the Disc setting being
> '4' or below (especially '0').
>
> Soooooooo, I am saying (by this set-up config) =
> MORE MASKING, BUT GREATER DEPTH. Hmmmmmmmm...
> trade-off. Which one does better? Disc '6' &
> monotone
? or Disc '0' and multi-tone
? The
> answer is: They BOTH do!!!!!!!!!
> I am saying; HUNT the area in Disc '6' &
> monotone...... and perform all of the 'unmasking'
> that you can. THEN hunt in Disc '0' and a
> tone-option of your choice.... going for all the
> deepies.
> NO...... you can not have both at the same time.
>
> In theory,,,,,,, in an ideal world; Targets are
> spaced far enough apart so as to be single, solo
> targets....... not tilted, not near hot rocks, not
> near iron, no dirt mineralization etc....... This
> would allow the detector to ID targets with
> greatest accuracy. HOWEVER; This is not reality
> ..... not the real world. Fact of the matter is;
> Nearly all targets are somewhat/somehow
> handicapped. First; as a good target (say a coin)
> is moved closer to any other metallic object, a
> multiplicity of problems are introduced to the
> detector. Now add dirt mineralization, tilt the
> coin, add a hot rock or two, etc..... WELCOME TO
> THE REAL WORLD! This is genuinely what we contend
> with as detectorists and detector engineers. How
> do you correct and compensate for infinite
> unpredictable variables?! Secondly; What may be
> categorized and classified as "these two targets
> are too close to each other" to Brand 'A' detector
> & coil Assy…. may present different results to
> Brand 'B' detector & coil Assy. The extremely
> enhanced adjacent target separation
> characteristics afforded by a elliptical Double D
> coil presents just exactly such. A coin and a
> pull-tab... both at a 6" depth....... and
> adjacently separated by 6", poses a severe problem
> to a 10.5" concentric coil,,,,, but does not even
> approach "problem" status to a 11" elliptical DD
> coil.
>
>
> When absolute maximum overdriven performance is
> desired:
>
> 1) Starting point = Factory Preset and Ground
> Balance.
>
> 2) Hold coil parallel to ground.... and at a
> height (approx) 8" above the ground. Do not tilt
> the coil upward. Increase Sens to '99' and verify
> detector is audibly stable. This is the FIRST
> step. (((Shut down your intents if you cannot
> ascertain stability with Sens on '99'))).
>
> 3) Next....... IF no EMI is encountered with '99'
> Sens........ THEN you may start to bring Disc
> down. Start with Disc '6'.
>
> 4) IF the detector is still EMI stable.... see
> what happens to EMI stability.... by lowering Disc
> BELOW '5'. '5' is not the magic number.... but
> '4' is. Going to a Disc setting of '4' is where
> sensitivity receives yet another boost. (((And
> USUALLY............... when you are at a Disc of
> '4' ... and ESPECIALLY lower... is where multitone
> option is virtually required))). Set Disc on '4'
> and verify detector remains audibly stable.
>
> 5) Now, Drop Disc to '3'... then '2'... then
> '1'... then ultimately '0'….. verifying audio
> stability is still retained.
>
> 6) Now select JE mode and verify detector remains
> audibly quiet.
> ((( IF .... during any of these steps, the
> detector becomes audibly 'chattery' .... you have
> electrical interference (EMI).... and must back-up
> in procedure,,,,, until you re-find electrical
> stability,,,,......,,,,,,, and these are the
> settings you should hunt with ))).
>
> 7) Start sweeping the coil..... with the coil
> remaining 8" above the ground,,,, and verify
> detector remains audibly stable.
>
> 8) Start lowering the coil closer to the ground
> while continuing to sweep....and verify detector
> remains audibly stable. If you manage to get the
> coil all the way down onto the ground while
> sweeping..... and the detector is audibly
> stable,,,,, you are home-free!!!!... and have the
> most powerful relic detector currently on the
> market. Remember, many relics are very low
> conductors (in the 'foil' range).
>
> ((( IF..... while lowering the coil to the ground
> as you are sweeping,,,,, and the detector THEN
> becomes audibly unstable..... you have ground
> interference ... most probably from high volumes
> of tiny flakes of rust/iron (a VERY common dirt
> occurence)..... which then, you must back out of
> the JE mode ))).
>
> 9) It is your choice for 'tone options'.
>
> I have YET to be able to handle a nail infested
> site with the detector in monotone.... and a Disc
> setting of '0'. This means that you hear
> absolutely everything.
>
> It is not so much that a DE would over-engineer a
> detector to be audibly unintelligible; it's more a
> 'sensitivity function' of a gold prospecting
> capable unit..... coupled with a extremely fast
> microprocessor/clockspeed and very tight
> electromagnetic footprint eminating from the coil.
> Little flecks of iron will cause this particular
> detector set (F-75 & T-2) to sound
> electromagnetically unstable. On a recent hunt, I
> (as usual) was overdriving the F-75...and, in one
> area, it became electrically unstable (((so I
> thought))). Coil in the air.... and unit was
> stable. Coil on the ground and not moving.... and
> unit was mostly stable. Sweeping coil.... and EMI
> interference ensued. Hmmmmm....... let's dig some
> of these so-called "chatters". Resultant: About
> every 2" or 3"..... I was finding #2 lead shot
> from a shotgun.... at a depth of approx 1.5". I
> quit recovering them once I had about a dozen in
> my hand. The small spot of land that I
> recovered/removed these small BB's.... suddenly
> had no 'electrical chatter' in this one localized
> location of coil-sweep. Exterior of this sans
> spot,,,,, the electrical chatter resumed. I knew I
> was 'overdriving' the F-75.... and decided to drop
> the Sens to a setting of '70'..... and the
> ‘perceived’ electrical chatter (the
> BB-shot).... as coil was being swept.... suddenly
> vanished. I had desensitized the detector enough
> to no longer detect these small targets,,,, and
> the unit became stable again. Masking was still
> taking place though. It hurts me to drop Sens to
> lower levels; however, I could ascertain a more
> stable/intelligible unit and could then somewhat
> "hunt". (Targets beneath these BB's are going to
> be partially or completely "masked").
>
> Another known engineering fact is that a single
> freq unit has the ability to handle Fe better than
> multi-freq units. Both types of units are still
> blinded (masked & silent masked) by iron,,,,, but
> the single freq units can ID iron with better
> accuracy, less falsing.... and a hair-splitting
> Disc setting is more ascertainable with a single
> freq unit.
>
> Something worth mentioning; in reference to the CZ
> (and nearly all other units). When the coil is
> passed over a target (or multi-target co-locate
> scenario), the reporting circuitry will remain
> silent. When peak signal strength is ascertained,
> the detector reporting circuitry will STILL remain
> silent. When the electronics see the received
> signal strength 'start' to decay (decrease), then
> ....and only then, will the detector take a
> "best-guess" and report a target & ID. Keep in
> mind..... if multiple targets are under the coil
> at the same time, these types of detectors will
> wait until the largest COMPOSITE signal strength
> (only one) is achieved. And now...... the
> different animals; the T-2 & F-75. Their
> electronics and audio will 'fire' on ANY
> target,,,,, and take multiple "snap-shots" and
> report each one. Hence; the F-75 & T-2 will
> audibly sound very 'noisy'. Said differently:
> Let's say the dirt is Sans.... except for one
> single coin target at several inches deep. At a
> normal sweep-rate,,,,, the F-75 & T-2 will 'fire'
> many many many times (dictated by micro-processor
> clock speed) on the coin..... and report each
> 'firing' individually...... BUT; what do your
> human ears hear/register? It just simply sounds
> like one continuous "beep" to you. It's not!
> Now..... pass your coil over many extremely close
> (and very small) co-located targets with 75/2 and
> see if your brain can process at the same speed of
> the 75/2. You will also notice the VDI jumping
> radically. Do you think the VDI is incorrect!!!
> These steroiditic detectors (unfortunately) are
> mentally fatiguing......... not because of the
> detector,,,,, but due to our ears clock-speed. The
> CZ's are a MUCH smoother, MUCH better sounding
> unit..... and SO much easier to detect/hunt with.
> BUT, they can be quite blind (easily masked) and
> can close doors....... where the 75's/2's can
> re-open hunted-out sites with tremendous
> success…. especially with a slower coil
> sweep-speed in hi trash areas. ----Food for
> thought.
>
> Happy Intelligent Hunting!
>
> Thomas J. Dankowski
///////////////////////////////
This is a post from me on Dankowski's forum about my blast through method.
A novel...but if this helps someone out there find something great the way I am doing it here it would well worth the time to read it.
I have had a little success lately in a site loaded with not just iron nails but all sizes of iron and other old metal from large to small using a way out of the box thinking method I tried just as a lark.
I wonder what the community here thinks about this method, is there a scientific reason it has been working for me, am I just lucky or is there something here that can be replicated by others....or would anyone else even want to try it this way?.
All opinions, explinations, theories or even smacks in the back of the head if you think I deserve it are welcome.
Saturated is a word that fits the profile of this difficult and challenging site.
This was an old farm house site, it used to be private and now it is within the boundries of a public park that has taken over the property.
Many have hunted here before, the site became public somewhere between 2019 and 2010, and I know for sure a few MD club members hunted here, very accomplished hunters, but all told me they tried it just once, the amount of iron and other metal here was just too much and as far as I know all of them moved onto easier sites after hunting this site only that one time.
Me, I am stubborn and crazy, and this site is interesting to me because of the pretty neat kinds of iron objects I am digging here, old parts off of tractors, cars, and things that were in or were part of the construction of the home including some cool brass pieces like this which is a high tank toilet fill valve that dates from the 30's to who knows how much further than that.
I dig these large signals because I have found tools and all kinds of other cool and unusual objects like that brass piece and also to get rid of at least some of the larger metel to see if it is masking something better.
We all suspect there is still some older coins and silver here, I believe the home was built here sometime in the last quarter of the 19th century, but it is so very difficult to get through all the signals and make sense of them to find them.
In many areas with the densest amout of signals it is very common to dig a small hole and in that hole could easily be 3-4-5 or more small nails, bits of rusty wire and other pieces of junk, not to mention other medium to larger nails and garbage and also the huge metal pieces that could be adjacent or under any and all targets deeper.
My soil is actually pretty good, I usually GB at somewhere from the high 40's to the high 50's at this site, one bar on the dirt meter, and it seems the older coin targets I am looking for are laying at approximately the 6" level here.
At sites with similar conditions and good targets deeper this method may not work at all, but here like I said, I am having some success.
I have not tried a few other techniques here with my F70 yet, hunting in disc just barely knocking out nails and using 4 tone, or zero disc and using mono tone, they might work at this site too for all I know, but this crazy way was just and experiment I tried first just because I was curious and it seemed to work so well that I continued to do it for the last few hunts.
I also just saw a vid from Gene Scully and his settings for hunting in iron with the F75 and he states that too much sense, too much power can actually cut your depth in at least those type of sites and that is something I did not know or realize so I have much more experimenting to do.
Curiously, messing around with all the settings just to see different results, good and bad, is way fun for me, almost as fun as digging up those great targets, and I will take time on my hunts to do this still even though I might leave a few extra targets in the ground when I get sidetracked to do this.
A bit more backgrond on me so you will have all the facts.
My beginner experience was with a lower end Bounty Hunter in my first hunting sites when I lived in Alabama that couldn't handle the super hot soil there at all.
Falsing to such a degree on just about every swing that was something that a beginner usually does not or should not have to deal with but I had nothing else and didn't know any better at the time about other detectors that could deal with that situation better so I just used it for about 150 hours till I upgraded to a Vaquero.
The boot camp experience with that noisy thing was actually frustrating but also a blessing in disguise because I had to learn to listen, really listen, to pick out the real solid and good signals from all the false ones...something I am still thankful for to this day.
That training helped me in learning my next detector, the Vaq, also a Compadre, and then one day I bought an F2 just a s a backup detector and I discovered I could run it on full power and still managed to learn to tell good signals from bad even though it was usually pretty noisy at most sites I hunted with some good amount of falsing coming out of that thing too.
I was very successful with that thing, and when I decided to upgrade again I went with an F70 hoping to get a bit more depth, better ID's at depth and I also hoped all the language I learned swinging the F2 would transfer over.
Not only the actual in your face language I learned but the hidden, between the lines, language and behavior I discovered I could comprehend which helped me find more and greater treasures than I would have believed possible.
I was very happy to learn that the F series language does transfer between the different models although the higher you go the basics are there but there is just much more language to learn.
When I got my F70 I experimented a ton, still do, and eventually started to hunt at several sites like the woods and even some parks at fully blown out settings...
AT, SL, Sense at 99, Thresh at 9, and even though all the noise and jumping I could and sometimes did get at some of my heavier EMI loaded sites I was still able to pick out the true, good tones and notice the more stable numbers that flashed on the screen that wer good and not false...if only for a brief instant.
Still a babe in the woods with this thing as far as I am concerned, but the amount and quality of my finds satisfy me as does the depth I am finding them at which is sometimes surprising.
So now My experiences at this site.
I have been here before many times with many detectors and coils and did find some larger iron objects like hand tools and such, even a few wheaties in one area that were relatively shallow, but never any silver or older coins which was always my goal.
The F70 had its first visit here with the large 11" DD coil mounted, but I found that so many signals hitting this coil at the same time no matter what settings I used from low to high just made it an unintelligible mess and no love on that hunt.
Then I came back with the F70 and the standard coil mounted this time and for some silly reason I set it up to hunt on those all metal maxed out settings just to see what would happen.
My hope and theory was to blast through any and all iron and see if I could notice any other signals that indicated anything else but iron, and then dig down and see what I would find.
The first hunt this way was surprising, almost shocking actually.
I had severe jumping on the screen and of course in the tones, also, but I listened for what I thought were the more solid tones and watched for any and all numbers that were higher than iron and seemed t be real even though on every swing there were also iron numbers and those low iron grunts popping up continuously due to the dense blanket of existing iron.
My check program was disc at 1, DE speed, sense at 85 and thresh at -1 and I was in 4H tones which is my more usual park hunting settings.
Every target I came across that I heard something solid in that threshold tone and also saw numbers that flashed by on the screen that were higher than 15 and seemed like they might be real if they repeated at all and showed up more than once I stopped and examined further.
I pinpointed to try to get the center of the coil over the exact area of the target, the coil just a bit off center of most iron here would always false into the higher numbers so I had to get the coil just right to give me more accurate information.
Once I found that spot I made several small side to side passes and listened and watched the screen closely for those higher number flashes ignoring the iron grunts and iron numbers that were also there in every swing.
Remember every hole I opened all day had some kind of target but also at least one if not more like 2 or 3 bits of rusty iron in it also so the iron signals were always there.
Many times the high numbers I saw went away when I got the coil right, and the numbers settled down into constant iron numbers that usually stayed within a 2 number jump if that.
I knew this was a true iron signal and moved on.
I also examined each suspected non iron target from at least one other angle if not 2 or more.
Many times those higher than iron numbers I saw were still there but they had completely changed to a new set of numbers than the first, usually lower.
These targets that changed numbers as I circled aroud were never coins because the numbers were never that high, but they did end up to be something other than iron so I was happy with that.
Eventually I did get some signals that were the kind I was looking for, not many in the higer silver coin ranges but higher than iron and stayed sort of within the same range as I circled and I dug some very good targets that also weren't iron.
Now let me stop here and explain about these higher numbers.
On my F2 after hundreds of hours I made a rule for myself that I was good enough and accurate enough, especially using the sniper coil, that I would rarely dig any signal that jumped more than 2 numbers unless I heard something sweet and solid in that tone.
This worked well for me and I found I could avoid about 80-90% of the trash out there which usually jumped more than those 2 numbers no matter what I did or how I maneuvered that coil and concentrate on digging the targets that stayed within my rule.
Those targets were comprised of the other trash that came in solid, there is nothing you could do to avoid that, and the rest of those solid signals which were usually good like coins and jewelry and relics which never jumped more than 2 numbers if they were within a 6" depth level.
When I got my F70 I could not stay within this rule at first...so much more power and so much jumping I dug all targets that strayed way outside my 2 number rule into 4-5-6-7 number jumps as I learned.
Eventually I got more skilled with all the coils and now my rule is in place again and slightly amended to be a solid diggable target is one that is within a 2-3 number jump.
Anything at major depth this rule does not apply, of course, all bets are off on those so I go by audio info more than screen info as I do on most targets I come across whether they are shallow or deep.
Now these higher numbers I have been talking about at this iron site did not stay within these rules at all.
At no time on any target that was not iron did I get any sort of signal or numbers that were stable and steady at that 2-3 number range.
Those higher numbers spanned an area of about 10 numbers, and even that sometimes went higher and lower or in a different way slightly changed, so insted of looking for a 2-3 number jump I was looking for similar blocks of numbers much wider.
If I kept seeing them on several swings, especially successive swings, even if those blocks of numbers weren't exactly the same each time I still dug them and on that first trip with the standard coil, and after many previous trips here as stated with other detectors and coils I found all this....
A small frosted glass handle from a drawer or cabinet from inside the house.
A burner from an oil lamp.
A very thick plate made of brass I believe with a western theme.
I thought is was off an old toy, but I have found out since that the last person that lived here was an old authentic cowboy so it could have come off of one of his personal possessions.
A complete antique victorian vertical rim lock from the 1800's and no later than the very early 1900's.
These are the kind of locks that those skeleton keys we always love to find fit.
The prize of the day was this 4" long insurance tag that used to be very popular to attach to license plates long ago.
I can't find any info on this long defunct insuance company anywhere on the web, I come from Detroit and I never heard of them so I assume this is very old.
Hunt 2 at this site with this new technique was with the sniper coil replacing the larger standard coil.
Again I wandered all over this site looking for silver, I used the same method as before but this time I was refreshed and decided to dig the more interesting iron signals too.
Some nice buckles, some odd and end iron you find on farms, and a very rusty small pocket knife were some of the keepers for that day.
Near the end of that hunt I wandered over to what I now know to be the front lawn of the property at an area close to the street.
This is where I got a signal with of ocourse iron bouncing in and out but this one also had some higher numbers I have not seen before.
That block of numbers mostly repeated from all angles, they did change slightly as I moved around the area with the coil but they usually stayed in the range between the high 70's and the mid to high 80's on the F70.
Copper cents and dimes on the F70 are usually in the 70-75 range, quarters would be more like 85, halves would probably be in the high 80's to low 90's and silver dollars which I would assume to come in at the low to mid 90's.
This block of numbers was in the high coin range, they did repeat enough from a few directions and I didn't think they were false high numbers from big rusty iron so I had hope.
I switched over to my check program and heard some very nice and pretty solid high tones and they didn't repeat every time but they did repeat most times and from other angles too so I opened a hole.
The depth on the screen when pinpointing said 6" so I started digging.
I got down to about the 5-5.5" area and scooped out som dirt and when I threw it on top of the little dirt pile I was building on the side of the hole I saw the glint of silver.
A 1917 merc...you could not take a picture of a happier man.
The Propointer in the hole says there are more targets.
I get up and swing the F70 over the hole and got about the same signal with iron hits and high numbers but this time the numbers were slightly lower in the 70 to high 80 range.
I dug another target and it ended up to be a pretty good size rusty nail.
One mre target to go and that one turned out to be a 1928 wheaty.
You could knock me over with a feather, and even though I dug all those other nice targets before and I was holding these 2 old coins in my hand from this hunt, it was still hard to believe this blast through high power technique actually worked in this iron mine.
The next trip I was on a mission to find more silver so I stayed near the area I found the merc but not a lot of time for this hunt and no silver, but I did dig up another pocket knife from about that same 6" depth level and it is in surprisingly good shape for being in the ground for so long.
Then I came back not soon after, I am lucky because this park is close to me so I can visit it whenever I have even a little time.
Back to the area the other coins were found, back to using the same methods and sniper coil and back looking for the same sort of signal and high sort of repeating numbers I saw on the hole with the merc and the wheaty.
Then it happened.
I got pretty much the same signal I got when I dug those other 2 coins a few days before.
Iron bouncing in and out, a block of higher numbers that pretty much stayed and repeated, but there was one difference in that this block of numbers were a bit higher than when I found the merc coin spill.
These numbers went from 83 into about 93, and immediately I hoped for, wished for, another small coin spill but this time hopefully with more than 2 coins in that hole with iron which would accout for those slightly higher numbers.
I even had a fleeting thought it could be a silver quarter or a quarter and another high conductive coin, but even 3 or 4 wheaties in the hole I was about to dig would have elated me at that point.
I again switched to my check program, again I got a very nice solid sounding high tone with those same high numbers that mostly repeated along with some iron grunts.
Again the pinpointer said 6"...all signs said dig this signal if ever there was a target I was fated to dig so again I opened a hole.
On the way down to that 6" depth I came across 3 small nails and a small piece of thin rusty wire of some kind.
I got near the area I needed to be and then I started digging way around the sides of where these coins were supposed to be...didn't want to scratch amy old wheaties let alone silver.
I was pulling of chunks of dirt and putting them on my towel at the side of the hole and then I went in with the Propointer and the signal was gone.
Evidently I already got it out so I started to run the scraping edge of the PP over the dirt and i moved a bit of that dirt off the top and then I saw the outline of silver...and it was BIG silver.
I grabbed it and looked and it was a walker...a coin I have never found before and one on my bucket list.
To find one with a date in this environment and for my first one ever turn out to be a half, well, lets just say I keep it next to my keyboard and it has been several days since this dig and I just can't stop looking at it and I can't stop picking it up to feel the weight.
So there it is guys, have you ever heard of anyone hunting this way in such an iron infested site or am I the first crazy person to try it and succeed?
Is there a scientific explanation for what is going on here?
Was I just lucky, even though I have now dug several nice targets on successive hunts?
I still want to try other methods with the F70 at this place now that I know for sure there is silver here.
I also want to refine and play with the settings I have been using with this method to try to stableize those numbers and tones even more and maybe make it a bit easier to recognize the good targets in all this mess.
Still, crazy or not, I consider myself a success at this site that has chased away several hunters in the past.
You can always find a way if you keep trying!
///////////////////////////
At the time I was using all metal, sense and thresh pegged, and SL boost.
Every time I got a good signal on anything, a range of numbers that repeated without many drops to iron,I hit it from a 90 degree angle.
If I saw that same behavior again I dug.
There were usually some drops but if there weren't many it was worth further examination.
Signals that dropped low to iron from that second direction were always iron.
Signals that hit high one way on my sweep but down to iron coming back are usually iron.
Signals that dropped lower into other areas from that second direction were usually trash, but not iron trash.
Everything was up averaged around all that iron.
I tried that same blast through method at other heavy iron sites and it worked again so it was no fluke.
Eventually I quit using my second program to check the target, the one with the multi tones, and just used all metal all the time but hit all targets from two ways
On every target I got I used the pinpoint function first before examining it to make sure there was a target there and not falsing from iron several inches away.
I dug many empty holes at first because I didn't think to do that...high tone falsing from lots of iron is never in the exact same place but can be close and in sites with a ton of it might fool you to think you are swinging over something solid.
Use the pinpoint to track down the real locations of all targets...it will save you a lot of time chasing false tones.
Since that time I have honed that method a little.
Sense seemed to work a little lower down to 95 also, thresh down to 5 too and DE speed is faster than SL boost so it seems to work a bit easier.
However, most targets at these iron infested sites the targets were no deeper than 6", if there are targets deeper than that possible I usually still use boost and still peg the other settings.
Actually, I use max settings most of the time when in all metal anyway.
I switch between DE and SL depending on the EMI difficulties at any site.
Ya gotta move the coil really slow to acquire targets in sites like this, using a small coil will work the best and easiest but I found good targets using 3 different coils.
I was pleasantly surprised all of these techniques worked just the same when I moved back to the south with my mineralized soil and infested with extra iron also.
The only difference here is that number range isn't quite as large, maybe 6-7 numbers, and the deeper the coins are the higher the numbers soar.
Around here all high tone coins and even nickels in the 6-7" area come in at the high 80's to low 90's every time.
One of the keys to this method is all targets were up averaged to those crazy high numbers so you can notice them easier.
This is a feature on this platform and a great one.
Here is some info I put down on another forum about that.
I am REVIER over here.
REVIER said:
WV62 said:
Revier I have heard this up averaging deal before but could never prove it on my 2 F75's. I was wondering if you know how I could prove this on my latest F75?
I would think if I had a coin kind of close to some iron my ID number would be lower than a quarter by it's self, but higher than the iron by it's self.
Just wondering what your take is on this.
If my above statement is what to expect, I don't see that it would do anybody any good.
Ron in WV
Ron...You got it wrong.
I see your confusion and I will set you straight and help you find even more than you are now if you have soil that acts anything like mine or if you ever hunt in heavy iron infested sites.
Here is the gist and that novel below will illustrate...
You are thinking of blended signals but not in the right way.
A quarter in a hole with a nickel will usually even out to somewhere around a dime in normal soil for most of us.
A 35 number tab laying n on a 73 dime won't be either but a signal somewhere in between.
A low conductor and a higher one or any combinations of these different conductive metals will skew most signals all the time everywhere if they are in close proximity and all this is just a form of masking.
Here is the difference with iron using the F70/F75/T2 platform and who knows maybe a couple of others.....
The iron will throw off false higher signals for sure, if it is rusty even small nails con false into high coin numbers several inches away from where it actually lays.
Big rusty iron even further.
Then you can get those actual iron numbers mixed in too but you can really nail them down if you search around the area with your coil and use your pinpoint to find their exact location.
Now add a coin in there, let's say a merc that is within the conductivity field thrown off by all this iron stuff when energized by the signals sent out by our coils.
In these cases you are thinking the iron will combine with the dime like that nickel and dime would but this is not what happens.
In reality they remain, for the most part, separate entities with a different relationship yet still combined in a totally unique way.
Think of a lava lamp filled with a translucent liquid and colored wax that makes up the rising and falling bubbles.
They are not actually combined, the light source in the bottom heats the wax which changes its density so it rises.
When it gets high enough it starts to cool and gets heavier so it sinks and so on.
The iron is the heat source and non ferrous targets near iron can be thought of that heated wax.
Iron causes the normal conductivity readings to rise, NOT combine with that dime and make a signal that would be somewhere between like two different coins.
Iron lifts up that merc signal into non normal areas, it doesn't lower it at all like other coins or trash could.
These higher than normal signals are there although they might not be easy to notice at first unless you have the right settings and know what you are looking for.
Using monotone, low disc and very high sense can do it, this is the essence of Dankowski's monotone, disc on 6 method.
High gain on these units will actually give you higher resolution around iron, not cloud the issue like many think...the high headlights in a fog theory.
My maxed out blast through settings will do it too and way more than well I have found.
Those high settings will also see those better targets as way higher than normal, what took me so long to get good at doing it this way is maneuvering that coil at a slow enough speed to notice this block of higher numbers,(never a single or two numbers...always a larger block of at least 5 or 6), and then moving that coil ever so slowly from 2 directions to get them to repeat efficiently.
If indeed a good target is laying there masked at all.
In my rough soil I don't need to use high gain at all, all targets are up averaged around here and the deeper they are the higher they are.
Many examples and experiences below.....
I never air tested or set up a test garden with iron but I have seen the proof multiple times in the field in both good soil and bad...the best way to gain good data is by hunting in the wild I would think.
I have no doubt that it is a real thing and because it can lift all non ferrous targets up into a higher range than normal...literally lift them up and out of a combo signal of not only a small bit of iron in the vicinity but a blanket of thick iron of any kind and help you notice them easier I am going to call this a feature and a great one at that.
6 months after I started hunting with my F70 I noticed this effect big time and it helped me find my first gold of 2014 and I was still deep into the experimenting and tweaking phase at this time.
This was a very difficult site to hunt and I had been their many times.
Really great black mild soil in this park in Missouri, mineralization was not an issue ever back there and I usually GB'd at this park at low to mid 40's numbers and at the most one bar on the dirt meter...if that.
Iron generally was not an issue either in most areas of the public parks I usually hunted although I did come across a little once in awhile plus I did visit a few sites with major amounts where I learned many life lessons...this was not one of them.
This area was at the edge of an old park near a sidewalk and street that had more EMI issues than any other site I ever visited before or since.
It always had this crazy huge constant pulsing EMI problem in this same spot and I never figured out why but this was right next to the parking area so I always walked through here every time I came trying different settings and things till the noise, jumping and chatter drove me crazy and I eventually moved on to much quieter areas in this large park.
I did try very low sense and thresh settings here too sometimes and they worked shockingly well in making my heater a true silent searcher in that crazy place and enabled me to find great stuff but you know me, high crazy settings boy and I happened to be in that mode on this hunt.
On this hunt I had the big DD coil mounted and I was using my blast through all settings maxed out method when I came across this signal.
Hard as it might be to believe those pumped up SL all metal settings were actually quieter than using lower settings in disc and DE here for some reason...again I have no clue why this would be but it was.
I swung over a target and got a mixed signal of iron and something else.
Low iron numbers on the ends on every swing plus higher falsing numbers into the 70's like rusty iron can cause and at first glance this was nothing I should have thought to dig.
However, every time I swung I got those iron and falsing signals I also got something else right in the middle...a pretty short but consistent kind of repeatable tone and numbers on the screen that always said 52-53.
I got curious so I stopped and maneuvered that coil a bit more and used my pinpoint butt to see if I could figure out what was going on.
Soon enough I guessed there were three targets here and close enough that they were all under my coil at the same time if I centred on that middle target.
There was a small piece of rusty iron on the left, turned out to be a rusty nail because I dug that one later, and a large piece of iron on the right that was deep enough that I never even tried to dig it curious or not.
What was that low 50's number target in the middle I wondered?
I thought at the time probably can slaw but I hoped it might be a masked gold class ring because I had dug 4 all in the 48-52 low zinc range area in the past.
I stuck my digger in and popped a tiny shallow plug and it was a bit deeper so one more time in that hole with the tip of my digger and I pried up a little more dirt.
I was shocked when a gold ring actually did come up that time!
I was thrilled and then a bit confused after that wore off, this thing was not huge like a class ring, only about 3.2 grams of 10k, so why did it come in so high like those much bigger and heavier class rings always did?
I air tested it out of the ground in my hand and I was surprised again...this time it rang up as a solid 41 on every pass no matter how I held it, a much more normal signal for a ring this size and a full 10 numbers lower than those original repeating numbers.
I swung over the whole area again and there was nothing there at all, no trash, no other signal on anything else except that big iron that was still deeper that I left in the ground.
It had to be those iron targets that caused this, nothing else was around that could have done it.
That was lesson one.
Lesson two was in that iron mine where I found all those great things that were missed by so many including myself for years.
Iron everywhere including more than one piece in just about every hole I dug even the ones with good targets plus huge rusty iron farm junk deeper like chains and rings and rusty tools.
It took me awhile to figure that place out but when I finally got good enough to actually recognize the great stuff masked to the extreme I realized something.
Every target I dug at that place that was old and great and all in the the 4-6" depth level area all came in really really high before I dug them.
Indian heads and old wheat cents, silver dimes and a walker half all came in at the high 80's to low to mid 90's and as you know that is more like silver half to silver dollar range...usually.
Thinking Back I believe that walker was higher than even those numbers into like the mid to higher 90's.
Even the other things I recovered like a tiny slip wheel brass lighter, an aluminum stamping machine token and just about everything else all came in at much higher ranges than you would ever suspect.
Every one of those targets when air tested out of the ground all returned to their normal numbers...every one.
Guess what caused it all...yep, that iron because it was everywhere.
The key to this method was moving the coil slow and trying to notice not stable numbers because there never were any here but blocks of numbers, a small range of about 5-6 that I could get to repeat somewhat and would do it again from a 90 degree angle.
I didn't care where those numbers were as long as they weren't repeating at only iron numbers...if they weren't they got dug which was good.
At another site in another park around an old farmhouse with another unusual amount of iron nails and junk it happened again, I dug wheats and silver dimes at numbers again up into those same blocks of high 80's to low 90's ranges that repeated and had missed so many times before I learned and practiced this iron hunting method.
Cut to my current hunting location here in my red clay mineralized soil in parks in this city with even more helpings of iron besides that normal iron oxide that makes the dirt so red.
Everything I learned in those iron filled sites transferred to all the sites I hunt here.
The only targets that come in normal here are the really shallow ones and sometimes not even then.
An IH I dug a few months ago, you know, the kind that usually come in as a zincoln signal, was only about 1-2" deep but it still came in as a signal between a regular dime and a quarter due to some iron near it deeper.
Out of the ground, normal.
I have dug tons of wheats, several IH's a lot more silver dimes, a few war nickels, tokens galore and more after I moved back at many different sites all around the city, all of them came in much higher than normal and they get higher the deeper they go in this soil and then all returned to normal again when freed.
A silver war nickel dug at about 3" came in at the mid 60's, another one and a few buffs that were more into the 5-6" depth level were all back into those low 80's to low 90's again and a real deep V nickel at 7-8" was in the 90's consistently...yea, even nickels.
A silver dollar at 4" was a solid 98-98 from every direction, I dug that one because I never saw a signal like that before and it was solid, stable and sounded sweet in DP tones.
Again they all returned to normal away from that iron.
Even head stamps, bullets, tabs and other trash soars high here if they are past 3", just a fact in my world and part of the whole new language I had to learn to hunt in it successfully.
The only deep target that I can remember digging here that was deep that was entirely normal was a silver Masonic token that came in at a solid quarter signal every time from every direction ant it was very but of 7" deep.
In this spot was a patch of unusually mild black dirt without much of the normal mineralized properties most other black dirt around here still posses and no iron near it either.
This was fill dirt piled up near a fire station they had built on this site in this park in 1961.
Where the heck that dirt came from I haven't a clue and I have dug a couple other normal signalS in that dirt too but nowhere else.
So to recap....Iron doesn't combine with targets it lifts them way high, up averaging at its very essence.
Understand this and learn techniques and methods to notice these higher than normal signals and the world is yours.
There might be many other ways others use in iron sites also.
That is the great thing about these things, so many different ways and settings that can work well by different hunters to do the same thing.
