Different types of spikes....anyone know ages ?

[Blak bart]

The more I read about the age and dates for different types of ships spikes the more I get confused. Here are some different types I've found over the years. All of them are different. I think part of the confusion is in the definition of spike, nail, and pin. The long one im holding is a pin....the rest are spikes. Ive left out the smaller nails for now. So I've come to the conclusion that no 2 sources are in much agreement about the time periods of use. I know one of these spikes is a cast bronze piece with a seam....i was under the impression that a cast piece would be of a later time period than earlier....now I have others that say it could be very early. I do have a record of where they all were found....and it might be nice to know just how old these pieces are !! So what do you guys know about ships spikes ?

 

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[ARC]

 

[Blak bart]

I didn't know you were that good with spikes ARC. Well let's see if anyone agrees with your assessment. I was thinking that the middle spike in the second row was the oldest....possibly 16th century galleon.....back when spain was still building with bronze. The second one down from top I think your right about because it was out in front of preachers cave in eluthera....1680s-early 1700s....i think ?

 

[Blak bart]

View attachment 1862054

I like that ARC

 

[ARC]

Here is interesting read btw... especially since you own so many and prolly will find more.... it is a "pricey" book but perhaps you could buy a used copy... or maybe local library has a copy.

https://www.tamupress.com/book/9781585444519/ships-fastenings/

 

[Blak bart]

Still that document makes me believe that any number of mixed fasteners could be used on a single ship with multiple styles being represented. That big pin in my hand is a blind fastener for sure in my opinion....so not 100% sure its as late as 1900s.....its definitely not a bolt.

 

[Blak bart]

Oh and I keep forgetting downloading "e-book" version.

Me I am a "hands on book guy.

I want it on my shelf

I think I need that too....now I have to search for what I once read in my books too.

 

[Blak bart]

Thats definitely the book I want ARC...thanks bud that looks good !!

 

[ARC]

I still say... IMO... your top 2 are the oldest.

 

[ARC]

Lets see if others will chime in shall we.

 

[Blak bart]

Here we see 3 types of fasteners at once. Spikes,nails, and holes from trennels. But I still can't date this timber.....i have nothing but the fasteners....just a timber that was up in the mangroves and mud.

 

[Blak bart]

you could be very right ARC...im kinda at a loss with random finds like these.....would sure help me make a decision on which spot I should be looking around at.....and if I had 1500s era spikes coming up....well let's just say I'd love to spend more time and effort at those older sites !!

 

[Blak bart]

They pop up here and there on land too....last one came out of this rootball !!

 

[Alexandre]

....possibly 16th century galleon.....back when spain was still building with bronze.

If you find a copper alloy fastener it is either:

1) 99.9% dating from post 1770s;

2) 00.1% from a Roman wreck.

Spain, or any other seafaring nation, never used copper alloy fasteners in the 15, 16 or 17th centuries.

 

[ARC]

If you find a copper alloy fastener it is either:

1) 99.9% dating from post 1770s;

2) 00.1% from a Roman wreck.

Spain, or any other seafaring nation, never used copper alloy fasteners in the 15, 16 or 17th centuries.

I think you might slightly "off" on that date...

Beings there were patents made for hulls completely comprised of bronze in 1740... after a practice of such where the nails were nailed one by one... as close together as possible to produce a continuous "sheathing" / "skin"... as to prevent fouling of course.

 

[Alexandre]

Sheating nails are not fasteners...

Anyhow a patent is just that. You only start to see copper alloy fasteners in the Royal Navy after the Halifax fiasco in 1782

I think you might slightly "off" on that date...

Beings there were patents made for hulls completely comprised of bronze in 1740... after a practice of such where the nails were nailed one by one... as close together as possible to produce a continuous "sheathing" / "skin"... as to prevent fouling of course.

 

[Blak bart]

well blow me down.....if thats the case then many a great man has made a grievous mistake on there assumptions. Guess the one from a known and popular 1695 wreck is just a cross contamination thing. Well that narrows the dates down......but i guess it is beyond most experts to be able to give a date range on any of the pictured spikes above. I must say if you are right Alexandre I've learned a valuable lesson. Im still conflicted with the info out there....others don't seem to agree ?? Also when you ask this question no one seems to know that much and no one ever gives a definite age of the find over and over on many different sites. There's a couple threads here that must be very far off the mark according to your statement. Alexandre...you and i have rarely agreed on things but I do respect you opinion as an experienced underwater archeologist. I also feel really nieve and a bit embarrassed at assuming some of these spikes were of 17th or even 16th century in origin. I was shocked at your post but as is the case finding any info on dating copper alloy fasteners as you like to call them is difficult. Im still digging for the info I once read that stated that the early galleons1500s through mid 1600s were fastened in copper alloys.....and that later in efforts to reduce the shipbuilding costs that the cheaper iron fasteners became popular. Anyway thanks and let's see if anyone will challenge your assumptions !!

 

[Blak bart]

that might be one of the greatest eye opening and learning moments I've had here alexandre....a very significant piece of information no one ever told me....let me get this right.....all copper alloy ships fasteners brass, bronze, copper, muntz, etc. Are newer than 1770....generally speaking ??

 

[ARC]

I do not agree with Alex... Bart.

Fact does not support this claim.

1733 ships found on Florida's coast contain bronze spikes.

As well as 1715... 1721... and I can continue.

 

[ARC]

In case "proof" of my statement is needed...

Here is a photo of a 1733 coin encrusted TO a bronze spike recovered from wreck.