Werewolf caches in Germany

[Red James Cash]

I'm just curious whether or not any treasure hunters in Germany have been searching for, or stumbled upon, any of the werewolf caches hidden towards the end of WW2 . Fascinating stuff in my opinion. Would love to here about it.

 

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[oldcoon]

Fascinating stuff to be sure but I doubt you will get anybody to talk about it.

 

[Red James Cash]

Fascinating stuff to be sure but I doubt you will get anybody to talk about it.

Probably not but i figured it would be worth a shot.

 

[Westfront]

A lot of things were buried in the ground towards end of the war. Some due to marauding troops from both sides, some because they had to leave their properties. I have found caches with money(not much money), dug pots with the bible in, heard about people who found silver flatware... hey, i even found four hunting rifles along with scopes, binocular and ammo.
But i never heard about caches buried from the werewolf... Werewolfes are mostly a legend. In some areas was a little werewolf fighting after end of war from fanatic boys of the hitleryouth, but i doubt that they had any money to hide.
A far better place for caches from this time are the german properties which are now in poland. This people had to leave in a hurry and they never made it back... We had a thread not long ago in "todays finds" from a polish guy who is looking for this. Its amazing. But a very sad chapter in history...


Here is a pic from 162 coins buried after WWI. Nearly all are pretty much toasted.

 

[ivan salis]

in german --properly spelt --werwolf / wehrwolf ----as in nazi SS commando (deathhead) group. -- nazi plunder gold/ art / foreign money treasure caches

think of oddessa * escape group and the "fourth reich" funding types

whatever info there is is hard to come by * -- intelligence on them is hard to come by for a reason --(info on them was carefully hidden and kept hush hush--only now as they die are some of the details coming to the surface)--- powerful folks at the end of WW2 were often in on letting high ranking nazis escape (mostly to south america) --some let them escape for their pro nazi leaning "ideals" while others were paid off in various ways.

odessa existed of that there is solid proof -- that the nazis plundered art , gold and anything else of value they wanted where ever they went there is no doubt as its is well recorded they did so * post war some but not all of it was found and returned to the owners (or hiers of the owners as the "original" owners were often killed in death camps during the war)

the werwolfs set up in 1944 were ---young die hard nazi youth types that were formed into "nazi commando" groups for behind the lines attacks on allied forces -- some of them were reportly tasked with hiding money and other vaulibles to be used to help fund the odessa network and to help fund the the new "fourth reich" efforts in south america * being young these boy/men were to be the "nazi" leaders of the future 4th reich. -- like all WW2 era folks they are dropping dead at a rapid pace and only now as folks find out who these folks truely were as they go thru the old dead folks "papers and files" are these tales coming to the surface.

its highly doubtful anyone in germany would speak of finding a "werwolf" cache if they found it --at best its "blood money" and several groups of folks (people ripped off by the nazis) might try to lay claim to it if they opened their mouths about finding a werwolf type cache .

 

[clovis97]

Fascinating topic!!!!!

As an avid reader of WWII history, everything that I've read is exactly what Westfront has said.

If I am correct with this, the Werwolf movement was only big because Joseph Goebbels said it was. In reality, not much Werwolf activity took place.

FWIW, the Werwolf movement did worry the Allies at the end of the war, along with some other things. The US was interested in ending the war, so they sent their forces south to crush any pullback of the Germans. This allow the Soviets to continue westward, capturing all of Berlin, and more of Germany. The Allies under Eisenhower's command were justified in these action, and had reason to believe that the Nazis were planning on pulling back to the south.

What is interesting is that these military actions changed the geo-political landscape and changed the face of Europe for 50 years after the war.

I find it odd because the Nazis hated communists so badly...and with Goebbels running his mouth so much about the Werwolf movement...it brought millions of Germans, and half their nation, to be under the thumb of the Soviets for so long.

I'm no expert on this topic, but it is fascinating to me.

 

[Red James Cash]

But i never heard about caches buried from the werewolf... Werewolfes are mostly a legend

Sorry westfront i should of specified. I was talking more about the caches buried or hidden for the werewolf groups to operate with. Ive read a few accounts that some of those caches were big enough to allow a group to operate independently for a year or better. Ammo, guns,food, money, clothes. What you would have would amount to an instant museum collection if they did exist. Nice finds there

 

[Red James Cash]

If I am correct with this, the Werwolf movement was only big because Joseph Goebbels said it was. In reality, not much Werwolf activity took place.

One of the accounts ive read stated that at one time as many as 5000 agents were operating at one time or another. They were trained at Waidhofen camp. This information was taken from a war diary of a member, no name mentioned unfortunately. After hitler died he gave up on the idea of his werewolf activities and survived by using the hidden werewolf supply dumps for food and selling the supplies on the blackmarket.

 

[Westfront]

Hi Ivan! It was not easy for me to understand everything You wrote. Sorry for that but its not my native language.
There are two different things. The Werwolf/Wehrwolf groups with all the legends around them and the values hidden from groups like the SS, industrialists and the big shots from the nazi party. The fighting ended in 1945 but the war was lost 1943. Everybody who could get values tried to get as much as possible. From gold to jewelry to works of art. Think about the famous Bernsteinzimmer stolen in russia. Its still hidden somewhere in germany i think. Many people are looking for these caches. There are numerous mines in the former DDR where large amounts of whatever could be. I tried it one time to get in one of these tunnels...its dangerous.... We were looking for relics because many plants for building planes, tanks, rockets and so on were under the earth to the end of the war. But You never know what You might find. All this stuff must be somewhere...
If someone has found something he did good to keep his mouth shut. I dont trust our government, (like You dont trust Yours) so it is possible that a lot of these caches ar long found from underground organisations in our land.
For the Wehrwolf groups i didnt think You can get rich on that. I know a story well from a Wehrwolf like group in Schlesien (now south Poland)
Its true and well approved. They fought against russian troops until 1946. The wooden bunkers where they lived in are still there. They robbed the farmers to get food. After the russians made a raid against them they disappeared. Much gold and silver was left there. If this was "official" money or "only" plundered, i dont know...
@ James... i know what You mean. This must be smaller caches for small groups, but a lot of them. Im in detecting for 25 years now. I know a lot of people but i never heard anything about something like this. Maybe Bavaria Mike can help out. He lives in the southern part of germany, which was the last place to hide something and also a place where Wehrwolf stories are more common.
Sorry for my bad english, i hope You can understand what im talking about....

 

[Westfront]

One of the accounts ive read stated that at one time as many as 5000 agents were operating at one time or another. They were trained at Waidhofen camp. This information was taken from a war diary of a member, no name mentioned unfortunately. After hitler died he gave up on the idea of his werewolf activities and survived by using the hidden werewolf supply dumps for food and selling the supplies on the blackmarket.

This might happened. A lot of persons started a new life i such ways. You have to understand that at this time nearly everything with some kind of value was hidden in germany. Hidden from allied troops, from own troops, from the neighbor.... Food was more worth than coins. Food, cigarettes and coffee were the money of this time. Farmer made a fortune by swapping potatoes for jewelry....

 

[ivan salis]

your english is much better than my german -- I understand you just fine *
I found a very "interesting" item a while back --it was in a odd place for such a thing to be ***

at a yard sale --at a farm --I found a batch of old WW2 era farmers magazines --in one 1943 issue I found a 1935 nazi german worker travel pass for a trip on the nazi german CRUISESHIP vessel ( mount oliva) to south america

it was well known that in 1935 that nazi spy rings were sent to south america via nazi cruise trip vessels to whip up local south american support for the nazi movement and also to set up spy bases by living in south america -- think about it later on when the war came once these spy person came into the USA during the war -- once they got here either by coming in on forged papers or sneaking in somehow from south america what better way to gain accesss to the docks and local military bases (to find out convoy arriving /departing dates) than by bring food supplies ?--by knowing how much of what and when it was being delivered one could tell how many people and how far they were going and most likely when they were leaving --thus when the "convoy" leaving and most likely where they were "headed" for --great info to pass by radio to nazi subs lurking offshore

no american in 1943 would want to have any nazi marked items on them or around them --for fear of being labeled a spy (death sentance-in WW2) -- to keep somrthing like this would have been quite foolish --unless it was to be used to ID one nazi 'party" member to another --since only nazi party members got to go on these "reduced" priced nazi state supported "workers" cruises --the nazi spy network "headquarters" was set up in hamburg --exactly where the "mount oliva" left from at the start of this trip in 1935*

so why was this 1935 nazi marked "travel" pass for a south american cruise item found in a american farmers magazine dated june of 1943?--the box it was in had clearly been stored in the attic for a long long time and was full of WW2 era books and magazines.

nazi spys were often supplied with funds of the local country they were to operate in as well as gold --both to buy information with and to bribe folks with if found out to avoid being caught --( most knew it was a death crime to be caught as a spy)

 

[Kellyco]

in german --properly spelt --werwolf / wehrwolf ----as in nazi SS commando (deathhead) group. -- nazi plunder gold/ art / foreign money treasure caches

think of oddessa * escape group and the "fourth reich" funding types

whatever info there is is hard to come by * -- intelligence on them is hard to come by for a reason --(info on them was carefully hidden and kept hush hush--only now as they die are some of the details coming to the surface)--- powerful folks at the end of WW2 were often in on letting high ranking nazis escape (mostly to south america) --some let them escape for their pro nazi leaning "ideals" while others were paid off in various ways.

odessa existed of that there is solid proof -- that the nazis plundered art , gold and anything else of value they wanted where ever they went there is no doubt as its is well recorded they did so * post war some but not all of it was found and returned to the owners (or hiers of the owners as the "original" owners were often killed in death camps during the war)

the werwolfs set up in 1944 were ---young die hard nazi youth types that were formed into "nazi commando" groups for behind the lines attacks on allied forces -- some of them were reportly tasked with hiding money and other vaulibles to be used to help fund the odessa network and to help fund the the new "fourth reich" efforts in south america * being young these boy/men were to be the "nazi" leaders of the future 4th reich. -- like all WW2 era folks they are dropping dead at a rapid pace and only now as folks find out who these folks truely were as they go thru the old dead folks "papers and files" are these tales coming to the surface.

its highly doubtful anyone in germany would speak of finding a "werwolf" cache if they found it --at best its "blood money" and several groups of folks (people ripped off by the nazis) might try to lay claim to it if they opened their mouths about finding a werwolf type cache .

WOW. This thread had me hooked. I've never heard of this before! I'd LOVE to see what finding a Cache would look like! You could probably write a whole book on it!

 

[Westfront]

That is indeed very interesting... could be a spy... but why he took his ticket with him? Maybe he just tried to escape from germany this way? Otherwise, only "good" germans got the tickets for these ships...
I may be wrong, but german subs are at the coast not before the middle of the war. A long time to be a sleeper in the states.
A very rare item You have there! I would like to know the story behind! Just imagine the spy thing...such a piece of history in Your hands....

 

[ivan salis]

the ticket could be used as a form of "ID" the spy could show to another spy (see I'm one of you) --since only "loyal" nazi party members got to go on these "cruizes" *--if caught with it he could say well --its just a old cruise ship ticket

 

[Red James Cash]

Theres suppose to be a german espionage agent teams treasure buried on plum island Massachusetts. The story goes 4 men were dropped off by a uboat, only one made it alive to shore. He buried the supplies plus 100,000 in cash (most likely counterfeit) and disappeared into obscurity.

 

[ivan salis]

I live near jacksonville florida * --during WW2 there was a 4 man german team landed from a submarine - they came ashore in rubber raft near ponte vedra , florida * ( a bit to the south) and then travelled to jacksonville headed northward to chicago --a second team was landed near new jersey *-- they were to attack vital us war industries (which they never did -- because 2 of the 8 men rapidly got "cold feet" and turned themselves in to the FBI * before long the other 6 spies were caught as well -- after trail --the 2 that turned themselves in got life * --the six that did not give themselves up got the electric chair and were killed -- after the war was over several years the 2 living spys having served many years in jail were pardoned and sent to "home" germany

a large sum of money was went with the team * for living expenses , travelling , bribe money to buy info with and for payoffs to prevent being busted - in case they were found out.

the team in new jersy was spotted by a shore patrolling coast guards man --they tried to "bribe him with money to forget the whole thing --saying they were illegal fisherman and did not want trouble * --the coast guardsman knowing he was out numbered 4 to 1 -- pretended to accept the bribe --but then left and went to report them right away- upon his return with help however , they were gone but the cache they had buried on the nearby beach was found and thus they were exposed for what they really were . SPIES!!! -the hunt by the FBI was on then. -- that was why 2 of the spies got "cold feet" -- they remember the the coast guardsman spotting them upon arrivail , and felt they would be CAUGHT AND KILLED IF THEY ENGAGED IN ANY SPYING OR SABOTAGE .

my "travel" pass item above was found at a "estate sale" at a farm where a elderly man had died * -- all sorts of things from the house was placed in the yard for sale -- some were boxes that had clearly been stored in the attic for many many years * quite dusty and some of the boxes were roach or rat eatten upon ----in one of those boxes , I found a batch of world war 2 dated era american farming magazines --while leafing thru them --I found the 1935 era nazi "travel pass" for travel upon the M/S MONTE OLIVIA LEAVING FROM HAMBURG , GERMANY ON JULY 5TH , 1935 * ROOM 264 BERTH NO. 1 tucked away inside of of them --so I went online and looked up the vessels voyage run at that time (1935) -- it was quite interesting -- countries in europe visited were spain , portugal , france and england -- some islands in the caribbean and several ports in south america * all the ports visited in 1935 later on were known for being hotbeds of german spyng activity * during WW2-- so it appears that as far back as 1935 the nazi's were planting the seeds of their later on spying network.

the vessel was destroyed during WW2 as she was being used as a troop transport vessel to pull trapped german troops from being taken prisoner by the russians -- she was bombed and sank and was later broken up and removed as a hazard to navagation *

 

[Westfront]

You have a lot of knowledge Ivan! Very interesting to read about. I know about spys taken by subs to the states, but i never read in such detail. Large amounts of counterfait dollars were printed in germany during the war. As well with british pounds. Some was used for airmen in case of shotdown over enemy territory. The dollars should be used for bringing the states in inflation and of course for spy activities as well. A lot of this money was thrown into deep lakes in the alps to the end of war. This lakes were also used for testing secret weapons. Divers got a lot of this money, printing plates, torpedos, enigma machines and other stuff. Most is in very good condition because the lakes are cold and very low on oxygen. From time to time some of these bills appear on ebay.

 

[ivan salis]

THANKS -- i do a lot of research on many differant topics and subjects , I have a hungry mind which bores very easily if I do not keep up a steady input of new information --so I read massive amounts of books and do online research as well on all kinds of differant subjects. --

I can not stand being bored , a funny thing being that I was a seaman for almost 30 years * (going to sea if one does not find a way to stay mentally entertained can be very very boring indeed)- so I kept boredom at bay-- by reading heavily about the various countries I visited and their histories and by learning a bit of their langauges in many cases.

 

[Kellyco]

THANKS -- i do a lot of research on many differant topics and subjects , I have a hungry mind which bores very easily if I do not keep up a steady input of new information --so I read massive amounts of books and do online research as well on all kinds of differant subjects. --

I can not stand being bored , a funny thing being that I was a seaman for almost 30 years * (going to sea if one does not find a way to stay mentally entertained can be very very boring indeed)- so I kept boredom at bay-- by reading heavily about the various countries I visited and their histories and by learning a bit of their langauges in many cases.

I have my family reading this thread. It absolutely fascinates me. I agree! You are a wealth of info!

 

[ivan salis]

once again thank you * -- I often try to help folks with some of my odd and differant "off beat" knowledge that I have gained thru the years -- be forewarned however some knowledge can be very dangerous to know (there are some folks with certain secerts --that they want to never see the light of day --they do not want it to become "general public" knowledge * in some cases they will threaten, and even go as far as to harm or even kill people to keep that knowledge supressed)

so sometimes one has to be very careful as to where , how and from whom one obtains certain "information" and also be very very careful as well with whom you "talk" to it about as well.

I think the travel pass --might have belonged to a german spy planted here near jacksonville florida during WW2 --what better way to gain access to the local military bases and dockyards that by delivering food stuffs to them * --also by chatting with their food clerk type people --they could ask questions like --are you going to need another batch of -------- next week ?--replys like nah we're shipping out friday so we will not need another shipment --would tip off convoy departure dates * which could then be sent out by shortwave radio to offshore german submarines * --it is well known that a german sub dropped off a 4 man german sabotage ring group near ponte vedra , florida (just south of the jacksonville area ) and that they headed to jacksonville where they caught northbound trains .( ANOTHER GROUP OF 4 WAS DROPPED OFF IN NEW JERSEY AS WELL) -- due two the fact that 2 of them got "cold feet" due to being spotted by a roving beach patroling coastguardsman and turned themselves into the FBI -- the other 6 were rapidly caught before any of them were able to do any damage at all --all 8 were put on trail charged with spying and all 8 were found guilty---6 of the the 8 were electrocuted. --the 2 that turned themselves in got "life" but after many years in jail were finally paroled and sent back to germany --ALL OF THE ONES THAT DID NOT TURN THEMSELVES IN WERE ALL KILLED BY THE ELECTRIC CHAIR.

my fellow on the travel pass--- Valentine Koppel * might have been a "local" jacksonville agent / contact for them.

Ivan