Found Some WWII Nazi Items

[diggummup]

I purchased a small box full of WW2 memorabilia yesterday at an estate sale. The items belonged to an American soldier who brought them back from the war as souvenirs. Interestingly enough he was a Jewish soldier. The items included a bag full of coins in which I pulled out 14 silver pieces, the best being an 1888 Double Florin. Other items included about 150 postcards mostly from France and Germany including one of Hitler himself and another of a German soldier in uniform. There are many breast eagle wraps, a Iron Cross 2nd class, a Heim Ins Reich pin and small pennant flag, several uniform patches and a shoulder board, a 28" diameter swastika in a round border (looks like maybe the middle portion of a flag?), a letter stating the "captured equipment" being brought back by the soldier who owned the stuff. Some personal photos of camp life and some large photo (collage type) that I don't know much about yet. There is some other miscellaneous stuff as well. Now I need to figure out my best outlet to get rid of this stuff. Here are some pics-

 

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[diggummup]

Some more-

 

[BeachComber7]

Wow, so much history there!

 

[NOLA_Ken]

you need to join the Wehrmacht Awards Forum, and get your items authenticated. I have serious doubts on the collection of eagle patches, the chevrons and the rank pip, There are some out there that were never used, but repros are sold that almost exactly match the originals. One tip is to look at them under a blacklight. If the white thread glows at all they are not original. The Luftwaffe Eagle, and the epaulette look ok from the pic,

In pic #4 the ribbon bars are American, not German. The red and white is the Army Good Conduct Medal, I belive the blue with border is a Presidential Unit Citation, The other is the European African Middle Eastern Campaign Ribbon with Star, you can read up on it here : European - African - Middle Eastern Campaign Medal Ribbon (Model #:474 AREAMECMR)

I hope you got all real stuff there, but there are so many fakes and repros out there, you have to be really careful.

 

[Beans]

Great find. Would be interesting to read the documents, one is dated July 7, 1945. So very good chance all are real. I would like to find something like that.

 

[diggummup]

you need to join the Wehrmacht Awards Forum, and get your items authenticated. I have serious doubts on the collection of eagle patches, the chevrons and the rank pip, There are some out there that were never used, but repros are sold that almost exactly match the originals. One tip is to look at them under a blacklight. If the white thread glows at all they are not original. The Luftwaffe Eagle, and the epaulette look ok from the pic,

In pic #4 the ribbon bars are American, not German. The red and white is the Army Good Conduct Medal, I belive the blue with border is a Presidential Unit Citation, The other is the European African Middle Eastern Campaign Ribbon with Star, you can read up on it here : European - African - Middle Eastern Campaign Medal Ribbon (Model #:474 AREAMECMR)

I hope you got all real stuff there, but there are so many fakes and repros out there, you have to be really careful.

Thanks for the info. Nola_ken, I will check out the forum you mentioned. I already did the blacklight test, i'm familiar with that one from former American WW2 patches that I have bought and sold as well as other vintage textiles and ephemera. I knew the ribbon bar was his, just one that the family missed as well as a couple other items in there. Thanks for the ID on it.
I found a couple good sites for Military medal id's here- The OMSA Medal Database - Main Index - OMSA
and ribbons- Ribbon Review

I know there are many, many repros out there, especially with the breast eagle wraps. I have to believe the items to be authentic though. I was the first one at this estate sale that was being held by an Estate sale company. I know the lady who owns the estate sale company, so she let us in early. The son and daughter of the man to whom this stuff belonged to "Sgt. Irwin Fine" were still inside of the house going through his personal belongings. I happened to overhear the daughter tell her brother that "dad has a box of some wierd WW2 stuff with swastikas and stuff on it," the son replied with "yeah I know, that's stuff he brought back from the war that he got off of the enemy soldiers. I already got his medals and things out of it." She then asked if it was okay to sell it and he said yeah, he didn't want any Nazi Memorabilia (this is a nice Jewish family) around his house.

This conversation combined with the certificate letter stating "captured enemy military equipment" brought home by him, leads me to believe that it has to be real. There was not one thing in the box that is dated past Aug. 15, 1945 the day he departed France to return home. Also why would a WW2 veteran/Jewish dentist have reproduction Nazi memorabilia in a box of items he returned home from the war with? I will admit, stranger things have happened and i'm no expert so I will have them checked out for sure.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Well it sounds like you may have the real deal, I'm always wary with these things, I collected them for a while and I know how easy it is to get burned.

Anyway, your eagles look to be the "BEVO" type, and should be worth 60-80 each, the chevrons around 20 or so, the Lufwaffe eagle around 80 I'd think, and the Iron Cross.... You'll need to get some research to identify the maker first but 100 to a few hundred depending on maker and condition. There are some makers more desirable and scarce than others.

The prices I gave are just from memory though, and may be a bit out of date, but you definitely got a good score there!

 

[diggummup]

The maker on the Iron Cross is Deschler & Sohn I think, it has a number 1 on the ring. You know if it's a common maker? Also any ideas on the large Swastika that eveything is sitting on? It's round with a 28" diameter. It has been sewing marks around the entire circumference where it looks as if it was the center of a Nazi flag and has been detached from the red outer area. Any value in part of a flag?

I paid $150 for the box. I was worried if I had paid too much when I bought it, because it is a little out of my area of collecting. The letter I found in it, along with the conversation in the house prior to seeing the stuff kind of did it for me. That and there were some other things I purchased there, where I could make most if not all of my money back, if I did pay too much.

 

[diggummup]

Great find. Would be interesting to read the documents, one is dated July 7, 1945. So very good chance all are real. I would like to find something like that.

One is a voyage certificate stating that he returned home through the New York port of Embarkation from service overseas on the USS Gen. J.C.Breckenridge (AP-176) which left Marseilles, France on Aug.15, 1945.
The other is property certificate for the items of captured enemy military equipment being mailed by Irwin Fine. It certifies that they do not contain any explosives and that they are in conformity with the provisions of Sec III, Cir 353, WD 31 Aug 1944 and the existing regulations of the Theater Commander. Signed by 1st. Lt John L Smith 312 Fighter Control. There are a couple personal letters also.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

If it's a Deschler it could be worth around 300$ I can't authenticate it or even offer a guess without close up pics. The large swastika, could be either part of a banner or a flag, is it double sided? If only one side, it would be from a banner. It still has some value, although not nearly as much as it would if it were intact. I'm going to guess, maybe around the 80-100$ range, but that's purely guesswork.

Just re-read and noticed where you said it seems to have been stitched to a flag and removed. that'll make it harder to figure out than if it had just been cut out. I think my value might still hold true though. And keep in mind I haven't been actively collecting or dealing with that type of thing in a long time, so my numbers could be way off.

Thought I'd add, if you're looking to sell, your best bet might be to offer it all as a group, (the German stuff) along with the capture certificate.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Diggum, I would have had a hard time walking away from it with out buying it just from the history standpoint........Nice find....

 

[Bum Luck]

Ditto about the authentic concerns.

Right after WW2, the manufacture switched from Germany to Spain, using the same techniques (and parts) and the same folks that made them in WW2. There was an industry in England as well, but the quality was worse.

There is a sliding scale of quality from there.

Your best bet was to get them from a vet, like you did.

eBay doesn't allow the sale of most of those items.

Good luck.

 

[diggummup]

I'll post some close ups later after I get home. They look real good to me.

 

[vor]

=diggummup;2832735 Now I need to figure out my best outlet to get rid of this stuff.

Keep or sell the coins and US stuff. You should make out OK on the coins and the rest if you only paid 150. I would burn/trash the Nazi stuff or donate to a museum. Bad voodoo to profit off of it and keep it in circulation.
Though it is historical, there are too many sickos that get "inspired" by it. just MHO

 

[diggummup]

I appreciate your input and concerns however, I don't believe in voodoo and profit is my main objective. I'll hold onto it until the next Militaria Collectibles show comes to town and then i'll sell it or trade it off for something more to my liking. There is enough fake crap out there already to inspire the sickos, my piddling amount of artifacts isn't gonna upset the balance of nature.

 

[creeper71]

I appreciate your input and concerns however, I don't believe in voodoo and profit is my main objective. I'll hold onto it until the next Militaria Collectibles show comes to town and then i'll sell it or trade it off for something more to my liking. There is enough fake crap out there already to inspire the sickos, my piddling amount of artifacts isn't gonna upset the balance of nature.

Dig's Hertitage auction www.HA.COM has WWII auctions contact them..

 

[diggummup]

Dig's Hertitage auction www.HA.COM has WWII auctions contact them..

I'll check it out.

 

[diggummup]

Here are a few close up shots of some of the things-

Iron Cross with #1 on the ring.
3 piece construction the center is sandwiched between the two outer "silvered" portions.

 

[diggummup]

Breast Eagles

 

[NOLA_Ken]

From your pics I feel comfortable saying the EK2 is a Deschler & Sohn. It looks spot on to me. I'd say in the 250 - 300$ range for it. Very good score! The patches also look good in the pics, so all in all I'd say you did really well on the lot.