copper body armor

[hmmm]

HI ALL
Not sure if this fits here , but what i have is a piece of copper that i think is a piece of body armor. it had woven bark covering it and i found it about 20 inches down.
it came from a island on the west side of Vancouver island. it was possibly connected to a seafaring people as it was found in the bush behind a beach in a calm lagoon.
there was a bronze looking spike near it as well. ill try post pictures, un fortunately the site is no longer available to detect.
have a look at the pictures and give me some feedback.

 

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[hmmm]

Originally Posted by xxxx

Some detector companys love to exaggerate armor bark depths just to sell detectors. .

wtf?

I have no idea what he was talking about and his post is gone now. i think he was questioning how my detector could pick up the bark so deep.
the answer is, it picked up the huge piece of copper not just the bark.
he asked that i should take it to a museum to get it identified.
i live in bc Canada and it is against the law to pick up artifacts older then 150 years old. bc authorities do not want to see history unfold. i call it hiding history.
if i take to get it identified, i risk getting charged for finding such a important artifact.
i do think it is Chinese and there has been other artifacts found, but because of the laws they remain hidden from history.
The Tyee – Did Ancient Drifters 'Discover' British Columbia?
If a boat sinks, it is clasified a herritage ship in just 2 years and removing artifacts is against the law.

 

[whosle]

Hmmm.

This is mind-blowing.


Please send me a private message.

 

[Get-the-point]

Hmmm.

This is mind-blowing.

I agree with that assessment......That is a incredible piece of history and please be extremely careful not to lose that bark. You have found something that is possibly extremely rare and in that condition it can be studied and I would encourage that. The copper culture is still being re-written and this find can change some things. I know I have never seen any copper culture artifact that contained any of the wood or hafting techniques left. You have a piece of history and one hell of a find!!! You really need to have archy's look at that and document it. I feel this piece is possibly very important and should warrant a follow up to the site for further exploration possibly to find what is left of it. I know you did not pull up every fragment of the wood bark with it and that is something the archy's would have done. So this is important!!.By your post it might appear to be the spot where the primitive might have passed away.....................Please keep us updated!!!!

 

[GatorBoy]

What you have there looks like a piece of copper sheathing used to cover the bottom of wooden ships in the late eighteenth century through early nineteenth century after the change from lead sheathing. The woven "bark" is most likely a burlap type material coated with tar. You should post this in the shipwreck forum. Also... The spike is a bronze ship spike. Nice finds..just not what you thought.

 

[unclemac]

What you have there looks like a piece of copper sheathing used to cover the bottom of wooden ships in the late eighteenth century through early nineteenth century after the change from lead sheathing. The woven "bark" is most likely a burlap type material coated with tar. You should post this in the shipwreck forum. Also... The spike is a bronze ship spike. Nice finds..just not what you thought.


The bark is woven cedar strips, very common material in your area and the whole of the PNW. Cedar peels off in easy to harvest strips and was used for a variety of things including clothing (outerwear). I agree with Gator, the copper is most likely from a ship's hull. This was a valuable trade item and was often made into the iconic coastal "coppers" that were given names and had great prestige...often associated with potlatches. Your copper piece looks unworked and was perhaps "stashed" as it was still a valuable item as raw material. The spike could be a pounded out ships spike that was made into a knife, which is also pretty normal.

 

[GatorBoy]

All very interesting.... but come on... he found parts of an old ship on the edge of a body of water... the rest to me is just fanciful thinking.

 

[unclemac]

...your kidding right?.....read up on the PNW coastal culture....ships copper is very important.

 

[GatorBoy]

In reference to what he has ... in this post.... no I'm not kidding. All that other information is fine and very interesting.. but does not directly apply to what is evident in these photos. The spike is not hammered into a knife.. the sheathing is unworked because it came off of a ship and was washed ashore.

 

[Get-the-point]

His explanation is logical i'm out of this one. I have seen a handful of copper culture artifacts and wish i could help more......great find though!!!..............GTP

 

[GatorBoy]

His explanation is logical i'm out of this one. I have seen a handful of copper culture artifacts and wish i could help more......great find though!!!..............GTP

It is a great find... and I only wish you were still able to detect in that area. I have more than a little shipwreck experience and what you found there usually leads to some great detecting finds.

 

[Tnmountains]

Hey Hmmm
Long time no see. Agree the weaving seems to be cedar bark from the picture but as always it is hard to tell from a picture. The copper in it's shape flatness and so forth would look like something off a ship. I know there is old shipping in the area you hunt from your past post. So were the two items found together and what gives you the idea that they went together as armor. I see no shape or holes to indicate armor. Or any way to attach them. I have kinda studied armor believe it or not as a past time I teach/coach U.S olympic style fencing. Though we do not wear armor now and only lames it was something I studied with the history of the sword. I am unaware of Indians wearing copper armor. To me it looks like the following.
1. Woven cedar as Unclemac stated
2. Bronze spike natural ancient shipping as Gator Boy said it does not appear to be hammered
3. Random copper possibly from a ships hull- Gator Boy
The only item that may be North American Indian is the woven mat. Cool finds hmmmm.

 

[GatorBoy]

In many cases a layer of tar was added to the Hull then covered with matting..be it ceader or not...before the copper was nailed to the bottom. This would seal the nail holes and protect the wood from water damage.

 

[jamey]

interesting post,gator boy your pretty sharp.

 

[hmmm]

Hmmm.

This is mind-blowing.

I agree with that assessment......That is a incredible piece of history and please be extremely careful not to lose that bark. You have found something that is possibly extremely rare and in that condition it can be studied and I would encourage that. The copper culture is still being re-written and this find can change some things. I know I have never seen any copper culture artifact that contained any of the wood or hafting techniques left. You have a piece of history and one hell of a find!!! You really need to have archy's look at that and document it. I feel this piece is possibly very important and should warrant a follow up to the site for further exploration possibly to find what is left of it. I know you did not pull up every fragment of the wood bark with it and that is something the archy's would have done. So this is important!!.By your post it might appear to be the spot where the primitive might have passed away.....................Please keep us updated!!!!

YES IT IS AMASSING,
It came from the bush 100 feet behind a beach at a depth of about 23 inches. definitely not from a ship and i still stand by my theory it is a piece of copper body armor.
The dilemma i am at is, the site is now treaty land and i have been warned to stay away and not to try dig up history.
10 to 7 years ago, i tried to get attention to the finds i found, but after 10 years and 7 different officers investigating me for allegedly disturbing artifacts, they never charged me want it out of the station.
All the stuff i handed over to the rcmp, all evidance of white history, has been handed to the Indians for hiding.
Ill give you a example, we found a murder victim that was over 100 years old, he had this badge,
a cross ect
we call him badge guy , he was laid against a small rock bluff and had a hole put in his head, part of the skull was covering this cross , i thought it was a piece of wood.
Getting to the point , on the 17th the indians are having a ceremony and are going to take this stuff back to badge guy and are going to call him a Indian and re bury it so it can never be found.
i think they killed him 100 years ago and think its wrong to re bury him as a indian.
the tiny island where he rests is now treaty land and is off limits to me.

Wholse , Keep reading and yes its 100 % the truth, ill get back to you.

 

[GatorBoy]

Whatever bro.. 100 feet from the beach is nothing in a big storm. Remember that was attached to wood that was floating at the time. A couple feet down is not uncommon at all. I'm from the "treasure coast" in Florida... I know what I'm saying. Make it whatever you want. It's probably off limits Partly because it's a shipwreck site.

 

[GatorBoy]

interesting post,gator boy your pretty sharp.

Thanks

 

[GatorBoy]

Here's a thought.... put salt on it and let it sit out in the Sun. it should turn to gold.

Just kidding with you man.. good luck.

 

[wells]

Until proved otherwise i'll regard these artifacts non-indian . The spike piece looks more modern than ancient and dose'nt look related to copper culture - to me anyway.

 

[hmmm]

Until proved otherwise i'll regard these artifacts non-indian . The spike piece looks more modern than ancient and dose'nt look related to copper culture - to me anyway.

the spike was not with the copper, but it is old and is hand pounded, my guess 1700's.