1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

[Rob66]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

That is so cool......Nice. The man is there.
Hope he doesn't want his picture back....just kidding.
RD

 

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[Joe G]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

OK, I know a couple of people have tried their hand at making the pic clearer, but I figured I'd show you a photoshop edit of the pic. I didn't add anything to the face... just used a tool to bring out the highlights. I did take the liberty of removing some of the marks. Thanks for the great post of an awesome find!!!

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Thanks Joe, I really hope the silver oxide on the portrait clears up when the conservation process begins. I hope

There really is not too much copper corrosion damage on the portrait itself, most of it is where the copper matte plate was against the Daguerreotype.

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Donny - I found this while looking for other stuff... thought I would share it with you...

Jim, thanks for the research, the matte (decorative copper/brass piece) that is applied directly against the photo is very similar and I did some looking at more old photos yesterday and found a couple more matte's with the basic same design and shape and I believe all of them were dated around 1858, so perhaps the date of my photo might be getting narrowed down to that time frame, give or take a year or two.

Don

 

[LadyDigger]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Don...have you done any title/deed research on the property? That may give you some idea who may have owned that land, but that does not necessarily mean this man lived there. He could have given that photo to a young lady who lived there....he sure was a handsome fella! Looks to be somewhere about mid-20's...(Maybe in the age range of 18-25)

Can't wait to see the outcome! I hope I can find something like that in the future!!!
Annmarie

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Don...have you done any title/deed research on the property? That may give you some idea who may have owned that land, but that does not necessarily mean this man lived there. He could have given that photo to a young lady who lived there....he sure was a handsome fella! Looks to be somewhere about mid-20's...(Maybe in the age range of 18-25)

Can't wait to see the outcome! I hope I can find something like that in the future!!!
Annmarie

Annmarie, once I am done with the restoration I will pursue all avenues on the ID or at minimum narrow down the date. Thanks to Jim (MT) and then me later finding a few more similar matte frames it is looking like the late 1850's for a time frame. If so, there is an outside chance, that the photographer might have a mark on the back of the plate obscured now by corrosion, and what is interesting there, a Daguerreotype Photographer was located in the closet town at that time frame and his last name is the same as mine. (But would not be related)

Today I cut a new piece of glass for the frame (took 9 tries until I got a piece that was right or did not break). I also restored the matte frame and I cleaned and removed corrosion on the outside frame. So all is ready now except for that minor detail of restoring the photo!

I am waiting for a few hopefully helpful ideas to come in during the next few days and in the mean time I am still researching as many avenues as I can think of gaining more knowledge on how to go forward with the final step, restoring the photograph.

Attached is a photo of the before and after of the matte copper plate that I worked on today. After two days of soaking in distilled water, I put it in a solution bath of distilled water and ammonia, mixture 50/50. To my delight I literally watched the solution start turning blue as the cuprous chlorides started to dissolve. An occasional use of cotton swabs and a little bit of Dremel polishing and I was very satisfied with the results. Considering the damage the corrosion caused to the metal, I think it came out fairly decent.

Don

 

[LadyDigger]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

OMG...that turned out beautifully!!! Great Job You DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for that person having the same last name as yours...don't be surprised if you find out they are like some 8th cousin to you...it is a small world afterall And if it turns out you are related...how awesome would that be, that you found a piece of work done by a relative many years before!!!

We ALL wait PATIENCELY for the final results...you are doing an awesome job!!!

If you would like assistance further down the road (i.e., census records) ... let me know...or maybe even newspaper articles (might be an advertisement for this person photo studio!!!)....be happy to look!
Annmarie

 

[Mental Granny]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Each updated photo is better than the last its realy exciting, seeing the process! Can't wait for more!

 

[Colonial Copper Zeus]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Cool find for sure
Chris

 

[River Rat]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Each updated photo is better than the last its realy exciting, seeing the process! Can't wait for more!

I totally agree with Mental Granny. Don, this post is extraordinary...Banner!!

RR

 

[roswellborn]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Don, that is just awesome. The photo itself, the cleanup of the frame, the works. Just tremendous.

On the page that someone posted
( http://infoshare1.princeton.edu/libraries/firestone/rbsc/mudd/online_ex/dags/conserve/electro.shtml ) it mentions that they use "ammonium hydroxide" - Is that the same thing as plain ol' ammonia? And then they put it through several "solvent baths" - but they don't say what solvent they use.

I wonder if that solvent they use is something that makes the ammonia/ammonium hydroxide inert - to stop any further chemical reaction. You might wanna find a chemist - surely there's someone here on TNet! - that could put his/her 2¢ in on that.

Something that occurs to me about using ammonia - there's a "natural dye" mixture that some weavers have used that involves using ammonia (and water) with a foot of copper pipe placed in it. Depending on the strength of the ammonia, and how long it sits, the copper actually dissolves - making a spiffy dye for wool or cotton. But the copper dissolves!

Now, what the weaver does to make the dye stuff environmentally safe to pour out (sorta neutralize the ammonia), is simply add an egg to the solution and stir it in. When it turns black, it's safe to pour down the drain or wherever. Maybe some kind of solution using an egg stirred into water would be the equivalent to that unnamed "solvent" - ? Dunno. Maybe experiment first using older pennies?

Anyway, awesome find, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the transformation,

HH
Nan

 

[FlatCat]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Don't use older pennies. Send all your older pennies to me. I will send you in return an equivalent weight of copper pipe scraps from work to use for a test. Or ask a plumber or electrician friend for some of their scraps.

 

[Baldingboy]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Man...that is truly a banner find and your doing an incredible job of restoration as well. Kudos to you on that! I will be sure to watch this post!! Thanks for a thrilling read.

Baldingboy

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Don, that is just awesome. The photo itself, the cleanup of the frame, the works. Just tremendous.

On the page that someone posted
( http://infoshare1.princeton.edu/libraries/firestone/rbsc/mudd/online_ex/dags/conserve/electro.shtml ) it mentions that they use "ammonium hydroxide" - Is that the same thing as plain ol' ammonia? And then they put it through several "solvent baths" - but they don't say what solvent they use.

I wonder if that solvent they use is something that makes the ammonia/ammonium hydroxide inert - to stop any further chemical reaction. You might wanna find a chemist - surely there's someone here on TNet! - that could put his/her 2¢ in on that.

Something that occurs to me about using ammonia - there's a "natural dye" mixture that some weavers have used that involves using ammonia (and water) with a foot of copper pipe placed in it. Depending on the strength of the ammonia, and how long it sits, the copper actually dissolves - making a spiffy dye for wool or cotton. But the copper dissolves!

Now, what the weaver does to make the dye stuff environmentally safe to pour out (sorta neutralize the ammonia), is simply add an egg to the solution and stir it in. When it turns black, it's safe to pour down the drain or wherever. Maybe some kind of solution using an egg stirred into water would be the equivalent to that unnamed "solvent" - ? Dunno. Maybe experiment first using older pennies?

Anyway, awesome find, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the transformation,

HH
Nan

Nan, it is amazing how what you think is a simple find turns out to be something special, another one of those relics that I will most likely never find another one again, so I am making the most out of doing the best I can on this restoration.

I posted the Princeton web info you refer to and I am sure the Ammonion Hydroxide is just plain ole household Ammonia. What the site does not explain is the amount of proportions.

You are correct on Ammonia dissolving the copper chlorides, that is exactly what happened on the mat copper plate and outside case. The 50/50 mixture of distilled water and Ammonia, literally dissolved the blue encrustations away into the solution which turned blue in color.

My fear is that if I do this on the photo itself that the dissolved copper chlorides might adhere/stain to the good portions of the photo, turning it blueish. I don't think that will happen, but I will be overcautious on how I proceed. I did read that it is possible that where the copper corrosion is the thickest that a ugly black spot might be left when removing the blue/green spot, hopefully that will not happen, or not to a great extent.

On Sunday the portrait is getting a bath! I feel confident the distilled water bath is the next step, hopefully stabilizing any corrosion before I proceed with any procedure after that, which right now I am thinking of a 4 parts distilled water to 1 part Ammonia bath. If that goes well but does not remove enough of the copper chlorides (blue/green junk) I will then increase the Ammonia to 50/50 as I had with the copper mat plate and outside cover.

I did some research on the owner of the property in the mid 19th century and have two possible surnames, LOL, one is Smith and the other Scull. Scull had a son who would have been in his late 20's in the late 1850's, but wow, all conjecture only rough research by me so far. Afterall, this could be the dropped photo of anybody, or even dropped by someone who lived there it could be the husband of a daughter, and then the research gets harder.

Don

 

[imafishingnutt]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Tried to clean it up keeping it natural

 

[LadyDigger]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

You know...when I was messing with the photo and then saw what two others did with it...it almost seems to me that this guy had BLUE EYES!!!!! I can see the color in the eyes....well, I can!!

Just thought I'd mention that
HH,
Annmarie

 

[Don in SJ]

Restortation Step 1

At noon today I immersed the photo in distilled water and immediately took a photo for a "before " shot, since I have read that some Daguerreotypes actually improve 20-50% after being immersed in distilled water.

However, the reason I am doing it is to neutralize the corrosion taking place. I believe I will keep it in this water for 24 hours. Unless I suspect something going astray.

Next Step, will be critical in the restoration, that will be a possible soak in Ammonia and distilled water. For that I am going to go very slowly, and just first expose a non viewing area to the solution, an area where the mat plate covers the portrait, where most of the copper chlorides are anyway............

Have not done any more research on Who it might be or the photographer, that will have to wait.

Don

 

[Mental Granny]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED- 2 March

LOOKS GOOD I AM KEEPING MY FINGERS CROSSED!

 

[lostcauses]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED- 2 March

Note: that use of Ammonia and water (Ammonium hydroxide) can remove the silver oxides. Will be interesting to see how this comes out.

 

[COUNTRY GIRL]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED- 2 March

Wow this is an awesome post! Definately banner material. If anyone can clean that up to perfect it's you Don! Good luck!