17 Tons of gold in New Mexico

Oroblanco

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I was looking for more comprehensive information on this legend and found the following research paper in a public forum document folder, copied from an unnamed source. I'm posting it as a free use item, unedited. All copyright privileges belong to its original author, whomever that may be. Some of the details may not be totally accurate, IMO.

There's a lot of detail here. Some of it strengthened the story, some of it weakened it for me.

If this material is accurate, and the events actually happened, it's inferred that Trabuco located the cache within a half-hour drive of Shiprock (the monolith).




The Four Corners Story

History & Research
April 15, 1933 Cuenavaca, Mexico

Meeting: Called by venture investment banker Rafael Borega
Subject: Futures gold market, U.S. controlled
In attendance 1. Leon Trabuco, - wealth miner, inherited, rancher from the Cihuahua district.
2. Ricardo Artega {Arteaga} - wealthy rancher from Torreon
3. Carlos Sepulvada - wealthy rancher, bull raiser from Coahuila district.
4. Professor Morado - Mexican economical counsel of the Univ. of Mexico
Rafael Borega had evidence the U.S. may set a gold standard at least $10.00 above the then current world price of $20.67 per ounce. Borega brought Professor Morado to the meeting for a professional opinion and he, the professor was represented as an insider to U.S. policies. Rafael Borega - Spanish/Mexican Euro and North American international banker.

U.S. data supplied to all attending the meeting by Professor Morada:

1. On the fifth of April - 1933 President Roosevelt of the United States issued the first executive order concerning gold standard, forbidding U.S. citizens from hoarding or owning private gold. Only miners and refiners could hold gold and they were to sell the metal to the U.S. federal mints as processed. FDR further proposed to congress, that a U.S. gold act law be enacted and passed to stabilize the depression years and the devaluation of the U.S. dollar. Committees went to work on a law draft. The finance committee had the law prepared by late 1933 and after presented to congress was passed after winter adjournment in 1934.

January 17 - 1934 signed into law by FDR as the Gold Act. The federal reserve set the first price of gold at $35.00 per troy ounce. Making the Fort Knox federal reserve stronger and foreign debts easier to amortize. This afforded FDR?s rebuilding and new deal socialist policies.

2. Professor Morada had forecasted these events properly at the Mexico meeting of 1933. The Mexican group became known as Trabuco's group. Trabuco's group at the meeting proposed to purchase all the Mexican gold available at the $20.67 or less price, store and hold these for future U.S. sales.

Professor Morada had forcast the gold may go as high as $40/per ounce by 1935-36. He cited many factors such as the U.S. stock crash of 1929, rebuilding and the U.S. bank collapse. The group were gamblers and Trabuco already stored gold from his mines where he often retained seven to ten tons for speculations and or use as needed.

Profits were projected in a short time frame of at least 30% gain or over.

Professor Morada designed the plans where the Mexican nationals could smuggle the gold out of Mexico with ease and avoid Mexican laws which prohibited this. As only Mexican federal mints would handle Mexican produced gold. {By law} The group would remove all the gold they accumulate in 1933 in Mexico, to the U.S.. There also existed small private Mexican miners who sold gold for cash, non recorded at the federal mint for as little as $15.00 per ounce.

Trabuco was to be the moving agent and U.S. storage provider.

Note: only two among the group raised any questions at all. Ricardo Atrega asked, "What if the U.S. federal will not purchase the gold from us"? Profesor Morada replied, "We have always smuggled and sold on the Spain and Euro markets, avoiding our government's inquiring eyes, this is no different and there is no Mexican border officials checking outgoing peoples."

The group seemed satisfied and with Trabuco setting his gold in the deal, the others pooled monies with the investment banker, Rafael Borega to start immediate purchase of gold.

Borega set up a shop at Puebla Mexico with a small smelter and passed the word to the southern placer miners that there was a purchaser at Puebla. Other miners, even from the north traveled to Puebla to avoid sales to the monitored federal mint where government taxes were deducted and mine data was too often divulged to others.

Leon Trabuco apparently had eight tons stored prior to this deal being put together, it is thought Ricardo Artega supplied four tons from both his hoard and some clandestine purchases.

Carlos Sepulvada from Coahuila supplied most of the investment monies for Rafael Borega to purchase the estimated five tons of private gold. A later investigative U.S. reporter states the Sepulvada family lost 36 million pesos at the 12.5 exchange rate = three million U.S. dollars. Quite a sum in 1933. That amount would purchase five tons circa 1933 or 146,000 ounces at $20/per ounce. In any event between Chihuahua and Puebla Mexico the group had by the end of 1933 - 17 tons of gold to move.

It only required two months to June 1933 for the tons to accumulate and Sepulvada had expired all he was going to invest. Leon Trabuco had supplied refiners and molds to the Puebla project and the expertise to stamp these ingots as 99 pure fine.

Trabuco was elected to make the arrangements to move the bullion, store it and disburse to sales when the time was right.

Circa August 1933 - Trabuco and two trusted employees drove a 1932 near new Dodge truck over the Nogales border crossing. There they registered their rifles and made visitors visa, stating they were on their annual deer hunting trip. They passed without incident and proceeded through Arizona to New Mexico's Four Corners area.

There the three, could rent a hotel room and visit relatives without attracting too much attention. They stated to the locals that they had Colorado deer permits and would be driving into Colorado on occasions. No one suspected their plans.

Trabuco scouted around for remote ranches for rent and or a landing spot out of sight of population. Once he located a safe sheep camp high on a mesa top, he set to clearing a landing strip and markers to guide the plane in.

Trabuco asked around the area farmers near Farmington about strong crop dusting planes. From the knowledgeable farmers he learned of a group from Salt Lake City, Utah, came into the area during the summer months to spray the fields.

Trabuco called the Salt Lake Flyers and obtained the name of one of their best flyers. Bill Elliot. {William C. Elliot} He owned a Stearman plane which had conversions on it for heavier loads. The Stearman had a new Pratt & Whitney engine of 440 horse power and extra fuel tanks for long runs. Trabuco convinced Elliot it would be worth his time to fly from Bloomfield and have a meeting. In fact Trabuco wired Elliot $200 fuel monies to insure he came. Trabuco landed at a private farm near Kirkland, New Mexico. Halfway between Farmington and Shiprock City. {Not the rock Shiprock}

The two gentlemen struck a deal. Elliot was elated, the crop dust season was nearly over and spending a winter out of Utah and getting paid well was even better. Trabuco agreed to supply the fuels, the stop groceries and $2,500 U.S. per flight from Chihuahua to the secret strip. Elliot would also for secrecy purposes receive 5% of the profit from the eventual sales to remain secret. The remainder of the year was spent moving the bullion from Mexico to Four Corners.

Trabuco had flown south with Elliot the first trip to arrange loading and apprise his people there, that Elliot was authorized to pick up the gold on several upcoming trips. Trabuco returned on the first flight with Elliot and 1500 pounds of gold. The trusted Mexican peons of Trabuco's had made a small camp shelter and with rented horses patrolled the area. The area was isolated and no traffic.

The promontory it set on had a view to all areas and a steep cliff bordering it on three sides. No roads but a small trail the peons had widened for Trabuco's truck to use. The peons had used the rocks from an old Indian Hogan to construct the landing site towers, destroying one Hogan and part of another. The Hogan nearest the guard shed, had a sunken floor ground floor. There thepeons removed the gold from the plane, laid it in the sunken pit. Covered it with a tarp and then placed sand over it.

When five tons would accumulate, Trabuco would appear on the mesa. He would have it loaded on his truck, one ton at a time. He would leave the peons there by the Hogan site and travel in an easterly direction to a pre-designated hiding cave. It would takeapprox. 1 hour round trip. It would take three flights for Elliot to bring in another five tons of gold. Elliot is said to have made ten flights between August 1933 to November 1933 to move the entire stash. From Torreon to the U.S. border is 600 miles and 1000 miles on to the Four Corners site.

Records indicate that Trabuco purchased fuel at the border, U.S. side Nogales and at Winslow, Arizona. It was stated later by one of the peons relatives at Bloomfield, Trabuco had purchased several shovels and tools at the hardware store.

This venture seemed more of an adventure to Trabuco than a profit making project. He is said to like ventures of many sorts. The mystery and the planning was his life blood. He had old Spanish new world riches beyond belief. The partners were not so well off.

January 17, 1934. The U.S. Gold Act was signed and enacted. There followed an immediate order for all banks, storage refiners and brokers to turn in their gold to the federal mints for paper monies. At the exchange rate of $35.00 per ounce. However tied to the act was an addendum which required all private citizens to turn in their gold or face illegal storage laws violations.

It became illegal to sell to anyone but the federal mints. It became illegal to export or sell to foreigners. The Mexican group was elated but mixed up as to how the laws may eventually effect their plans. By late 1934, Professor Mroada advised the group to hold the gold longer, as he predicted further U.S. dollar devaluation and a higher price for gold. The participants Trabuco and Artega elected to wait. The investment banker, Rafael Borega, voted to sell because any and all profits were tied to the sales profits. Carlos Sepulvada voted to sell, he had hard cash in the deal and wanted part sold to at least retrieve his cash.

Ricardo Artega stated he would leave all the decisions uo to Trabuco and the vote was tied and dissension started within the group. Trabuco asked Professor Morada to vote, but he declined stating that he was an advisor only and had no vote.

Trabuco agreed to go to the U.S. in late 1935 and start partial sales. Trabuco returned to Mexico to report it may be near impossible to sell within the U.S. and other plans must be reviewed. He learned at Denver, no private broker would touch foreign gold. Trabuco's plan was to acquire a trusted Latino U.S. citizen partner, file a mining claim and filter the bullion through the mine records to the federal mint sales.

It was learned from a Denver bookkeeper that by the time the U.S. mint handled such a large scale, federal tax authorities may step in to investigate and secure some of the sales monies. A slow sale may work but this would take a lot of time and eventual mine books and records of expenses with tax forms would need to be filed.

Meetings in Mexico and plans were discussed. Time went by and by the 1939, the U.S. had held the control price of $35.00 per ounce and plans were made to acquire U.S. citizens to help in the sales. Rafael Borega, stated he could move the gold sales to Germany if the group could get it back to Mexico. Borega died in his office in mid 1939 from a heart seizure. In 1940, Trabuco inquired at the German embassy in Mexico City and received a cold shoulder and was treated as an agent of the U.S., trying some plan to get the German embassy expelled from Mexico. In which would destroy their future plans of access to the U.S.

In 1940, Carlos Sepulvada was killed in a drunken auto accident outside Monterey, Mexico.

Leon Trabuco traveled to Utah to meet Elliot in 1941 and related the causes of the delays. Elliot stated he would seek out some solution if he could. At that time, only Trabuco survived as an investor and only the Sepulvada family survivors complained for solutions. Trabuco satisfied the Sepulvada family by paying them their losses with no profits.

Trabuco was now the sole owner of a large stash, which was near worthless where it lay.

In 1942, William Elliot enlisted in the U.S. Army Air Corps and after a short training period was ready for fighter pilot duties over Europe. Lieutenant Elliot was listed as killed in action over Germany in 1943. Hence only Trabuco survived the clandestine group after WW II.

In 1947, Trabuco had approached several underground buyers and alleged experts to help him sell off the cache. One of these from Denver leaked the information to U.S. treasury officials.

Trabuco not knowing he was under scrutiny and investigation, approached an attorney in Denver to represent him in an attempt to make a legal sale to the U.S. mint. His offer to the treasury was: He would allow the government to obtain the gold through an escrow account at the $20.67 per ounce and he would get out of the deal at a break even figure and allow the U.S. the profits of the difference. The Denver attorney would nor divulge Trabuco's name to the treasury and learned the treasury had determined the gold had entered the U.S. illegally against both U.S. and Mexican laws.

If the Denver attorney's client would come forward, turn the gold in and file a counter suit for the rights to values in money less U.S. taxes they would co-operate.

No fool would ever fall for that one and Trabuco remained obscure. The Denver attorney received several threats from the treasury department, but some wiser federal attorney foresaw the client privilege laws overriding the treasury in courts and elected to advise no action.

President Truman was consulted concerning Trabuco's offer and the White House Counsel advised him to avoid the deal. The proper authorities would eventually trap the foreign seller.

In 1952, another attempt by an attorney from California was made with the treasury for a deal for Trabuco. Again this was turned down as the government had military agents posted in the Farmington area in flight searches for the alleged site. The Justice dept. was aroused by the treasury and in 1953 the evidence and some names were turned over to a federal grand jury for indictment. The evidence presented to the grand jury included secret files of the 1950 investigations which followed Trabuco's activities around.

A prominent Los Angeles cattle man named George Luckey had reported to the Secret Service in 1950 the facts he had been asked by an associate to act as an inter-mediator involved in the illegal sale of a large amount of foreign gold. Luckey stated the amount stated to him was from a Los Angeles area public relations firm, who often represented foreign clients. The specific relations man's name was Bruce Clews. The deal was for 35,000 pounds of gold. The total deal was in the 20 million dollar class at $35 per ounce.

Further grand jury inquiries learned an attorney had sat in on the Clews/Luckey proposals. His name is Prentiss More. Clews later on the witness stand stated the deal was brought to him by an alleged metal import dealer named Martin Hougan. Hougan also hung out a sign that he was a foreign mine expert with international clients and connections. Hougan had represented to the group that he had the power of attorney to represent a foreign client in sales and that he for the record had to see the gold before he would represent the foreign client. Hougan would not repeat these statements before the grand jury in 1954. He took the fifth amendment and disappeared overseas soon after the first grand jury session.

The sale of the gold was to be through an escrow system handled at the First National Bank in Ontario, California. Some bank officials were subpoenaed by the grand jury. B.J. Klepper, the escrow officer from the bank, handed his complete file over to the justice department.

At the time all witnesses offered full co-operation but Hougan departed the country. Angus D. McEachen the U.S. justice department attorney requested indictments be issued and warrants for several individuals not yet mentioned, and of course Leon Trabuco was named with no specific charges filed at that date. However with no warrants servable, the indictments and warrant have been renewed each year as more of a matter of civil service harassment as usual in this social system. A renewal of charges was filed as late as 1974, keeping the file active.

The Hougan investigative report statements included the gold was somewhere in the northwest rugged country of New Mexico. In San Juan County. The Trabuco charges included, Violation of international smuggling laws, Violation of 1934 Gold Act and open charges to be.

SUMMARY: It was alleged Trabuco in 1933-34 maintained two Mexican guards living close by the Shiprock area, on the Indian reservation, until he moved the cache to his private site.

Several past searches both illegal and Navajo permitted, have concentrated their searches around the actual Shiprock, and nearby mesas. We know of two intensive infrared surveys conducted by two different groups from California around the Shiprock area. Both were unsuccessful.

Ed Foster of Farmington has conducted extensive searches and located an array of evidence and has theories of his own. He states an old Ute woman near Aztec, New Mexico used to watch planes land at the field south of La Plata mines called Conger mesa strip. In 1933 she was a very young girl a strange plane landed several times that fall and the plane remained an hour or so. We interviewed others in the Conger area and people that have been there prior to 1933 and they doubt any clandestine activity took place there.

Mr. Foster has located an old shack and a mesa in the circumference of where he thinks the stash site is within an hour's rough drive from the alleged landing site. Mr. Foster also during the last few years has located a rock with the carved sign on it: 16 tons 1933. I believe someone is pulling jokes on treasure hunters with that sign. It made good copy and stories, even though a Mexican would not spell tons in that manner.

We have had our own flyovers and sites with landing site towers constructed from Hogan stones. A rough landing strip, but where could they move the gold by truck be from these?

It is within five miles as the peons stated to the others at the ranch in Chihuahua. "Trabuco was only gone a short time, with a ton at a time, to make five trips each day, after five tons was stored at the landing strip."

Hence Trabuco was only on the mesa three times to make the bullion moves and avoided the area as much as possible, while his guards acted as stockmen.

No map was made and the only statement credited to Trabuco to Hougan was the gold is within a half hour drive of a major New Mexico landmark.

The truck Trabuco used in New Mexico was said to have returned to Chihuahua in 1934 was missing the right front fender. We located a fender part on our mesa site and it appeared a driver had tried to negotiate a curve on a wet slick mud road. After hitting a rock, he had to tear the fender of to proceed.

Within the confines of what we call the sheep camp, we uncovered an old Dodge motor generator in which was a unique part used on that vintage. It is belt driven starter motor, which converts to a battery generator when the motor starts. Rather Trabuco had spare parts or not is unknown. We thought this may be an inoperative generator and he had to replace it during the operation. When we got this unit home, I put 12 volts to it and it worked. I then put a 110 volt motor, belted to it, and it generated power. So the replacement theory was out.

Oil was discovered and activity in the area since 1955 has erased a lot of trails infrared would normally afford. It is down now to covering a five mile circle with good equipment.

This is in addition and amendment to our private cannon process file and should be cross referenced to copies of as there is some Indian history within the old version.

Research & References
1. Foster unsolved mysteries program.
2. Los Angeles Federal District Court records.
3. Contacts at Salt Lake Muni. airport, in re: Elliot.
4. Research associate, Able Torrengo - Chihuahua, Mexico.
5. Young Licensed Cal. Investigators P.D. file.

Evidence: From three ground and flight trips to area 1992-1994

1. Shack located on mesa. Most probable airstrip south from shack. Where monuments line up.
2. Dodge motor generator.
3. Ripped fender located on trail north of shack.
4. Two destroyed Indian Hogans south of shack, on mesa. Rocks from Hogans located on west mesa edge, constructed into three towers in line from western air with airstrip.
5. Horse and pack animal corral located. Trail leading to certain cave districts.

A major lead will afford to us from a retired agriculture analyst living near the area. This lead will be followed up as travel budget
allows.

Additional related data attached.

Attachment:
1920 - 1933 - Most countries required miners and refiners to sell gold to government mints only. In the U.S. the miners were requested by some state laws to sell to government sources only. However the 1934 federal law states that all mines, sell to government mints only and in addition, the law requires all private citizens to turn in their gold and it became illegal for a citizen to use gold for trade purposes. Many U.S. mid and west coast miners smuggled their sales to foreign buyers who paid more than the government. This act could land both the buyer and seller in federal prison, however the profits were such that the sales went on
allowing the seller an income tax free gold sales.


Only some large mine ventures were monitored by the government, watching the sales. It became a known fact that federal mints during the final refining process, only credited the miners with the net fine gold turned in at $35.00 per ounce. Any rare metals of value, such as common platinum, the federal mint deducted from the gold weights and retained the rare metals for federal profits. For some years without the miners knowledge.

Several miners who are in districts where minute traces of platinum is apparent in gold, these miners preferred to smuggle the main products mined to foreign buyers for obvious reasons. Whatever the federal mints practiced, the controlled prices and the mistrust caused the federal mints to lose most of the small mined gold produc- tion. During the era from 1933 to 1970. It was not just the loss of federal revenue of having the gold in the depository for later inflation profits, but the loss of income tax collected. The era was a major contributor of mistrust in the U.S. government system.

Prior to the 1933 U.S. Gold Act, the general western world price was from $20 to $22 per troy ounce. However several eastern countries which had a free market or an uncontrolled income of smuggled import gold, the prices were controlled by supply and demand. During the era 1935 to 1942 several Asian countries paid near $50 per troy ounce. By the year 1955 the Asian and Indian markets paid $85 per troy ounce. It is very apparent why western miners would sell to foreign buyers at $40 to $50 per ounce, deriving more for their gold and avoid the tax reporting. The buyer if one could get the gold out of the U.S. to his foreign
sales destination, could often double their investment monies.

The U.S. enforcement of controlling gold sales was very weak and seemed to act on the advertisement of fear rather than actions. Enforcement within countries such as large producers such as Mexico was also weak. Small mines never heeded the laws which required all in country production to be sold to the government only, but larger well known mines could pay off mint officials and easily avoided the government laws. The Spanish colonists who came to Mexico in the year 1520, taught the Indians and half caste the Merdido system, {the bite}, taught the well, the system thrives within the Latin American countries today.

The time situation which effects the Four Corners Story, was when the larger mines such as Leon Trabuco's, were under some monitoring by the Mexican government and some gold had to be delivered to the federal mints at the Mexican prices of $20.67 per troy ounce.

Trabuco and others often hoarded large segments of their production for reasons that gold was always stable on the world market to purchase any item one may desire. As at present, countries paper monies are always subject to value changing, gold will always remain a buyers stable commodity even if hoarded gold does not accrue interest. It also does not need report to tax officials.

It is easy to visualize why Mexican gold hoarders would be interested in selling their gold at a closed market, such as the U.S. at $15 more per ounce than take the chance of getting it to Asia by boat and clandestine control of his valuable products. However violating two countries laws doing the smuggling was the ultimate downfall of the project.

Wow great post Steve! I have never seen that before, for sure. Thank you for sharing it! Would you mind if I copy that and save a copy for my own files? I am not hunting this treasure but have long had a fascination for it. If you would rather not, I will respect that.
Roy

Hmm guess I did not need to quote that but it was such a good post I was not satisfied with just clicking 'like'.
 

sdcfia

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Wow great post Steve! I have never seen that before, for sure. Thank you for sharing it! Would you mind if I copy that and save a copy for my own files? I am not hunting this treasure but have long had a fascination for it. If you would rather not, I will respect that.
Roy

Hmm guess I did not need to quote that but it was such a good post I was not satisfied with just clicking 'like'.

This info is free to anyone who wants it, as far as I know. The original author is not identified and apparently released the document to the public domain, where I found it from a third party. One weakness with the document is that there are no references to the information contained within it, save the 1933 Executive Order (6102) and the 1934 Gold Act, both of which are not described entirely accurately - but close enough, I guess.
 

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Hey Steve,

I can confirm a good bit of that. Two names were screwed up though: Rafael Artaga is really Rafael Arteaga and Profesor Morado is actually a Mexican Economist named Profesor Hilario Y Morada (or maybe Morado).

Bill Elliott is actually Red Mosher. No Stearman Airplanes, but Mosher flew a Ford Trimotor.

I believe the people I know were likely one of the two "California Groups" mentioned.

The mention of the Indian Reservation is neat, because one of my documents has a statement that to find the original hiding spot, they may have to access part of the Ute Reservation.

Mike
 

sdcfia

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Hey Steve,

I can confirm a good bit of that. Two names were screwed up though: Rafael Artaga is really Rafael Arteaga and Profesor Morado is actually a Mexican Economist named Profesor Hilario Y Morada (or maybe Morado).

Bill Elliott is actually Red Mosher. No Stearman Airplanes, but Mosher flew a Ford Trimotor.

I believe the people I know were likely one of the two "California Groups" mentioned.

The mention of the Indian Reservation is neat, because one of my documents has a statement that to find the original hiding spot, they may have to access part of the Ute Reservation.

Mike

Now that's interesting. There seems to be so much conflicting information with the story. Without the sealed Grand Jury transcript, the whole thing is intriguing hearsay. Of course, people lie under oath too, but I suspect the legal transcript contains information not available anywhere else.

I'm actually leaning toward beginning to accept parts of this story, although for me there are a number of security issues with the story as told. For one, it makes much more sense to truck the gold into the US, rather than fly it in. It would be much more secure and low-profile, with fewer people involved and not as many steps to take between Mexico and the cache site. I can understand the Trabuco gang's reasoning supporting their plan in the first place, but I also still have a huge problem with the timing - moving the bullion after EO 6102. Again, a security issue - gold possession being recently outlawed in the US. Why do so many high-risk things?

Your mention of jurors becoming interested in relocating to the Farmington/Aztec area would make sense if Aztec National Monument turned out to be the "major NM landmark" that Trabuco is credited with saying that his cache is near. Since I don't see Trabuco caching the gold on a reservation (I was too hasty ID-ing Shiprock in an earlier post), that only leaves a small strip of land just south of The Ute Mountain Reservation, and a lot of land north of Aztec - everything else is Navajo - that would not be on Native soil and close enough to the alleged airstrip.

Trabuco, from what little we actually know, seems clever. If this story is based on fact (I've now got one foot in the boat - but still standing on the dock), I wouldn't be surprised if his cache was in CO, closer to the LaPlata Mining District west of Durango, and close to a large number of producing gold mines that would be a good place to blend bullion into mine production. He owned mines in Mexico and likely had the proper connections. The story is that he was frustrated for many years not being able to cash out the gold, but do we know for sure that he wasn't methodically doing so from the start? This makes more sense to me - the dodging of the Feds being eyewash all along. By the way, there are unexplained rumors of hidden gold on Hesperus Mountain in the CO LaPlatas too. Coincidence? Maybe.

The reason I've always been sour on this tale is the number of really questionable decisions that Trabuco & co allegedly made. A lot of it didn't make sense to me. Of course, maybe things weren't as they have been reported to be. If Trabuco was clever enough to be in possession of 17 tons of gold, it seems possible he was also capable of pulling off a charade in NM, complete with empty planes landing on Conger Mesa, then proceeding with business in CO.
 

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I know my dad told me ,when he was a kid in the 30's,it was a really big deal to see or hear a airplane. He said people would even pull off the road and get out of there cars to get a better look at it,and this was in a very populated state. I could just imagine the attention that plane would attract in NM at that time. talk about sending up a red flair.
 

sdcfia

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I know my dad told me ,when he was a kid in the 30's,it was a really big deal to see or hear a airplane. He said people would even pull off the road and get out of there cars to get a better look at it,and this was in a very populated state. I could just imagine the attention that plane would attract in NM at that time. talk about sending up a red flair.

Yeah, I know Dog - especially in New Mexico. The airplane transport is one of the weakest parts of the original story, IMO. The Farmington-to-Durango highway passes right at the base of Conger Mesa. I imagine that if an airplane landed up there - where there was no airport - folks are wondering, "What the heck is that plane doing landing on the mesa!?" And it allegedly happened a dozen times at least. Duh. If the plane thing happened at all, it seems to me that it would be a very effective red herring.
 

Oroblanco

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Yeah, I know Dog - especially in New Mexico. The airplane transport is one of the weakest parts of the original story, IMO. The Farmington-to-Durango highway passes right at the base of Conger Mesa. I imagine that if an airplane landed up there - where there was no airport - folks are wondering, "What the heck is that plane doing landing on the mesa!?" And it allegedly happened a dozen times at least. Duh. If the plane thing happened at all, it seems to me that it would be a very effective red herring.

Wouldn't that depend on people actually seeing and hearing the plane? How many people do you propose were in that area at that time?
 

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It would surely be the gossip of the local area for awhile, i would even think the local sheriff would have to take a ride out there to see what was going on. And it surely would be the talk at the local barber shop for awhile. Those barbers and the locale postman are always in the know of the daily happenings. You might even still be able to spot the landing strip on goggle earth to this day if there was that many landings. Ask the local barber or the postman,they always know the latest scuttle butt. Try and find who they where at the time, then track down there closes kin that are still alive, and you will get some great info. i bet, if your going after that story.:dontknow:

 

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Wouldn't that depend on people actually seeing and hearing the plane? How many people do you propose were in that area at that time?
That makes sense, and with only phone more than likely being in town, if at all. The news more than likely just stayed local,except for the letters wrote to family to see how they are doing,and about the airplane they got to see in real life for the first time.
 

sdcfia

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Wouldn't that depend on people actually seeing and hearing the plane? How many people do you propose were in that area at that time?

Of course.

The old census data for the "local trade area" (significant daily back and forth traffic) shows about 1,500 people in Farmington, Aztec 1,000, Fruitland 1,000, Durango 6,000, Shiprock 500. So, I guess about 10,000 people lived within 50 miles of Conger Mesa, which is eight miles or so from Farmington. Could a dozen or more flights slip onto the mesa undetected? Possibly. What's the chance that some may have been noticed? Probably fairly good.
 

gollum

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Believe what y'all want or don't want to.

The way the Feds found out about most of this was through finding the pilot/s. I assume that was why Norman Scott of "Expeditions Unlimited" interviewed the pilot/s (once they tracked down the correct name/s). Maybe if you want so badly to believe the "fly-in" part is BS, contact Mr. Scott and ask him. Originally, the whole thing came out of the dark when BG Klepper (President of First Natl Bank of Ontario, Ca) approached the Director of the US Mint in San Francisco with the offer from Trabuco in about 1950-1951. Between the witnesses (Martin A Hougen and another that testified to have actually seen and held bars from the cache) and documentation presented, the judge found reason to call in the Secret Service and FBI to do a thorough investigation, and to convene a full Grand Jury Investigation and Trial.

Mike
 

Beaudog

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I've done some reading about this trove but the pilot's name I've seen is "Red" Moiser.
 

sdcfia

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I was tempted to spend more time on the 17-Ton story, but I'm realizing that I've already passed the point of diminishing returns on time spent. For those who look beyond the usual dogmatic tellings, I suggest you pay attention to the posts earlier in this thread submitted by "Peerless67". Posts #198, 202, 212, Sept, 2008, are a good place to start, but all his posts deserve a look.
 

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I was tempted to spend more time on the 17-Ton story, but I'm realizing that I've already passed the point of diminishing returns on time spent. For those who look beyond the usual dogmatic tellings, I suggest you pay attention to the posts earlier in this thread submitted by "Peerless67". Posts #198, 202, 212, Sept, 2008, are a good place to start, but all his posts deserve a look.
That was a nice read sdcfia. yea its a waste of time to look in NM for that. Thanks
 

sdcfia

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Oh ... I forgot. Here's one last thing. Eric Clapton has said that during Cream's short run (which blazed a new path in music that hundreds of bands have tried to follow), their goal was to "surprise and confuse". In that spirit ... here: I dug up an old text file that I believe originated from some emails back in the 1990s. Let's add some confusion to the Four Corners. Following that is some info I got from a pal in Utah.

" ... Hi Steve. You asked about the BIG LUE. Many people have said many things about the BIG LUE, and some even claim to have gotten Treasure from it. Some people think it is a very old document. It isn't! To me the BIG LUE isn't any older than the mid 1920's at it's oldest age, because it utilizes the American one dollar bill as a code regulator. You can find the document of the BIG LUE in Treasure Hunters Manuel #7 on page 111 by Karl Von Mueller. Many people say they have solved the LUE. It is a key to a huge fortune, this part is true of the LUE.
My version of the LUE came about in 1934 when tons of Gold was brought into America allegedly from mexico to gain a profit when the U.S. dollar was devalued in 1935. This alleged incident is called the Mexican gold contraband and this case was studied by the Federal Grand Jury. They dropped this case because they had no evidence to prosecute. How right they were, because Germany was responsible for the Gold Bullion flown into the U.S. from canada.

The ruse of Shiprock was designed to engulf the FBI and all other seekers. They still go there each year looking for Mexican Ghost bars. The German gold contraband brought in from Canada was successfully hidden on the land of a loyal German. The American Gold Act prevented the gold from being sold here and quite frankly the gold would have been removed from this country if it hadn't been for the untimely death of the loyal German that knew where the bullion was buried. It was he that designed the LUE as a pun to the FBI say: "Yankee, if we can't spend our gold in your country, then you find it!" Thus the birth of the LUE way bill.

It was Germanys thought that the U.S. would pay for Hiller world war 2. It didn't and the Germans had to abandon the bullion after searching for it unsucessfully. If the gold had been sold it would have ruined the American economy. We may have not been able to defend our selves nor participate against Germany.

The LUE doesn't say how much, but I would assume 100 to 200 tons if Germany really wanted to criple the U.S. economy. The LUE was designed to be utilized with the American one dollar bill. The FBI didn't know where to look for evidence because they were sitting on it! I love it! Notice the wavy line going through the column. This means turn me! Notice the two lines going through the column. This means turn me! Yes, the LUE is a three dimentional pun wheel. You may move all of the symbols anywhere you wish them to be to extract information. Had the U.S. purchased the German Gold, we probably wouldn't have been able to defind ourselves or participate against Germany. The Germans could have won the war which would have changed history. The LUE was an important U.S. case and the Germans were foiled just by untimely circumstances oblivious to us all. Thanks for asking Steve. ..."

Crazy, huh? Then, this report of an old camp near an old airstrip found years ago near Page, AZ:

" ... Please tell me more!

Funny you should mention the German connection, I've never heard this, and I've never thought much of the following till now.

A very good friend of mine, (Near the four corners area)......When he was in his younger years, He and his brothers found a cave, (this would be in the early 70's) that appeared to have been carved/blasted out of sandstone and in this cave was allot of old German Army Paraphernalia, such as a generator, water pump, fuel containers water containers.....Etc......He said it appeared that some one had been staying there for quite some time....but all the things left were getting quite old, and seemed to be from the 30's......as per dates on some items. One would have to wonder just what the yell was a German camp doing way out there and how did it get there? Why was it located there?
They never knew why this camp had been set up in such a remote location. In the 30's the nearest town would have been a hundred miles away, and it wasn't much of a town then. Now there is a very well known town within 20-30 miles of this place. And although I would not consider it "The four corners area"....others might.

Where can I get more info on this German connection story??....LUE map? LUE Treasure? ... "

Well, there you have it. Maybe this is the same story, maybe it's two different stories. Regardless, if you get tired of looking at the Four Corners Power Plant in NM, just move your camp over to Lake Powell in AZ for a change of scenery.
 

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releventchair

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Yeah, I know Dog - especially in New Mexico. The airplane transport is one of the weakest parts of the original story, IMO. The Farmington-to-Durango highway passes right at the base of Conger Mesa. I imagine that if an airplane landed up there - where there was no airport - folks are wondering, "What the heck is that plane doing landing on the mesa!?" And it allegedly happened a dozen times at least. Duh. If the plane thing happened at all, it seems to me that it would be a very effective red herring.

Just haul out a wild mustang now and then under guise of studies to get locals accustomed to crazy goins ons.
 

gollum

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I never spent any time on The Lue, so I can't speak intelligently about it.

Funny thing is, to you, the weakest part is the pilots, but that is the part most proven (like I said, speak to Norman Scott).

If the owner of the ranch where the gold was first stored was a loyal German, it must have been by marriage. The name of the land owner is not German. It is English in nature.

Mike
 

sdcfia

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I never spent any time on The Lue, so I can't speak intelligently about it.

Funny thing is, to you, the weakest part is the pilots, but that is the part most proven (like I said, speak to Norman Scott).

If the owner of the ranch where the gold was first stored was a loyal German, it must have been by marriage. The name of the land owner is not German. It is English in nature.

Mike

This German guy was presumably over near Page somewhere, I guess. Regarding the LUE - don't feel bad, nobody can speak intelligently about it.
 

gollum

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Three stories I haven't touched:

1. LUE

2. Beale Ciphers

3. Nazi POW Camp Loot in Arizona. (don't know why, just never really got into it)

Mike
 

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