The Brownie Holmes Manuscript

[Matthew Roberts]

This thread about the Brownie Holmes Manuscript is in answer to a question cactusjumper asked on a separate thread.

The Holmes manuscript has been the focus of many spirited discussions, disagreements and misconceptions over the years since it first surfaced in the early 1960’s. Allegedly written by George “Brownie” Holmes, Holmes denied being the actual author but did admit that he furnished a lot of the information that the manuscript contained.

The Holmes manuscript is 41 typed pages, a Forward, 12 chapters, and a 9 page Dutchman story addition entitled, The True Story Of The Lost Dutchman Of The Superstitions As Told To Me By My Father Dick Holmes, By Jacob Wolz On His Deathbed.
It is clear to anyone reading the manuscript that the 9 page Dutchman story addition was written in a much different style than the rest of the manuscript which deals mostly with Brownie’s life and stories of his experience with his father and other lost mine hunters. This 9 page Dutchman story addition is oddly sandwiched in between chapters 2 and 3 almost as if it were inserted after the rest of the manuscript had been finished.

Brownie was not a writer, author or typist so in 1944 he employed someone who was to help him put together a story of his life and his account of the Lost Dutchman Mine as told to his father by Jacob “Wolz”. That man was Charles Kenison a former Phoenix newspaper man and author of several articles.

Between Brownie and Kenison no fewer than 4 separate versions of the manuscript were compiled. Brownie liked none of them and their disagreements eventually ended the project.

According to John Higham, in the fall of 1945 Charles Kenison delivered to John Lindley Higham a copy of one of the versions of the Holmes manuscript. Higham was a local author also known as Charles Fredrick Higham who had in 1946 written his own Lost Dutchman Mine book entitled, The True Story Of Jacob Waltzer And His Famous Hidden Gold Mine, The Lost Dutchman.
There was a discrepancy between Kenison and Higham of when exactly Higham received the manuscript. Higham says it was 1948, Kennison said it was 1944 the year it was written. This is important because if Kenison is correct it seems Higham wrote his 1946 book based largely on the Holmes manuscript.

Other than Kenison, Brownie and John L. Higham, no one else knew anything of this Holmes manuscript until November 1, 1962 when John L. Higham donated it to the Arizona State Department of Library and Archives. It was soon after “discovered” by the general public and caused quite a sensation. Brownie Holmes was set upon and hounded by an army of lost mine seekers and questioned relentlessly concerning the “Wolz story and deathbed confession.” Finally in desperation Brownie withdrew and denied being the author of the work.

I have always wondered why Higham waited 14-16 years (depending on whose story you believe) to donate the manuscript to the Arizona Library and Archives and make it public? Higham and Kenison knew each other but were not particularly close or considered good friends. Hardly anyone was considered a friend of Highams, he had an extremely abrasive personality. Higham and Brownie Holmes were not friends by any stretch of the imagination. In fact Higham went out of his way to disparage Brownie and Dick Holmes every chance he got.

When Higham donated the manuscript to the Archives he inserted into the manuscript his own personal view of the work which was a scathing review. The amusing thing about Higham’s case against the Holmes manuscript was in trying to disprove Brownie’s “facts” he used “facts” of his own that were so outrageously ridiculous and false it made Brownie’s manuscript look positively scholarly.
Another thing I have always wondered about was the actual manuscript that is in the Archives. I have read that very work and there is something strange about it.

Both Higham and Kenison stated it was Kenison who gave Higham the manuscript. The manuscript Kenison gave Higham is typed with an old style typewriter. Higham added two separate pages of his own to the donation, both pages were typed overviews and his assessment of the manuscripts unworthiness. What I find strange is that all the donated work, Kenison’s and the pages Higham added were all typed on the same typewriter. At least two of the typewriter keys had defects and the same defects are on both Kennison’s copy and Higham’s additions.

Unless Higham used Kenison’s typewriter I don’t understand how this could have occurred. This raises a lot of interesting questions. Did Higham retype what Kenison gave him? That would seem unlikely because Brownies original signature is on the manuscript. And if Higham did retype it, did he type it faithfully or did he change and add his own version to things? After all, there was no love lost between Higham and Holmes. Could this be why Brownie denied the authorship of the manuscript until he died?
It’s interesting to speculate on the many paths this story could have gone down. Fortunately we don’t have to rely on the Holmes — Kenison manuscript for the story of Wolz-Walzer-Waltz and his deathbed confession. Brownie Holmes was taped in interviews by four separate people (David Russell, Monte Edwards, Tom Kollenborn and Greg Davis) between 1975 and 1979 giving specific details about the things the Dutchman told his father on his deathbed.

In addition, Clay Worst, a longtime friend and partner of Brownie Holmes was given a detailed firsthand account by Brownie. Clay uses Brownie’s account to make a “Dutchman” presentation each year to a crowd at the Superstition Mountain Museum in Apache Junction. Clay will give that presentation again on January 7, 2016 for anyone who wants to hear the story the way it was passed down from Jacob Waltz to Dick Holmes to Brownie and finally to Clay.

Personally I believe the Holmes account of Waltz’s deathbed confession. Not every word, word for word but the basic premise of it. I believe it as well as a story can survive given time and being passed down through three or four persons.
I believe the account also because of something Clay Worst told me once. I was staying with Clay at his house for a few days and one evening after dinner we were sitting outside on Clay’s back porch talking and watching the sunset reflecting off Superstition Mountain. Clay told me about Easter Sunday 1980 when Brownie had come out to have Easter dinner with Clay and his wife Muriel. Brownie Holmes was 87 years old and in failing health. After the dinner Clay and Brownie had gone out back on the porch and Brownie began to reminisce about the old days. Pausing as he gazed off at the mountain Brownie turned to Clay in all seriousness and spoke these words, …. “Clay, I don’t know if the Dutchman lied to my father or not, but I know my father never lied to me, and I know I never lied to you.”

Five days later, on Friday April 11, 1980, his 88th birthday, George Brownie Holmes passed into eternity.

 

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[roadrunner]

Thanks for posting that Matthew.

 

[Old]

The stories as told are interesting, no doubt. It’s the stuff of campfires and wide eyed listeners caught up in a legend. The art of storytelling is a form of entertainment. I enjoy a well told tale and the talent it takes by the teller to make it come alive. Many have made telling those tales their life’s profession or, at least, their obsession. Especially as it concerns Jacob Waltz and all things Lost Dutchman.

But it’s a different thing when one begins to examine the elements of those stories to glean portions that can or can not be used to substantiate historical fact.

The death bed confession of Jacob Waltz and what was or was not related to Dick Holmes falls apart rapidly in the cold, hard light of further analysis.

Jacob Waltz was an elderly man, a sick, dying elderly man. He had some form of pulmonary disease and probably other conditions associated with an advanced age. He had been bed ridden and in the care of Julia Thomas for some time. His condition had steadily declined.

Now advance to the night of his demise. We are told it was in the wee dark hours of the morning when his condition took its final turn for the worse. Julia was so alarmed by this turn as to venture out into the darkness to fetch the doctor. Not wait for the morning light but to urgently seek help immediately.

What do you think happened here? I’d suspect Waltz was exhibiting death rattles. Julia by this time in her care of Jacob was quite used to his normal coughs and moments of loss of breath. Something quite unusual occurred to have awakened her and caused her to venture out into the night in search of help.

Next up we are lead to believe Holmes and Roberts were loitering about in the streets in the vicinity of Julia’s home. They were apparently without plan or purpose in being at that opportune place in time. Julia in her haste to fetch the doctor stopped and asked Holmes to go into her home and stand by Waltz until her return.

If any of that tale is true, I’d venture to say Waltz was in no condition to verbally relate a multi chapter account of his life and adventures to anyone. Makes for great TV entertainment but is greatly lacking in credibility.

We are told Holmes listened to Waltz sorted history and even pressed him for greater details of the mine. Waltz advises Holmes to take the gold stash hidden under his bed and continue efforts to exploit the mine. Upon Waltz’ ultimate expiration Holmes packs away the stash and exits the premises. Conveniently, before Julia’s return.

Come on folks. You buying this saga? It just doesn’t pass the smell test.

Holmes exploited an opportunity. Defrauded the rightful next in line, used it for his own benefit, and created a cover story.

 

[sdcfia]

"Statement A: Statement B is true. Statement B: Statement A is false."
Mark Twain

 

[markmar]

Old

What you can't buy from Waltz's death bed confession ? All the confession or some parts ?

I agree how was very hard or impossible for Waltz to make that long confession , and personally i believe how Waltz told only the route to the mine , which IMO is accurate . Also , I believe how the Holmes map which shows the LDM location is accurate too .
The only thing that I can't understand is why Waltz told to Holmes a different route than to Julia and Rhiney . Maybe because Waltz expected from Holmes to help Julia and Rhiney if they were not able to find the mine from his description . And maybe the stash under the bed was the price for that help which never came .

IMO the other part of the confession was a " make up " which was used to make a bad profile for Waltz and to " close " some open files of unsolved murders .

 

[Old]

Marcus,

None of it. The only part that I believe is Holmes took the candlebox and left.

As to what may be accurate so far as maps, trails, etc. is that Holmes (and well as everyone else in the area and their dog) had a theory of where the mine(s) was/were located. Thus the assortment of maps, stories and the mixing of clues. The only part that I believe is accurate is that over time Holmes came to know where the mine was NOT located.

Holmes spent the rest of his life looking for it and found?? Nothing.

 

[markmar]

Lynda

Holmes and the others had a general description of the mine site . And don't forget how Waltz had covered the mine very well in that manner that you would take a picnic over the site and to not understand how there is a mine . Only someone who know to " read " the Waltz's map and other which are in relation with that place , could recognize where is the mine location .
They had a general description of a rough region about 2x2 miles .

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Lynda

Holmes and the others had a general description of the mine site . And don't forget how Waltz had covered the mine very well in that manner that you would take a picnic over the site and to not understand how there is a mine . Only someone who know to " read " the Waltz's map and other which are in relation with that place , could recognize where is the mine location .
They had a general description of a rough region about 2x2 miles .

markmar,

Here are the directions Waltz gave to Dick Holmes and Gideon Roberts, word for word, no additions, no deletions:

"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks. Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging."

Anything else you may have heard came from someone else. This is Holmes account of what Waltz told him, nothing more, nothing less. Holmes and Roberts kept one part of Waltz's direction secret, this is an important part of the location of the mine.

Personally I see only one error that could have been made by Waltz giving the directions to his hidden camp. Clay has noticed this also. Where Waltz says ...... "go to the mouth of the canyon and then back."

This is confusing because Waltz already has Holmes and Roberts on the highest point of the ridge. It seems he should have said , go to the head of the canyon. That would make more sense because the mouth would indicate the canyon with his rock house was even higher than the point of the ridge you are standing on. I think Waltz understandably mixed head and mouth of the canyon. That is an easy thing for people to do, say one when they mean the other, especially if Waltz was beginning to fail.

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

This thread about the Brownie Holmes Manuscript is in answer to a question cactusjumper asked on a separate thread.

The Holmes manuscript has been the focus of many spirited discussions, disagreements and misconceptions over the years since it first surfaced in the early 1960’s. Allegedly written by George “Brownie” Holmes, Holmes denied being the actual author but did admit that he furnished a lot of the information that the manuscript contained.

The Holmes manuscript is 41 typed pages, a Forward, 12 chapters, and a 9 page Dutchman story addition entitled, The True Story Of The Lost Dutchman Of The Superstitions As Told To Me By My Father Dick Holmes, By Jacob Wolz On His Deathbed.
It is clear to anyone reading the manuscript that the 9 page Dutchman story addition was written in a much different style than the rest of the manuscript which deals mostly with Brownie’s life and stories of his experience with his father and other lost mine hunters. This 9 page Dutchman story addition is oddly sandwiched in between chapters 2 and 3 almost as if it were inserted after the rest of the manuscript had been finished.

Brownie was not a writer, author or typist so in 1944 he employed someone who was to help him put together a story of his life and his account of the Lost Dutchman Mine as told to his father by Jacob “Wolz”. That man was Charles Kennison a former Phoenix newspaper man and author of several articles.

Between Brownie and Kennison no fewer than 4 separate versions of the manuscript were compiled. Brownie liked none of them and their disagreements eventually ended the project.

According to John Higham, in the fall of 1948 Charles Kennison delivered to John Lindley Higham a copy of one of the versions of the Holmes manuscript. Higham was a local author also known as Charles Fredrick Higham who had in 1946 written his own Lost Dutchman Mine book entitled, The True Story Of Jacob Waltzer And His Famous Hidden Gold Mine, The Lost Dutchman.
There was a discrepancy between Kennison and Higham of when exactly Higham received the manuscript. Higham says it was 1948, Kennison said it was 1944 the year it was written. This is important because if Kennison is correct it seems Higham wrote his 1946 book based largely on the Holmes manuscript.

Other than Kennison, Brownie and John L. Higham, no one else knew anything of this Holmes manuscript until November 1, 1962 when John L. Higham donated it to the Arizona State Department of Library and Archives. It was soon after “discovered” by the general public and caused quite a sensation. Brownie Holmes was set upon and hounded by an army of lost mine seekers and questioned relentlessly concerning the “Wolz story and deathbed confession.” Finally in desperation Brownie withdrew and denied being the author of the work.

I have always wondered why Higham waited 14-16 years (depending on whose story you believe) to donate the manuscript to the Arizona Library and Archives and make it public? Higham and Kennison knew each other but were not particularly close or considered good friends. Hardly anyone was considered a friend of Highams, he had an extremely abrasive personality. Higham and Brownie Holmes were not friends by any stretch of the imagination. In fact Higham went out of his way to disparage Brownie and Dick Holmes every chance he got.

When Higham donated the manuscript to the Archives he inserted into the manuscript his own personal view of the work which was a scathing review. The amusing thing about Higham’s case against the Holmes manuscript was in trying to disprove Brownie’s “facts” he used “facts” of his own that were so outrageously ridiculous and false it made Brownie’s manuscript look positively scholarly.
Another thing I have always wondered about was the actual manuscript that is in the Archives. I have read that very work and there is something strange about it.

Both Higham and Kennison stated it was Kennison who gave Higham the manuscript. The manuscript Kennison gave Higham is typed with an old style typewriter. Higham added two separate pages of his own to the donation, both pages were typed overviews and his assessment of the manuscripts unworthiness. What I find strange is that all the donated work, Kennison’s and the pages Higham added were all typed on the same typewriter. At least two of the typewriter keys had defects and the same defects are on both Kennison’s copy and Higham’s additions.

Unless Higham used Kennison’s typewriter I don’t understand how this could have occurred. This raises a lot of interesting questions. Did Higham retype what Kennison gave him? That would seem unlikely because Brownies original signature is on the manuscript. And if Higham did retype it, did he type it faithfully or did he change and add his own version to things? After all, there was no love lost between Higham and Holmes. Could this be why Brownie denied the authorship of the manuscript until he died?
It’s interesting to speculate on the many paths this story could have gone down. Fortunately we don’t have to rely on the Holmes — Kennison manuscript for the story of Wolz-Walzer-Waltz and his deathbed confession. Brownie Holmes was taped in interviews by four separate people (David Russell, Monte Edwards, Tom Kollenborn and Greg Davis) between 1975 and 1979 giving specific details about the things the Dutchman told his father on his deathbed.

In addition, Clay Worst, a longtime friend and partner of Brownie Holmes was given a detailed firsthand account by Brownie. Clay uses Brownie’s account to make a “Dutchman” presentation each year to a crowd at the Superstition Mountain Museum in Apache Junction. Clay will give that presentation again on January 7, 2016 for anyone who wants to hear the story the way it was passed down from Jacob Waltz to Dick Holmes to Brownie and finally to Clay.

Personally I believe the Holmes account of Waltz’s deathbed confession. Not every word, word for word but the basic premise of it. I believe it as well as a story can survive given time and being passed down through three or four persons.
I believe the account also because of something Clay Worst told me once. I was staying with Clay at his house for a few days and one evening after dinner we were sitting outside on Clay’s back porch talking and watching the sunset reflecting off Superstition Mountain. Clay told me about Easter Sunday 1980 when Brownie had come out to have Easter dinner with Clay and his wife Muriel. Brownie Holmes was 87 years old and in failing health. After the dinner Clay and Brownie had gone out back on the porch and Brownie began to reminisce about the old days. Pausing as he gazed off at the mountain Brownie turned to Clay in all seriousness and spoke these words, …. “Clay, I don’t know if the Dutchman lied to my father or not, but I know my father never lied to me, and I know I never lied to you.”

Five days later, on Friday April 11, 1980, his 88th birthday, George Brownie Holmes passed into eternity.

markmar,

Here are the directions Waltz gave to Dick Holmes and Gideon Roberts, word for word, no additions, no deletions:

"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks. Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging."

Anything else you may have heard came from someone else. This is Holmes account of what Waltz told him, nothing more, nothing less. Holmes and Roberts kept one part of Waltz's direction secret, this is an important part of the location of the mine.

Personally I see only one error that could have been made by Waltz giving the directions to his hidden camp. Clay has noticed this also. Where Waltz says ...... "go to the mouth of the canyon and then back."

This is confusing because Waltz already has Holmes and Roberts on the highest point of the ridge. It seems he should have said , go to the head of the canyon. That would make more sense because the mouth would indicate the canyon with his rock house was even higher than the point of the ridge you are standing on. I think Waltz understandably mixed head and mouth of the canyon. That is an easy thing for people to do, say one when they mean the other, especially if Waltz was beginning to fail.

Matthew

Matthew,

Your opinion of the history of this thing is probably better than most folks. Many people, including me, believe that Dick Holmes stole the gold from under Waltz's deathbed. That is also what Jim Bark thought, and what I was told by a number of the old timers. For me, that ended any belief I could ever have in anything that Dick Holmes said. As I have written many times, I also believe that he lied to Brownie. What was he going to say to his son.......I stole a dead man's gold, which by the way IMHO, should have gone to the woman who cared for Waltz in his last days.

The manuscript has it's own problems, which I think just goes along with the rest of the Holmes saga.......as it applies to Jacob Waltz. I'm sure you have justifiable reasons for your comments. They just don't carry the same weight as mine do for me. There was a time when you might have been able to change my mind.

That being said I could, of course, be wrong. Just my opinion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

markmar,

Here are the directions Waltz gave to Dick Holmes and Gideon Roberts, word for word, no additions, no deletions:

"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks. Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging."

Anything else you may have heard came from someone else. This is Holmes account of what Waltz told him, nothing more, nothing less. Holmes and Roberts kept one part of Waltz's direction secret, this is an important part of the location of the mine.

Personally I see only one error that could have been made by Waltz giving the directions to his hidden camp. Clay has noticed this also. Where Waltz says ...... "go to the mouth of the canyon and then back."

This is confusing because Waltz already has Holmes and Roberts on the highest point of the ridge. It seems he should have said , go to the head of the canyon. That would make more sense because the mouth would indicate the canyon with his rock house was even higher than the point of the ridge you are standing on. I think Waltz understandably mixed head and mouth of the canyon. That is an easy thing for people to do, say one when they mean the other, especially if Waltz was beginning to fail.

Matthew

Matthew,

No additions and no deletions? The only people who were in that room when Waltz died, are all dead now, assuming anyone was there at all. The Holmes account does not bear any resemblance to the Jim Bark, Sims Ely stories.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Matthew,

Your opinion of the history of this thing is probably better than most folks. Many people, including me, believe that Dick Holmes stole the gold from under Waltz's deathbed. That is also what Jim Bark thought, and what I was told by a number of the old timers. For me, that ended any belief I could ever have in anything that Dick Holmes said. As I have written many times, I also believe that he lied to Brownie. What was he going to say to his son.......I stole a dead man's gold, which by the way IMHO, should have gone to the woman who cared for Waltz in his last days.

The manuscript has it's own problems, which I think just goes along with the rest of the Holmes saga.......as it applies to Jacob Waltz. I'm sure you have justifiable reasons for your comments. They just don't carry the same weight as mine do for me. There was a time when you might have been able to change my mind.

That being said I could, of course, be wrong. Just my opinion.

Take care,

Joe

Well stated. Even if Dick Holmes was telling the truth, and Waltz had given him the gold in the candle box, it looks bad and perhaps could have gotten a witness (Roberts) to corroborate his story if it were true.

Then there is the Holmes manuscript - as posted in another thread - there are provably false points in it, like Waltz not being a citizen when we know he was a citizen. That should raise the red flags for anyone reading it. Also, actions speak louder than words. Underline that statement. Holmes himself did NOT follow those directions when Waltz was dead, in fact he went to a very different place on the "wrong" side of the Salt river for his very first trip after the mine. It also happens to be a place he supposedly trailed Waltz to while he was alive, namely Hidden Water. IF those directions are correct, why then didn't Dick Holmes himself follow them when he knew Waltz was dead?

I have no doubt that Holmes, as with most Dutch hunters, kept some information entirely secret. What ever it was, it is unlikely we will ever know it. The tale of the LDM as is popularly known is IMHO a blend of lost mine tales that were in circulation in the late 1880s, including the Peralta/Ludy story, the two soldiers, Doc Thorne and several others. That is just my own opinion of course, that so many treasure writers have been mixing together these stories for over a century - but it is not groundless either.

Of course everyone is free and welcome to their own opinions and beliefs about this. Perhaps the Holmes directions are correct, but we have been misinterpreting them? As for instance in that statement:
<snip>

take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man

What exactly is meant by "where the trail turns south"? The trail actually has quite a few turns and could be said to turn "south" at quite a few points. There is no explanation about the distance to that point where you should see a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. Perhaps it is considerably FARTHER up that old road than people have been interpreting?

Please do continue, just wanted to add a bit and am in agreement with Cactusjumper on his statements entirely. It does not make sense that Waltz in his dying breaths, would have given his last store of gold and directions to his mine, to a man that he had caught trailing to his mine and threatened to kill him if he caught Holmes doing it again. And that is from Holmes own manuscript.

Oroblanco

 

[Not Peralta]

Nothing captures a mans heart and mind like a loyal woman and a hidden fortune.
So if you think when the time came the Dutchman give his greatest secret to someone other than Julia,do you really deserve to know the truth,or do you want to keep arguing amongst each other for another hundred and so years. The trail to the mine has already been given, the proof has already been shown,and shared with each and everyone of you. Whats really amazing,but doesn't surprise me ,Is It took a person with a lot of determination from another country who has never been in the Supe's to sit at home with his computer and work this puzzle out through research and hard work. MY HATS OFF TO YOU Marius,I wanted to wait awhile to see if people would actually care enough to pay attention to what you were saying, I did but I already knew the truth,thats why my hats off to you,and that's why I know what you were saying was true. your friend .NP

 

[markmar]

Matthew

When Waltz said " go to the mouth of the canyon and back " was correct , because the top of that low ridge is not close to the canyon's head . Is just a point across the canyon from his mine . Is the point which he described in the German clues as " From my camp on the saddle you can see to the south a ridge with a hole ( arch ) in it " and |" My mine is to the north ( of that hole ) but you can't find it without me " .
So the hidden camp is close to the canyon floor and between the top op the low ridge and the other top with the mine . The hidden camp is what he drew in his map ( like a turtle ) and wrote beside ORO . So , the hidden camp is one place of his cache
In the published directions to the mine from Holmes manuscript are only the directions to the top of that low ridge ( lookout ) and to the hidden camp ( cache ) . No mention of clues to the mine . So, only if Holmes had additional info ( IMO had not ) or had to collaborate with Julia's secret info ( who knew the German clues ) , would been able to find the mine .
Exist a map which is written in a coded language and shows the lookout ( a man's sketch) across the mine site with the canyon between . the dots in this map begin from the canyon's mouth .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Minor point Ladies / Gentlemen, don't become 'fixated' on 'mouth or head' of a canyon, both are freely used with same thought.

Keep it up Marius my friend

 

[markmar]

Don Jose

I believed the head is at the highest point of a canyon and the mouth at the lower point . Like the rivers .

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning gentlemen: 1. My uncle, Art Weber was a member of the Dons Club of Arizona. I was visiting with him in Phoenix sometime in 1956 for he was going to take me on a camping trip. I was 10 at the time. The Don's were going to have one of their rare joint meeting's at the time. That is to say, Dons and their wives. Art and his wife, my Aunt Helen wanted to attend that meeting however I was to young to be left alone so they got permission to take me along. They has several speakers at that meeting who were friends of the Dons. One was an elderly 80 year old Phoenix doctor who was a friend of a doctor who was a Don. He spoke of the old days of using a horse and buggy and then a motel T. He spoke of caring for the sick and dying. I vividly recall of his telling about sitting by the side of dying patients who managing to rally at the end to reminisce their life or confess something they had done wrong in the past. After exerting that last amount of energy, they passed away. He said that this was not to uncommon by the old timers in the early year of his profession. Sorry, but I do not remember his name but one might surmise that his statements can be considered historic fact. Thus, the passing verbal account's of Waltz can very well be true! Granted it is hard to say just how long Waltz made his last statements since the story has been compromised by Kennison embellishing Brownie's account of it. 2. It was a common practice in the early days for the pioneers to rise before the sun. October 25, 1891, about 6 A.M. would be about first light. That was about the time the sun started to rise at the Rendezvous this year. As far as Holmes and Roberts loitering around, I would say they were more likely on their way somewhere to do errand's and just happened to run into Julia as she was going to get the doctor. Holmes new Julia for he lives about a block from her place. 3. With Waltz having a nephew that nobody seems to be able to find, ask yourself just how many people were around in the U.S. at that time that NEVER left any account or records of there having ever existed, not to mention people living in the wild west. I have two nephew and 2 nieces but with different last names. If you do not know the genealogical connection you would have a hard time trying to connect them to the Davis Family. Just as with the nephew of Waltz, if he was from a sister, then unless you know his last name, you would have a very hard task in trying to make the connection and that get even harder with fewer documents surviving from that time period. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[markmar]

Waltz was a smart and educated man . He helped his friends when they needed money and this shows how was not a greedy/stingy man but shows a good character .
IMO , Waltz never would kill his nephew for any reason .

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning Marius: I am not questioning you comment as to whether Waltz killed his nephew or not, but just how many people do we hear about in today's news that are well educated, smart, well off, and a staple in the community who then turning around and kill someone in their family or someone else during an argument or other problems? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[cactusjumper]

Good morning gentlemen: 1. My uncle, Art Weber was a member of the Dons Club of Arizona. I was visiting with him in Phoenix sometime in 1956 for he was going to take me on a camping trip. I was 10 at the time. The Don's were going to have one of their rare joint meeting's at the time. That is to say, Dons and their wives. Art and his wife, my Aunt Helen wanted to attend that meeting however I was to young to be left alone so they got permission to take me along. They has several speakers at that meeting who were friends of the Dons. One was an elderly 80 year old Phoenix doctor who was a friend of a doctor who was a Don. He spoke of the old days of using a horse and buggy and then a motel T. He spoke of caring for the sick and dying. I vividly recall of his telling about sitting by the side of dying patients who managing to rally at the end to reminisce their life or confess something they had done wrong in the past. After exerting that last amount of energy, they passed away. He said that this was not to uncommon by the old timers in the early year of his profession. Sorry, but I do not remember his name but one might surmise that his statements can be considered historic fact. Thus, the passing verbal account's of Waltz can very well be true! Granted it is hard to say just how long Waltz made his last statements since the story has been compromised by Kennison embellishing Brownie's account of it. 2. It was a common practice in the early days for the pioneers to rise before the sun. October 25, 1891, about 6 A.M. would be about first light. That was about the time the sun started to rise at the Rendezvous this year. As far as Holmes and Roberts loitering around, I would say they were more likely on their way somewhere to do errand's and just happened to run into Julia as she was going to get the doctor. Holmes new Julia for he lives about a block from her place. 3. With Waltz having a nephew that nobody seems to be able to find, ask yourself just how many people were around in the U.S. at that time that NEVER left any account or records of there having ever existed, not to mention people living in the wild west. I have two nephew and 2 nieces but with different last names. If you do not know the genealogical connection you would have a hard time trying to connect them to the Davis Family. Just as with the nephew of Waltz, if he was from a sister, then unless you know his last name, you would have a very hard task in trying to make the connection and that get even harder with fewer documents surviving from that time period. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Greg,

Julia, for me, remains the best source for information on Waltz's character. She mentions his fears, his regrets and the fact that he only returned to the area of his mine one time after his partner's death, and then only to recover the small cache that they had left there.

As for what he might have said the morning he died, she said nothing. Having been with many people in the same situation as Waltz, other than begging for someone to help them, as the end approached they expended most of their efforts in trying to force small breaths into lungs filled with liquid. No doubt that it's possible that Waltz rallied in his last moments, but that seems questionable considering his lingering illness. I have serious doubts that he said anything at all. Those doubts are strengthened by the fact that the story is said to have come from Dick Holmes. Where is the Roberts written account of the events? Even Robert Joseph Allen fails to mention his name in his notorious work of fiction on the LDM. I believe Allen is the first person to mention Holmes being present at Waltz's death.

Take care,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Good morning to you too Gregory ! Was only my opinion and I would say my intuition . And yes are some cases , the most of jealousy or madness , when educated people have kill a family member . I would bet all my money how Waltz wouldn't kill his nephew , if he ever had one .